New ANTIDEPRESSANT: What the article DIDN'T TELL us!~~~~~~~~~~~~

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by fivesue, Nov 6, 2005.

  1. fivesue

    fivesue New Member

    I read an article in USA WEEKEND on new meds that are out and coming out. One was billed as a new drug for depression.

    HOWEVER, when I looked up the drug on the web, it clearly stated it was for major depressive episodes in BI-POLAR patients.I re-read the article and NOT ONCE was bi-polar mentioned. Now, that is deceiving! I have to agree with Alicia on that's looking for more money.

    In fact, on the web site, the self-test they gave was for symptoms of mania rather than symptoms of depression. Nothing was mentioned about depression alone and yet, that is what the article focused on. Title...New For Depression. My guess is there are more people with depression than with bi-polar disease. What do you think?

    So, if you read this article, make sure you keep this in mind. The old saying~~~Don't believe everything you read~~~~seems to be very appropriate in this case. I may write a note to Eli Lily and tell them about this omission and my feelings about their advertising philosophy.



    [This Message was Edited on 11/06/2005]
  2. ksp56

    ksp56 Member

    I am on meds for bipolar that are not advertised as such. Lamictal is for epilepsy, but they found it works for mood stablization in us w/ BP.

    They may have found that this drug not only helps mania, but have good effects on regular depression. You can have manic highs, but also manic depression. The depression is what affects me more than the highs.

    Come to think of it, I am not on any 'traditional' meds for the BP.

    Maybe it's the same way with this new drug as it has been for other ones?

    What is the name of it, Susie? I would be interested in looking it up!

    Have a good evening everyone!

  3. Bambi

    Bambi New Member

    they are using the Omega 3 Fatty Acid meds like Fish Oil for Bipolar and having great success. Here they suggest it WITH the antidepressants. My friend has had so much damage from the antidepressants and Lithium over the years, so she switched to the Fish Oil and takes 10 capsules a day.
    She hasn't had a really bad episode in two years and had before been hospitalized several times and really probably should have been several others.

    They say they give these meds for "chemical embalances" but the fact is
    they don't even know if such things
    exist or WHAT the meds do to help people in depression. They just DO help at least some people so they give them. What the long term results will be for many is anyone's guess.

    I had severe depression after my dad died and Prozac did help with that for me, but later I developed an allergy or ? and got a rare side effect of making my asthma worse. All the others except Trazadone which works so well for me for sleep raised my blood pressure or had other bad side effects.
  4. fivesue

    fivesue New Member

    It is a drug the combines all types of Prozac and Zyprexa...I can't remember the name right now, but I'll look it up and get it to you.

    As I read the "offficial" scoop on this drug, it mentioned that it was contraindicated for just unipolar, depression. So, I can only go with that. I know that I take some anti-seizure meds for anxiety, but very minimal doses. So, I don't know.

    My main complaint is that the article focused on depression when the literature and the web site concentrated soley on bi-polar. That's the catch.

    But, I will find the name...cna't remember it right off, but I think it starts with an S...great help, huh? (-:

  5. jaltair

    jaltair New Member

    4. New for depression: Two drugs in one for treatment-resistant cases

    The drug: Symbyax

    The need: At least 9.9 million Americans suffer from a major depressive disorder. Prozac and its cousins allow many to function without prolonged sadness, but the drugs, called selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs), are no panacea. One in five depressed people remains depressed even after two or more courses of treatment with SSRIs and other antidepressants. Outpatient treatment for this type of patient is at least $6,850 a year -- with no clear way out of the darkness.

    The promise: Symbyax could change that. Produced by Eli Lilly and Company, Symbyax combines two of Lilly's most successful psychotropic medicines -- Prozac and Zyprexa, an anti-psychotic drug. Prozac alone raises the level of serotonin, an essential chemical that helps the brain successfully regulate mood and emotion. The two-drug combination also raises concentrations of two other brain chemicals -- norepinephrine and dopamine -- which the brain uses to achieve a healthy emotional balance. A single pill instead of two may lead patients to take their medications more regularly and save patients money with one co-pay rather than two. This drug is now available.

    Independent verdict: "The combination of Zyprexa and Prozac would be very good for treatment-resistant depression," says Jacob Katzow, a prominent psychopharmacologist and clinical professor of psychiatry at George Washington University School of Medicine and Health Sciences in Washington, D.C. "Both are excellent drugs, and psychiatrists already mix them to treat difficult cases of depression."
  6. fivesue

    fivesue New Member

  7. Bailey-smom

    Bailey-smom New Member

    thing & used for many others.

    We, as FM sufferers, should be used to this by now as there is nothing made just for FM pain specifically. A good example of one would be Neurontin. It is actually an anti-seizure med that is used for nerve pain with some patients.

    I think that it is good that some meds can be used for other treatments and work - it gives people like me optional treatments:)

    I do think they should not be allowed to charge the outragious prices that they do. Right now I have to choose between hiring an assistant - which I really need - or purchasing my meds - which I really need.

  8. ksp56

    ksp56 Member

    Thanks for bumping this for me, my friend!

    I get so confused by all of the meds! My mind becomes muddled and I miss the meaning and content so many times!

    Serazone is a good med. It does cause major weight gain for most. Growlllllllllllllll......

    Speaking of meds; it's time for me to go to my med review! I am so overwhelmed by what I take.. LOL I basically nod my head, if I like what I am hearing!

    Good day to all!


  9. fivesue

    fivesue New Member

    Meds...too many of them go in my mouth. Groan is right.

    I took Serazone for a few months...weight gain, and it also caused my thyroid to go wacko. I'm thinking very seriously about waiting until spring, gutting it out, and trying to go off my AD. Don't kow if it will work, but since I've taken them since 1997, I would like to see what my body's like without. Don't know but I'm contemplating it. Of course, I would only do it with a doctor's help...Effexor is a real horror to stop from all I read and hear.

    I hope ther eview goes well...which doc does it? I hope you are feeling better, also. How's your ankle? Pain in general?

    Talk to you later...

  10. Sunrise2780

    Sunrise2780 New Member

    Hi Fivesue,

    Try to keep in mind the complexity of our illness(es) in the medical profession.

    Meds/treatments are basically trial & error, although a pattern of what is "working" is becoming apparent, but not yet definite.

    Honestly? I don't care what the med "was" used for other than my own personal inquisitiveness.

    Provigil is for Narcolepsy. Adderall is for ADHD - children, teens & adults. Yets they are being used for fatigue and fogginess.

    I don't see anything wrong with the article. Besides, what's more important? What it has found to be good for, or what it was orginally used for?

    As for the prices for meds - I can't include my personal view as I have signed this group's Agreement to not use foul, vulgar, or abusive language. (LOL???)

    BTW, I'm a cat lover too!

  11. fivesue

    fivesue New Member

    LOL! Cute response to drug prices and a cat lover, to boot. Not bad at all.

    I do know that drugs are used for different conditions...label use and off-label use, I think. I just still think that it should have been mentioned that this drug was primarily developed for bi-polar patients. The material even said that it was contraindicated for just depression.

    So, if it can be used for depression, that's fine, but to leave out it's main purpose to me is deceptive.

    I guess we disagree on this, but that's OK with me. You've got a great sense of humor and you love cats! WOW!

  12. penelopeblueyes

    penelopeblueyes New Member

    [This Message was Edited on 11/08/2005]
  13. elliespad

    elliespad Member

    For those interested in an alternative to Prescription Drugs, the following is taken from Dr. Murphees website. I have not previously perused his website, just wanted to find some printed material to share about alternatives to drugs, using Amino Acids. I use all of these on a daily basis for past 4 years with the exception of L-Glutamine. I have never used that. He also states that L-Tryptophan is not available in the U.S. It absolutely is. It is available from many online sources and also by Prescription from compounding pharmacies. Happy reading.

    Brain Function Questionnaire

    Take this questionnaire to find the group you fit into. This information is very useful when making a decision about the correct supplement to take.

    See which brain chemicals (neurotransmitters) you may be low in by taking the quiz below.

    The "S" Group (Serotonin)
    Please note the items which apply to your present feelings:

    It's hard for you to go to sleep.

    You can't stay asleep.

    You often find yourself irritable.

    Your emotions often lack rationality.

    You occasionally experience unexplained tears.

    Noise bothers you more than it used to. It seems louder than normal.

    You "flare up" at others more easily than you used to.

    You experience unprovoked anger.

    You feel depressed much of the time.

    You find you are more susceptible to pain.

    You prefer to be left alone.

    If three or more of the above apply, then read below.

    The "S" Group

    Serotonin is a hypothalamus neurotransmitter which is necessary for sleep to occur. A lack of serotonin causes difficulty in getting to sleep as well as staying asleep.

    It is often this lack of sleep that causes the symptoms mentioned above.

    Serotonin levels can easily be raised by supplementing with the essential amino acid, L-Tryptophan. Dietary supplements of L-Tryptophan are banned in the United States.

    The natural sources of L-Tryptophan include milk, cheese, meat, ham, peanuts, and cottage cheese. All of these are very high in calories and cholesterol content. As a consequence, in order to keep your serotonin supply at a proper level, you must supplement small amounts of food sources of L-Tryptophan with the serotonin production catalysts, calcium, magnesium, and trace element, chromium. 5 Hydroxytryptophan (5HTP) a form of Tryptophan, is available over-the-counter and works extremely well for most patients.

    Peek X Warning

    5HTP is derived from plant sources and when manufactured correctly is incredibly safe. However, some manufacturers try to cut corners and in may produce batches of 5HTP with potentially harmful contaminants, including a substance known as “peak X.”

    Always read the label and make sure the 5HTP you’re taking is certified to be “peak X” free.

    Every batch of Dr. Murphree’s 5HTP is certified to be “peak X” free and says so on every bottle.

    Supplementing with 5HTP

    Start with taking 50mgs 30 minutes before bed. Take on an empty stomach, along with 4 ounces of juice (apple or grape). You may need to increase this dose up to 200mgs a night.

    If you feel hung over the next day, decrease your dose of 5HTP.

    Warning – a few individuals who attempt to take 5HTP at night will have an adverse reaction. Individuals with a sluggish liver (usually more pronounced in CFS) may have trouble breaking down 5HTP fast enough. Instead of making them sleepy, it revs them up and they become more mentally alert.

    If this happens, simply take 1-2 5HTP tablets with food 1-2 times a day and discontinue using it at bedtime on empty stomach.

    Group S Go Here - 5HTP

    The "O" Group (Opiods)

    Do ANY of these apply to your present feelings?

    Your life seems incomplete.

    You feel shy with all but your close friends.

    You have feelings of insecurity.

    You often feel unequal to others.

    When things go right you sometimes feel undeserving.

    You feel something is missing in your life.

    You occasionally feel a low self-worth or esteem.

    You feel inadequate as a person.

    You frequently feel fearful when there is nothing to fear.

    If three or more of the above apply, then read below.

    The "O" Group is named for the Opioid neurotransmitters contained in the Hypothalamus Gland.

    These neurotransmitters have two primary functions:

    1. Opioids are released in small bursts when we feel a sense of urgency (stress). Some individuals thrive on this sense of urgency. They love just meeting deadlines, racing around to get things done. They seem to feed off of this adrenaline rush.

    A sense of urgency can help us get out of bed in the morning or get the kids off to school. However, if you can never turn this sense of urgency off, you’ll eventually deplete the opioids along with other vital hormones including cortisol, and DHEA.

    As a way to turn off the constant mind chatter, those in the “O Group” use stimulants and mind numbing chemicals (alcohol, marijuana, food, etc.) to escape the constant pressure they place on themselves to be more, do more, have more. Type A’s are often overcome by opioid burn out. They cannot sit still. Until one day the bottom falls out and they “just can’t do it anymore.”

    Alcohol and other chemicals can temporarily relieve the anxious feelings associated with opioid overload. They do so by providing artificial opioids. Unfortunately, these artificial opioids also cause the Opioid manufacturing cells in your brain to reduce their output.

    In the long run these cells lose their ability to produce the needed opioid neurotransmitters. You then crave the artificial opioids and an addiction has been born.

    2. When you exercise, your body causes extra quantities of the opioids to be released. This takes away the pain of sore muscles and may provide a feeling of euphoria. Long distance runners and other avid exercise enthusiast are well aware of “The High” that comes from pushing the body past its normal limits. The opioids play an important role in pain modulation.

    A deficiency of opioids can lower our pain threshold. A lowered pain threshold means being more sensitive to painful stimuli.

    DL-Phenylalanine (a special form of the amino acid Phenylalanine) can be extremely helpful in restoring proper opioid levels.

    Supplementing with DL- Phenylalanine (DLPA)

    Start with 1,000mgs, 1-2 times a day, on an empty stomach. If you don’t seem to notice any benefits, keep increasing the dose up to 4,000mgs twice a day.

    If you experience a rapid heartbeat, agitation or hyperactivity, reduce or stop taking DL- Phenylalanine.

    L- Glutamine increases the effectiveness of both DL and L- Phenylalanine.

    Take 500mgs of L- Glutamine 1-2 times a day on an empty stomach along with the DL-Phenyalanine or L-Phenyalanine.

    Both DL and L- Phenylalanine can increase blood pressure. If you already have high blood pressure, consult your doctor before taking either form of Phenylalanine.

    Phenylalanine can be stimulating and shouldn’t be taken past 3 in the afternoon.

    Group O Go Here - DLPA

    The "G" Group (Antianxiety Amino Acids)

    Please note the items which apply to your present feelings:

    You often feel anxious for no reason.

    You sometimes feel "free floating" anxiety.

    You frequently feel "edgy" and it's difficult to relax.

    You often feel a "knot" in your stomach.

    Falling asleep is sometimes difficult.

    It’s hard to turn your mind off when you want to relax.

    You occasionally experience feelings of panic for no reason.

    You often use alcohol or other sedatives to calm down.

    If three or more of the above apply, then read below.

    The "G" group symptoms are from the absence of the neurotransmitter, Gamma Amine Butyric Acid (GABA). GABA is an important neurotransmitter involved in regulating moods and mental clarity.

    Tranquilizers used to treat anxiety and panic disorders work by increasing the GABA.

    GABA is made from the amino acid, Glutamine. Glutamine passes across the blood-brain barrier and helps provide the necessary fuel needed for proper brain function.

    A shortage of L- Glutamine can reduce IQ levels. L- Glutamine supplementation has been shown to increase IQ levels in some mentally deficient children. L- Glutamine is brain fuel. It feeds the brain cells, allowing them to fire on all cylinders. A deficiency in L- Glutamine can result in “foggy thinking” and fatigue.

    Individuals with “Fibro fog” may benefit tremendously from this essential amino acid.

    Even a small shortage of L- Glutamine will produce unwarranted feelings of insecurity and anxiousness. Other symptoms include continual fatigue, depression, and occasionally impotence.

    Supplementing with GABA

    Usually only a small dose of GABA is needed - 500 - 1,000mgs twice a day. Some individuals may need to take GABA 3-4 times a day. Like most amino acids, GABA needs to be taken on an empty stomach.

    Group G Go Here - GABA

    The "D" Group (Dopamine)


    Please note the items which apply to your present feelings:

    You lack pleasure in life.

    You feel there are no real rewards in life.

    You have unexplained lack of concern for others, even loved ones.

    You experience decreased parental feelings.

    Life seems less "colorful" or "flavorful."

    Things that used to be "fun" aren’t any longer enjoyable.

    You have become a less spiritual or socially concerned person.

    If three or more of the above apply then read below.

    The "D" Group

    Dopamine is a neurotransmitter associated with the enjoyment of life, food, arts, nature, your family, friends, hobbies, and other pleasures. The popularity of cocaine (or chocolate) stems from the fact that it causes very high levels of dopamine to be released in a sudden rush.

    This creates a euphoric state. A dopamine deficiency can lead to a condition known as anhedonia.

    Anhedonia is the lack of ability to feel any pleasure or remorse in life (lifeless). It also reduces the person's attention span. For example, a person who has taken cocaine for some time will have used up most of his or her dopamine supply.

    Their attention span is often reduced to 2 to 3 minutes instead of the usual 50 to 60 minutes. Learning, for such a person, is nearly impossible.

    Brain fatigue, confusion, and lethargy are all byproducts of low dopamine. The brain cells which "manufacture" dopamine use the amino acid L-Phenylalanine as the raw material. Like most cells in the hypothalamus, they have the ability to produce 4 or 5 times their usual output if larger quantities of the raw materials (amino acids and their co-factors) are made available through nutritional supplementation.

    Supplementing with L-Phenylalanine

    Start with 1,000mgs, twice a day, taken on an empty stomach. If needed, increase up to 4,000mgs twice a day.

    If you experience a rapid heartbeat, agitation, or hyperactivity, reduce or stop taking L-Phenylalanine.

    L-glutamine increases the effectiveness of both DL and L- Phenylalanine.

    Take 500mgs of L-Glutamine, 1-2 times a day, on an empty stomach.

    Both DL and L-Phenylalanine can increase blood pressure. If you already have high blood pressure, consult your doctor before taking either form of phenylalanine. Phenylalanine can be stimulating and shouldn’t be taken past 3 in the afternoon.

    Group D Go Here - L-Phenylalanine

    The "N" Group (Noriepinephrine)


    Please note the items which apply to your present feelings:

    You suffer from a lack of energy.

    You often find it difficult to "get going."

    You suffer From decreased drive.

    You often start projects and then don't finish them.

    You frequently feel a need to sleep or "hibernate."

    You feel depressed a good deal of the time.

    You occasionally feel paranoid.

    Your survival seems threatened.

    You are bored a great deal of the time.

    If three or more of the above apply, then read below.

    The "N" Group

    The neurotransmitter Norepinephrine, when released in the brain, causes feelings of arousal, energy, and drive. On the other hand, a short supply of it will cause feelings of a lack of ambition, drive, and or energy.

    It can even cause depression, paranoia, and feelings of apathy. Norepinephrine is also used to initiate the "flow" of adrenaline when you are under psychological stress. People under a great load of stress, or a continual stress loading of almost any size, often find their Norepinephrine levels to be too low.

    This is most frequently detected by the "feelings" listed in the questionnaire you have just taken. The production of Norepinephrine in the hypothalamus is a 2-step process. The amino acid, L- Phenylalanine, is first converted into Tyrosine.

    The amino acid, Tyrosine, is then converted into Norepinephrine. In extreme cases L-Tyrosine is supplemented to increase Norepinephrine and Dopamine. However, if the levels of Tyrosine are not low, this can cause headaches. This is why I usually recommend L- Phenylalanine replacement therapy first.

    Supplementing with L-Phenylalanine

    Start with 1,000mgs, twice a day, taken on an empty stomach. If needed, increase up to 4,000mgs twice a day. If you experience a rapid heartbeat, agitation, or hyperactivity - reduce or stop taking L- phenylalanine.

    L-glutamine increases the effectiveness of both DL and L- phenylalanine.

    Take 500mgs of L-glutamine 1-2 times a day, on an empty stomach.

    Both DL and L-phenylalanine can increase blood pressure.

    If you already have high blood pressure, consult your doctor before taking either form of phenylalanine.

    Phenylalanine can be stimulating and shouldn’t be taken past 3 in the afternoon.

    Update - There's an option to L-Phenylalanine

    Recently I've started recommending SAMe instead of L-Phenylalanine because of positive recent studies.

    S-Adenosyl-methionine (SAMe)- is involved in regulating the brains neurotransmitters. Normally the brain manufactures all the SAMe it needs from the amino acid methionine. However low protein diets, malabsorption and deficiencies developed from excess methionine use in certain detoxification pathways can create a need for SAMe replacement. SAMe has been shown through several recent well designed studies to be one of the best natural antidepressants available.

    SAMe helps boost serotonin and epinephrine levels. It also helps increase the production of endorphins. Endorphins are the body’s natural pain blocking chemicals and are more powerful than morphine

    Because it produces quick results, SAMe has been used to hasten the onset of action of the antidepressant imipramine.

    SAMe Helps Boost the Effects of Antidepressants

    Prescription antidepressants fail to work for fifty percent of those take them. One way to boost the beneficial effects of antidepressant medications is to take them with SAMe (S-adenosyl-L-methionine). Research has already shown that SAMe increases both serotonin and noriepinephrine levels (brain chemicals) and is a potent antidepressant by itself. Now researchers have shown that combining SAMe with prescription antidepressants rreduces the failure rate by 43%.

    SAMe has become one of my favorite nutritional supplement. I’m using it more and more in my practice for depression, fatigue, and pain disorders. SAMe elevates endorphin levels.

    SAMe and Fibromyalgia

    Studies involving FMS patients and SAMe have shown dramatic improvements in pain reduction. *One study showed that individuals taking SAMe for a period of 6 weeks had an improvement of 40% in pain reduction and 35% improvement in their depression! (Grassetto & Varotto, 1994, pp. 797-806).

    Jaccobsen S, Danneskiold – Samose B, Anderson RB. Oral s-adenosyl-L-methionine in primary fibromyalgia. Double-blind clinical evaluation. Scandinavian Journal of Rheum 20(4): 294-302, 1991.

    Supplementing with SAMe

    Start with 200mg-400mg taken on an empty stomach in the morning. You can go up to a maximum 1200mg day. Don’t take late in the day. Not everyone will need to take the maximum dose. Take a good optimal daily allowance multivitamin/mineral formula like CFS/Fibro Formula (or something similar) and I also recommend taking adrenal cortex supplements.


    Group N Go Here - L-Phenylalanine


    Group N Option - SAMe Available Here


    Group N - Adrenal Cortex Available Here

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