Obsessive thoughts ruining sleep

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by teranan, May 21, 2003.

  1. teranan

    teranan New Member

    Obsessive thoughts ruining sleep Does anyone else do this? I know racing brain has been talked about. I think this is different. Its like before bed I get my mind on a thing,usually something negative. I start to obsess about it blow it way out of proportion and I'm wide awake. It does'nt happen often thank goodness.It ruins my sleep for the night. Ambien won't work when this happens. Is this part of this DD. or my own little private phycosis? I know we all have sleep problems. Just wondering Pleasent Dreams?----Terry
  2. aryiella

    aryiella New Member

    I have the same problem. Not every night, but enough. It's usually something that happened during the day that bothered me that I can't let go of. An unpleasant conversation or situation with someone usually, or sometimes it's one of those "conversations I have with myself" over and over again that never get solved. Even if this doesn't happen to me and I'm able to fall asleep ok, I still wake up quite a few times during the night. I wish I could get control of my brain! I've thought about looking into meditation. I don't know what to do. I have a tendency towards obsessing about some stuff though.

    Ambien didn't work for me and Klonopin helped somewhat initially, but it's effectiveness has wore off, and I didn't want to keep upping the dose.

    Holly
  3. Shirl

    Shirl New Member

    What you are talking about has been a problem with me almost all my adult life. Mine is consistent, no let up when I lay down to sleep.
    During the day I am find, but all I need to do is try to sleep and thats when the 'thoughts' start running.

    I could honestly write a book! Its not exactly like Holly said, its more of the true racing brain syndrome, its not now and them when something happens, but every night.

    It could be a book I read, something that happened in my childhood, a post I read on the board, conversation I had with someone, a song , etc. Not necessarily negative, just racing thoughts, and they usually stay on the same subject for hours!

    The only thing that is helping me is Xanax, 0.25 milligrams at about 7pm at night (I have been taking this same dosage for 15 years, never had to up the dosage. I only take 1/2 this amount during the day if I feel an anxiety attack coming on which does not happen often).
    Then I take ZMA (zinc, magnesium, vitamin B-6) at 10pm
    and a 3milligram Melatonin right before bed.

    This nightly 'cocktail' really works for me. Since adding the ZMA last year, I am now sleeping deeply for 7-8 hours at night. Before this, I would wake up 10 to 20 times a night! Right, I did not get any sleep to talk about.

    I know others take Klonopin and it works for them with racing brain.

    Is it part of FM? I don't know, I had this way before I had FM. Doctors had no idea what I was talking about when I tried to explain it to them.

    Hope this helps a little, and I do hope you get over it and get your much needed sleep!

    Shalom, Shirl





  4. judywhit

    judywhit New Member

    this is a plague if you ask me and yes I have it too. Mine is not so much negative thoughts but my mind is working all the time. I feel for you! I do not think there are any easy answers! sorry I could not be of much help just wanted you to know you are not alone!
    Judy
  5. layinglow

    layinglow New Member

    The name for this is not called obsessive thoughts, but is called Perseveration.
    It's the persistence of a single thought. It takes place in the frontal lobe. Racing Brain on the other hand is every bit as overwhelming, the difference being that the subject matter one is thinking changes from one thing to another rapidly. This is one reason that klonopin works so well on this type of thing, is because it keeps the neurons from firing away on these regions.

    Here are some other things that take place in the frontal lobe and you will see many that are symptomatic of FM/CFS.

    · Loss of simple movement of various body parts (Paralysis).
    · Inability to plan a sequence of complex movements needed to complete multi-stepped tasks, such as making coffee (Sequencing).
    · Loss of spontaneity in interacting with others.
    · Loss of flexibility in thinking.
    · Persistence of a single thought (Perseveration).
    · Inability to focus on task (Attending).
    · Mood changes (Emotionally Labile).
    · Changes in social behavior.
    · Changes in personality.
    · Difficulty with problem solving.
    · Inablility to express language (Broca's Aphasia).

    What you are experiencing is common in fms and cfs, as are these other symptoms above, originating in the same area.

    Klonopin is one of the highest recommended drugs to help with this, and it does. SSRI's can help as well.....I take both. There are those like Dr. Chaney that recommend we stop these neurons from firing away, like this, as it eventually causes damaged neurons, that wont fire. He recommends Klonopin, with a starting dose, of I believe .5 mg. at bedtime. You might look at his article on this in the library, here.
    LL


    [This Message was Edited on 05/21/2003]
  6. billiegail

    billiegail New Member

    I am the same as Shirl.
    My mind is like a disco ball. You know how it spins and spins and you see all these little sparkles popping out here and there. Well mine mind is the ball itself and I have all this information that is running at the same time and then there are those like the sparkles that jump out all the time.
    It is exausting.
    I always tell everyone that the reason I have memory loss is because my brain is full and everytime I take in more information, some spills out and the new takes it's place.
    My brain is overflowing!
    hehehe
    God bless
  7. Shirl

    Shirl New Member

    The 'Disco Ball' sure sums it up! My husband and kids always tells me that I read too much, watch too much of the News, etc. Thats why my brain is always in high gear!

    Wait till I tell them you compared it to a Disco Ball, that one will really go over big around here, it may even bounce with all the sparkles flying! :).

    Shalom, Shirl
  8. Dara

    Dara New Member

    me awake at night. Physically I can be exhausted but my brain just won't shut up... Sometimes it's over something that has happened or been said, a song I keep singing in my head over and over, and sometimes just out of the blue it's like I'm actually reading a book, it that isn't OCD I don't know what else you would call it. Now, what has helped me tremendously is Effexor XR 150mg. I now can lay down and fall asleep within two to three minutes. This is something I have never been able to do. Even as a child I would lay awake half the night thinking, fretting, anything to keep from falling asleep it seems. Maybe other things will work better for you, but for me Effexor has been a godsend.

    Dara
  9. jami117

    jami117 New Member

    I share your problem of a brain that shifts into over-drive when I lie down to sleep. I found that I had to cut off the thoughts before they got started. I'm a big fan of mysteries. I now keep several mystery books on tape from my library on hand at all times. I turn on the story as I'm getting ready for bed so when I lie down I'm already engrossed. My tape machine, which is by my bed, shuts off automatically when the tape ends. These days I don't even get through one side before I'm asleep. But even on rough nights, I prefer going through a couple of tapes to lying awake worrying!! If you're housebound you might check with your state library to see if they have a program so they could mail you the tapes. Most library catalogs are on the web, so you can do your "shopping" that way and put a hold on the tapes you want to get. I hope this might be helpful. Wishing you all a peaceful night's sleep! Jami
  10. kar1953

    kar1953 New Member

    I, too, have the problem of my mind just won't quit when I try to sleep. Not negative things, but anything. My mind jumps from one thing to another - a conversation I had earlier in the day, a TV program I watched, a song I heard, some activity I did that day. I have even written chapters to novels in my mind! If I could only remember what my mind wrote the next morning I'd have a new career!:)

    I take 10mg. of Klonopin immediately before I go to bed & I only have to listen to my mind about 10-15 min. & I'm gone. I used to wake up 2-3 times with 5 mg. so doc upped it to 10mg. & now I have had 3 nights in the last week that I slept straight through - haven't done that for several years. I think it's a combination of the Klonopin & my high calcium supplement that is improving my sleep. Before Klonopin &/or calcium I used to wake up 6-8 times a night.

    I firmly believe getting proper sleep can do wonders for improving your health - mentally & physically. I'm living proof!

    Hope you find some relief.

    Take care........Kathi
  11. teranan

    teranan New Member

    You've all given me a lot of good information. Yes I know sleep is key to getting this DD more manageable. I'm really exhausted today so I'll just thank you again and I will use your info. to improve my sleep. Let you know what I've tried--Terry
  12. judywhit

    judywhit New Member

    last night my 17yr old daughter and i got in a mother daughter spat. I am the stupid one! this was about 10pm i was really trying to avoid her this late a night but she hit me with one of those conversations telling me "what she is going to do" and my response is over my dead body. I then came and read posts here and answered a few. so when I made it to bed I was having the discussion with my dauther still in my head but...I was typing it to her on a keyboard in the sky. I could make out every letter word and finger placement. My spelling was even better. How sad!
    Judy
  13. pam_d

    pam_d New Member

    ...I had a boyfriend in college who used to describe it this way: "you lay down in bed, you shut your eyes---and then the movie starts rolling". And, unfortunately, you can't turn it off. I have had nights like this, but not too often. But I know what you mean about it ruining your sleep. Hopefully, some suggestions offered here will be of help. I usually just resign myself to a sleepless night, but I'm not often plagued by this, & when I am, usually function OK the next day----but I couldn't if I had night after night like this!

    Hope it gets better for you!

    Hugs,
    Pam
  14. Princessraye

    Princessraye New Member

    I used to do that and this helped me to a great degree. I have a time set aside for worrying,rumintating,whatever. I would say for example 6 to 7 PM was my time. So when a thought would come in my head I would say to myself oh I can think about that at 6PM. The funny thing is sometimes 6pm would come and I would be doing something else and forget to worry. So I would look up and say oh it's 7:15 , oh well I will have to worry tomorrow at 6PM. It didn't always work, but I did a pretty good job using this technique.
    I hope you find something that helps.
  15. Cara-Sue

    Cara-Sue New Member

    i have this too,i just figured i was going slowly nuts and i havent told anyone about it.i have learned when i go to bed i make up a "neverending story" in my head.i find this works the best.i'm not sure what you call it.
    i also have the worse panic thoughts like imagining my son getting hit by a car and me running towards him ect.i can play the whole thing in my head then end up not being able to breath cause i'm so scared.they arent fun.dont know that they mean.
    and then we have daytime...i will be doing housework or what ever and start thinking about say,some movie star and who she is dating,what they do on a date ect.ect.ect.it's like obsessive thinking,i dont know.
    havent been to the dr over this,he thinks im nuts over having fibro,i figure he would send me away to the loony farm over this too.
    i feel so glad we are alike on so much in this group,i dont feel ashamed anymore or feel like a freak.
    big hugs for everyone today!;)
    cara-sue
  16. NewEnglander

    NewEnglander New Member

    Terry
    My son was diagnosed with Ocd(tourettes as well) and I act the same as him.(ocd wise) Bed time was a really stressful time for me. It was like my graveyard shift. I would get really stressed and my mind would race. I was just so uncomfortable. borderline panic. Klonopin has been a God send to me. I take two at night and stay very calm, relaxed, which helps with pain. then I sleep. Talk to your doctor. I don't know if its ocd thing or not. It could just be nerves. I never understood it, just knew I was uncomfortable. I never watch anything upsetting on tv before bedtime, I try to relax at night. unwind
    Good Luck
    Lisa
    [This Message was Edited on 05/24/2003]
  17. SheriAL

    SheriAL New Member

    Paxil is the only ssri or drug that works for obsessive thoughts..It is just a problem with the brain and an imbalance that causes it, it can run in families just as panic attacks run in families and other disorders..
    I am not giving answers for you or to try paxil but it really does help with that disorder..Just like someone who goes back to the closet to make sure they shut the door three times or more, or to straighten the towell over and over or repetition of thoughts or doing things..It will wear you out, won't it?
    Sheri
  18. teranan

    teranan New Member

    Just wanted to say I finally got some restful sleep. I think it was from exhaustion. Its like a different world with sleep.I will definetly ask my Dr about Klonopin. I got a cold probably from a lower immune from lack of sleep. Its somehow comforting in a way to know were all alot alike But would'nt it be nice if it was something good? Any more having way too much going on in their heads at bedtime? Pleasant Dreams--Terry
  19. SheriAL

    SheriAL New Member

    Terri
    Do you or anyone that might see Dr. Cheney or Dr Lapp know if the klonopin has to be increased to it not working at lower dosages as time goes by?
    I really would like to go up on my dosage but it scares me to think about it..as I seemed to have a problem trying to come off just one half of l mg last year..
    What do you or others know about it.
    Sheri in AL
  20. MemoryLane

    MemoryLane Member

    My understanding is that at the .5mg dose, 1.5mg should be the total maximum dose for those being treated for anxiety and panic. You have to increase slowly and decrease slowly since it is an anti-convulsant. However, in my experience the addition of Neurontin in conjunction with Klonopin has been a good combo therapy. It is well-tolerated by most and considered a better choice by some doctors. They can always increase the dose on Neurontin, without the worries that the Klonopin causes. Many doctors don't like Klonopin and find that our system adapts to it too readily and they fear dependance or addiction. It is absorbed and assimilated into your body very quickly and practically none of it in excess is excreted in your urine (less than 5% or so).

    Hope this helps,
    Lane

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