new to Lyme, old to CFIDS/FM, microscopy?

Discussion in 'Lyme Disease Archives' started by hottea, Oct 30, 2007.

  1. hottea

    hottea New Member

    Hello everyone!

    I am grateful to have found this board. Very.

    I have had CFIDS/FM for over 18 years, but recently had a positive Igenex test. Then I went to a local naturopath, who did a microscopy, looked at my blood while I was there under a high powered microscope.

    She found what she thinks is an actual Lyme spirochette. I have a picture. It is a long spindly stringlike thing with bumps on it. it is very thin compared to a red blood cell, but much longer. it looks similar to but a little different from picture so Lyme spirochettes on the web.

    Has anyone had this done? Does anyone know where to find pictures of these bugs, in there many mutations and forms? I don't totally trust this naturopath, and want to confirm that this is really Lyme before I go all out with treatment, given how sick I already am

    Thanks for any help with this.

  2. mollystwin

    mollystwin New Member

    Did you do a google search for some lyme pictures? I think there are some on youtube. Munch emailed me some a while back, but I can't find the emails. They were videos of actual spirochetes on the internet I think from you tube.

    Try to google, see what you get.

  3. victoria

    victoria New Member

    that is what I'd believe. Whether or not that's really a spirochete in your blood. If it is, that's of course really fascinating actually (to me at least)...

    but remember the spirochetes are not always in the blood anyway, they can go intracellularly deep into tissues anywhere in the body you're genetically susceptible (which is why there are so many different symptoms).

    [This Message was Edited on 10/31/2007]
  4. lefty

    lefty New Member
  5. lefty

    lefty New Member

    many more also google video
  6. hottea

    hottea New Member

    Thank you everyone for responding!

    I have seen the pictures at You Tube. I had another microscopy done this week and there were a lot of spirochettes this time, and they do look identical to some on the net, the ones in the "pearling" form.

    I took Samento for a week prior to try and get them out of my cells. This doc also looked right away, and saw none, but did see cysts in the white boold cells. She then waited 24 hours, and found them. Some were still moving. She says that they leave the cells as the cells were dying.

    I am so surpised that this doc found any at all since I know they are hard to find in the blood, but since this seems for real, maybe it is a good tool for others? It is so definitive. I wonder why other Lyme docs are not using it. It cost me $95.

    It is really creepy to see what they look like and know they are all over inside me....but it will help me to carry on and make it through treatment.

    Best wishes to all,

  7. bikology

    bikology New Member

    Do you know if your doctor used any stains on the blood?
  8. hottea

    hottea New Member

    Looks like I am learning something new and important here. Someone else on another board told me about needing to use stains. I don't think my naturopath did, though I need to call and ask her. I HATE it when alternative docs (or any) pretend to know more than they do and charge through the roof for it. I will ask her and report back in next week.


  9. bikology

    bikology New Member

    I was asking because I have access to a microscope and was going to do this technique myself.

    Looked it up online and looks like you don't have to use a stain, but it makes seeing the buggers much easier. So if the doc saw them without a stain, definitely there. If not, then they could be at a low level.

    We'll see how easy it is to talk the tech into letting me do this at work on Monday.
  10. munch1958

    munch1958 Member

    I'd like to get this done. After watching the documentary
    "Crazy Sexy Cancer" I'd like to see what is floating around in there. Yes, I was grossed out to by the whole spirochete idea.

    Some of these places use the microscope to sell you a bunch of supplements. I just want the report and maybe a videotape of it to show to a pathologist.

    I think it would be helpful to see the enemy.
  11. hottea

    hottea New Member

    Hi everyone,

    I have cut and pasted and a message that I got back from another board about this microsopy. Thsi woman believes that one has to use flourescent light and a special stain to be able to determine if the spirochttes found are Lyme ones or not. I don't think my naturopath did this. I'll ask and find out.

    She took a little blood from the tip of my finger.

    I forget the username for the person who said she had looked up this subject on the net and found out that one can use a stain to help see them (sorry I forgot to check your name...) Could you please let me know what site you found that helps explain this? I am trying to discern how competent this naturopath is and this technique. I definitely have spirochettes in my blood, but maybe they are not borrelia...I sure hope to find out.

    Thanks again for any help!


    >its possible for her to view bacterium or even a type of bacterium, but
    >species has to be determined with specific stains. In other words, she
    >be able to determine a spirochete bacterium, but there are many spirochete
    >bacterium, some harmless, some lethal. A stain will determine which
    >bacterium it is. That's why when they take pictures of lyme, they use
    >fluorescent's and a special stain, so that ONLY the lyme will show under

  12. bikology

    bikology New Member

    It's called acridine orange.

    Here's a link to an article that uses it.
    PMID: 7496935 free full text online.
    [This Message was Edited on 11/04/2007]
  13. hottea

    hottea New Member

    thanks! I will look that up and keep everyone posted.

    Best to you,

  14. hottea

    hottea New Member


    I checked this site, and if I am understanding correctly, this stain is used to help identfy antibodies to borrelia, not to determine if what one sees if a lyme spirochette itself. Is this you understanding? Maybe one does not need a stain or flourescent to see the actual spirochette? I will keep researching.

    Thanks again again for your help!

  15. bikology

    bikology New Member

    The only way to make sure that it's absolutely lyme is to test for a lyme specific protein, the encoding for that protein, or antibodies for one of the lyme specific proteins in the blood.

    To have a dye that just attached to lyme, it'd have to be a fluorescent labeled antibody, probably for one of the surface proteins.

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