Nutritional Supplements by Dr. Sharman

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia and ME & Chronic Fatigue Syndrome' started by LadyCarol, Apr 17, 2013.

  1. LadyCarol

    LadyCarol Member

    One of the most balanced articles on Nutritional Supplements you'll ever read.

    http://www.cll-nhl.com/2013/02/nutritional-supplements.html

    Helpful ?
  2. LadyCarol

    LadyCarol Member

    That book cost around $100 which means most people won't be able to afford to buy it, I certainly won't be buying it. Not "The definitive text." someone else will come along sometime with another money making book, and then another etc.

    Dr. Sharman's advice is free.
  3. LadyCarol

    LadyCarol Member

    That book cost around $100 which means most people won't be able to afford to buy it, I certainly won't be buying it. Not "The definitive text." someone else will come along sometime with another money making book, and then another etc.

    Dr. Sharman's advice is free.
  4. IanH

    IanH Active Member

    the standard pharmacology course text at the moment. You will not find a more thorough text.

    Free advice that is not relevant is not much use though.
  5. IanH

    IanH Active Member

    the standard pharmacology course text at the moment. You will not find a more thorough text.

    Free advice that is not relevant is not much use though.
  6. LadyCarol

    LadyCarol Member

    >> Free advice that is not relevant is not much use though.
    WRONG and WRONG again

    Dr. Sharman's advice IS relevant and is a very valuable source of information.
  7. LadyCarol

    LadyCarol Member

    >> Free advice that is not relevant is not much use though.
    WRONG and WRONG again

    Dr. Sharman's advice IS relevant and is a very valuable source of information.
  8. ameilie73

    ameilie73 Member

    It was an interesting read thanks for that. For me, i wouldnt say it was a balanced article on supplements.

    To much water and oxygen can kill you, to little sugar can cause brain damage, none of these i would consider to be supplements Gosh, I think id be up the creek without a paddle if i did ;-)

    It mentions how the lines between natural and prescribed are blurred, saying the is a chemo drug that is of natural properties. Bit like willow bark extract is aspirin, (i think thats right) you know what i mean though.

    Ive never heard of Aristrolochia, so i looked it up it is a plant the chinese used it to expel the placenta because it looked like the uterus, and caused urothelial cancer which was treated with arsenic. But the west seems to know the toxicity of the plant. On a personal level with regards to chinese medicine, my sister went to them when my nephew had really bad ezema
    and they gave her a concortion of stuff and it did work. And i said to her how on earth do you even know what your putting on him. So she took the stuff to the doctirs turns out it had steroids in, the one thing she was trying to avoid.

    I mean it seems like everything in moderation to me, and it is aimed at concerns regarding things interacting with chemo. Even the grapefruit which he says affects liver enzymes and cause drug toxins to build up in your system, interesting, but thats if you go on a grapefruit juice diet. I mean i like grapefruit, but just drinking a diet of it? Puts my teeth on edge.

    Again he gpes in to tobacco and how that can affect lung cancer treatment.

    See i understand where his coming from.

    He talks about St Johns Wort causing sunburn, but some of the older antidepressants have the same warning, i think one doesnt allow you to eat cheese, but cheese in of itself in moderation, i dont think will kill you, but hey lets wait to see what next weeks headlines say lol.
    He ends with saying FDA drugs have been approved. But heres the imbalance, some FDA drugs have been approved but like most with no idea of the long term side effects, then they end up getting withdrawn, or else accompanied with quite horrendous leaflet of side effects which could actually put you off of taking them. Some antidepressants cause depression and suicidal thoughts. Its all swings and roundabouts.

    what i find most interesting is Im wondering what you are searching for LadyCarol, do you have concerns about supplements, is there something you could ask that we might or might not be able to help you with, I feel theres something your trying to get at or something you are searching for but im kind of unsure what it is? Im seeing these posts, and i feel like your aiming for something, are you just warey of supplements?Nothing wrong with that if you are, I dont know...i mean im not always the sharpest tool in the box So maybe if you just say it, I'd understand :)


    Many Thanks

    Ameile


    [This Message was Edited on 04/21/2013]
    [This Message was Edited on 04/21/2013]
    [This Message was Edited on 04/21/2013]
  9. ameilie73

    ameilie73 Member

    It was an interesting read thanks for that. For me, i wouldnt say it was a balanced article on supplements.

    To much water and oxygen can kill you, to little sugar can cause brain damage, none of these i would consider to be supplements Gosh, I think id be up the creek without a paddle if i did ;-)

    It mentions how the lines between natural and prescribed are blurred, saying the is a chemo drug that is of natural properties. Bit like willow bark extract is aspirin, (i think thats right) you know what i mean though.

    Ive never heard of Aristrolochia, so i looked it up it is a plant the chinese used it to expel the placenta because it looked like the uterus, and caused urothelial cancer which was treated with arsenic. But the west seems to know the toxicity of the plant. On a personal level with regards to chinese medicine, my sister went to them when my nephew had really bad ezema
    and they gave her a concortion of stuff and it did work. And i said to her how on earth do you even know what your putting on him. So she took the stuff to the doctirs turns out it had steroids in, the one thing she was trying to avoid.

    I mean it seems like everything in moderation to me, and it is aimed at concerns regarding things interacting with chemo. Even the grapefruit which he says affects liver enzymes and cause drug toxins to build up in your system, interesting, but thats if you go on a grapefruit juice diet. I mean i like grapefruit, but just drinking a diet of it? Puts my teeth on edge.

    Again he gpes in to tobacco and how that can affect lung cancer treatment.

    See i understand where his coming from.

    He talks about St Johns Wort causing sunburn, but some of the older antidepressants have the same warning, i think one doesnt allow you to eat cheese, but cheese in of itself in moderation, i dont think will kill you, but hey lets wait to see what next weeks headlines say lol.
    He ends with saying FDA drugs have been approved. But heres the imbalance, some FDA drugs have been approved but like most with no idea of the long term side effects, then they end up getting withdrawn, or else accompanied with quite horrendous leaflet of side effects which could actually put you off of taking them. Some antidepressants cause depression and suicidal thoughts. Its all swings and roundabouts.

    what i find most interesting is Im wondering what you are searching for LadyCarol, do you have concerns about supplements, is there something you could ask that we might or might not be able to help you with, I feel theres something your trying to get at or something you are searching for but im kind of unsure what it is? Im seeing these posts, and i feel like your aiming for something, are you just warey of supplements?Nothing wrong with that if you are, I dont know...i mean im not always the sharpest tool in the box So maybe if you just say it, I'd understand :)


    Many Thanks

    Ameile


    [This Message was Edited on 04/21/2013]
    [This Message was Edited on 04/21/2013]
    [This Message was Edited on 04/21/2013]
  10. IanH

    IanH Active Member

    I do think his discussion is relevant but while the examples given have some relevance to oncological therapy (which is his aim), some of them seem a little obscure and generally the relevance to most people on PH with ME/CFS/FM forum is low.

    He also exhibits the usual bias against people taking some responsibility for their own health improvement. The following statements attest to this:

    ". . . I think self-treatment through use of supplements can often provide an aura of control that really appeals to quite a few patients or their loved ones."

    -an aura of control??? This is very condescending because it is trite and ignorant. Most people do not supplement to get a sense or aura of control but to improve their health and prevent worsening health.

    " . . .I recognize this is a “near-religious” topic for many. . .. . my intent is not to offend ...."

    A sure way to offend is to say that the taking of nutritional supplements is a religion and that people are stuck to them with blind faith.

    " . . . Let’s start with the admission that EVERYTHING that we encounter is a “drug.”

    Well, this is a position he takes to support his bias. Everything is NOT a drug. This is nonesense!


    ". . . I would also point out that these compounds were then subjected to many years of intensive, focused research and clinical development that refined and re-refined the precursor compounds into validated effective therapies. When you take one of these drugs, you know what you are getting.

    Most drugs are taken to alleviate pain and many of these are off-label. Almost all drugs given for FM and ME/CFS are off-label. So they have not been validated into effective therapies. Even when these drugs are given credence by the FDA, such as with Duloxetine for FM the validation and side effect consequences have not been tested and are often not discussed with the patient - even worse with amitryptiline. There is no more validation for some of these drugs than there is for some of the supplements taken for ME/CFS or FM.

    There has been more research into the effects, dosing, contra-indications and metabolism of vitamin D3 than many drugs (pharmaceuticals). Yet we hear so many people like Dr. Sharman dismissing this nutrient and causing iatrogenic consequences.

    My point about relevance is this:

    The most commonly taken supplements are:

    Omega-3 fatty acids (from fish oils)
    Glucosamine
    Echinacea
    Flaxseed oil
    Ginseng
    vitamin C
    Calcium

    He does not discuss these, so he is not very relevant for most people.

    People do need to think about interactions with drugs they may be taking but if the prescriber had better knowledge and a better attitude towards supplements there would be less secrecy. Many physicians will dismiss supplementation when the patient mentions it. Quite often the patient knows that the doctor knows very little and is behaving defensively rather than being an advocate of the patient.

    Dr. Sharman mentions nothing about deficiencies, the relevance of deficiences, beliefs about deficiences and the arguable measures of deficiencies. This is a very relevant topic which causes some conflict.

    So, overall, while worth a read, I would give him 7 out of 10 for people with cancer but 2 out of 10 for everyone else.
  11. IanH

    IanH Active Member

    I do think his discussion is relevant but while the examples given have some relevance to oncological therapy (which is his aim), some of them seem a little obscure and generally the relevance to most people on PH with ME/CFS/FM forum is low.

    He also exhibits the usual bias against people taking some responsibility for their own health improvement. The following statements attest to this:

    ". . . I think self-treatment through use of supplements can often provide an aura of control that really appeals to quite a few patients or their loved ones."

    -an aura of control??? This is very condescending because it is trite and ignorant. Most people do not supplement to get a sense or aura of control but to improve their health and prevent worsening health.

    " . . .I recognize this is a “near-religious” topic for many. . .. . my intent is not to offend ...."

    A sure way to offend is to say that the taking of nutritional supplements is a religion and that people are stuck to them with blind faith.

    " . . . Let’s start with the admission that EVERYTHING that we encounter is a “drug.”

    Well, this is a position he takes to support his bias. Everything is NOT a drug. This is nonesense!


    ". . . I would also point out that these compounds were then subjected to many years of intensive, focused research and clinical development that refined and re-refined the precursor compounds into validated effective therapies. When you take one of these drugs, you know what you are getting.

    Most drugs are taken to alleviate pain and many of these are off-label. Almost all drugs given for FM and ME/CFS are off-label. So they have not been validated into effective therapies. Even when these drugs are given credence by the FDA, such as with Duloxetine for FM the validation and side effect consequences have not been tested and are often not discussed with the patient - even worse with amitryptiline. There is no more validation for some of these drugs than there is for some of the supplements taken for ME/CFS or FM.

    There has been more research into the effects, dosing, contra-indications and metabolism of vitamin D3 than many drugs (pharmaceuticals). Yet we hear so many people like Dr. Sharman dismissing this nutrient and causing iatrogenic consequences.

    My point about relevance is this:

    The most commonly taken supplements are:

    Omega-3 fatty acids (from fish oils)
    Glucosamine
    Echinacea
    Flaxseed oil
    Ginseng
    vitamin C
    Calcium

    He does not discuss these, so he is not very relevant for most people.

    People do need to think about interactions with drugs they may be taking but if the prescriber had better knowledge and a better attitude towards supplements there would be less secrecy. Many physicians will dismiss supplementation when the patient mentions it. Quite often the patient knows that the doctor knows very little and is behaving defensively rather than being an advocate of the patient.

    Dr. Sharman mentions nothing about deficiencies, the relevance of deficiences, beliefs about deficiences and the arguable measures of deficiencies. This is a very relevant topic which causes some conflict.

    So, overall, while worth a read, I would give him 7 out of 10 for people with cancer but 2 out of 10 for everyone else.
  12. IanH

    IanH Active Member

    But not a general advisory on supplementation. The focus is too narrow.
    Read "Herb, Nutrient and Drug Interactions" by By Jonathan Treasure, Dwight L. McKee, M.D.

    The definitive text.