OK I have the Methylation supplements (Almost) Now What?

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by niceguy11, May 6, 2008.

  1. niceguy11

    niceguy11 New Member

    Hi All

    I have the five supplemrnts ordered and I will start the protocol immedietely

    I plan on starting this way

    continue to use

    wheatgrass juice every other day

    A Liver Formula called liver support factors by BioChem daily

    B Complex daily

    Raw Juices daily

    Here is how I thought I would begin

    (1) Start with the MultiVit for three days to a week to lay a foundation one or two a day

    (2)Then add in
    A small amount of each of the supplements until I am using them all together in small amoounts

    (3) Then increase the amount of each until I am using them all at the full amount together

    I am open to suggestion though

    Which would be the best to start with?

    How would you do it diffently?

    I've read one or two post on how approach it step by step but I thought I would ask for more information from you guys

    Thanks again really appreciate it


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  2. frosty77

    frosty77 New Member

    Be very careful with supplements - either fully research their contraindications and/or ask your doctor.

    Unfortunately, lots of them interact badly with anti-depressants and other medication such as that for high blood pressure.
  3. Diva55

    Diva55 New Member

    Uou might want to change the title of this post to Methylation Supplements - seems people are confused about what you are starting
  4. niceguy11

    niceguy11 New Member


  5. deliarose

    deliarose New Member

    get some activated charcoal.

    Once you support your methylation cycle, you may find your liver dumping toxins into your bloodstream (or is it intestine?) well somewhere anyway.

    This usually happens at 4/5 a.m. in teh morning and you need some activated charcoal to mop it up, absorb it, so that it gets excreted and not recycled.

    Nature's Way is the recommended brand. Dirt cheap from any online supplement store.

    I wouldn't be without it.

  6. mbofov

    mbofov Active Member

    I think it's fine to start them all together, but the dosage is very important. When you talk about the "full amount", I presume you mean the 1/4 tablet of the folapro and intrinsiB12 - it is a small amount, but that is the recommended starting amount. It was enough to cause a rather strong detox reaction for me and several other people. This is the amount I have been using on and off for several months, have not been able to get past this dose because the detox is too strong.

    So you need to see how you react to these supplements. If you have no reaction to the 1/4 tablet doses, then I would increase it very gradually until you do. And some people have had to cut back to less than a 1/4 tablet.

    Also, I strongly recommend you get some molybdenum. It really helped me with detoxing. If you do a search for molybdenum on this board, you will find several posts about it. I take two 250 mcg. tablets a day from Douglas Labs - I buy it from House of Nutrition on-line; several people use molyb drops.

    Also, as someone else said, activated charcoal is good to have on hand to help with intestinal upsets.

    Good luck and keep us posted how you do!

  7. niceguy11

    niceguy11 New Member

    I'll probably use the Molyebdenum

    I'll keep everyone posted as I go

  8. Forebearance

    Forebearance Member

    Good luck and happy detoxing!

    Some love activated charcoal. I use soluble fiber and enzymes when I have stomach issues from detox.

    Before I figured out what helps me, I ate cold cereal (the fiber in it helped).

    I hate to tell you this, but I think you'll have to stop taking your B complex vitamin, if it has B12 and folic acid in it. You don't want to be taking forms of those vitamins that compete with the ones in the methylation supps, Rich says.

    Is folic acid one of the B vitamins?

    I wish I could find a B complex without B12 and folic acid in it. Does anyone know of one? I've been taking B's individually, which is a pain.

  9. Diva55

    Diva55 New Member

    Hi Forebearance
    You mentioned about not taking a Vitamin B Complex. I'm a bit confused as I only starting taking this recently as I've added in Sam-E.

    I THINK I got this snippet off the boards but can't remember from where!

    "Interestingly, SAM-e breaks down into the potentially harmful homocysteine, which has recently made press as a substance strongly correlated with heart disease if it is left to build up within your cells. The good news is that SAM-e, which is so good for you does NOT have to turn into a toxic build-up of homocysteine.

    With the proper complement of B-complex vitamins (especially B-6, B-12 and folic acid, which are all methyl-donors), homocysteine is re-methylated into good old methionine (used to produce S-Adenosyl Methionine) or convert to the antioxidant glutathione. People taking SAM e should be well advised to supplement with B vitamins. This will ensure adverse reactions and prevent homocysteine build-up".

    Do I need to stop B Complex & what do I substitute it with to prevent homocysteine buildup?

    I hope you're well.

    Best wishes
  10. Forebearance

    Forebearance Member

    I don't know, Diva. I'm only repeating what Rich has said. Right now I'm taking B6 as an individual vitamin. I haven't been taking any more B12 or folic acid than what I get from the methylation supplements.

    But then I do eat fortified cold cereal. Hmmmm.

    I don't know if that's the absolutely correct thing to do or not. It is just my impression of what I should do from reading Rich's comments over the months. Maybe somebody else will have an opinion about it.

    Thanks, I'm hanging in there. I'm packing, which is very challenging.

  11. deliarose

    deliarose New Member

    I think most B complex vitamins include some folic acid.

    On this protocol you don't want to take folic acid becuase it competes with the other forms of folate --5 L methyl tetrahydrolate (Folapro) and folinic acid for absorption or take up or something...

    The B12 is not a problem. Yasko seems to be in favour of lots of that... and all forms.. subject to tolerance and your genetics.

    Some SNPs use up B12 fast....
  12. Diva55

    Diva55 New Member

    Hi Forebearance
    Thanks for your thoughts - do you use Sam-E?
    Good luck with your packing. I hope things get easier for you in the not too distant future.

    Hi Deliarose
    I checked the B Complex & it had 400mcg Folic Acid in it.
    I'm not sure what to do here as Sam-E does call for a B complex but I doubt if you can get one without Folic.

    So what do you take to compliment Sam-E? What do you take?

    I take Perque B12, Dibencozide, Pantothenic Acid & Panthetine but I don't think they don't cover all the B's in a B complex. But is that enough to take to counteract Sam-E?

    Very confusing!!

    Best wishes

    [This Message was Edited on 05/09/2008]
  13. deliarose

    deliarose New Member

    Yeah, it is confusing.
    I just stopped taking a b complex cos i didn't want the folic acid.
    If I recall correctly, folic acid can be excitatory under certain conditions in PWCs.. according to yasko that is.

    The longer yasko protocol calls for you to take the B Vits individually... benfotiamine.. (B1) and niacinamide (B3 or is it 2) ..etc..

  14. Diva55

    Diva55 New Member

    Hi Delia
    Oh MORE money buying all those extras!
    Not sure what to do - drop Sam-E? another quandary!

    Best wishes
  15. Forebearance

    Forebearance Member

    Thanks for clearing that up, delia.

    Someone needs to make a B complex vitamin for people doing the simplified methylation protocol!

    Thanks, Diva! I guess it is just me who must avoid the other forms of B-12, because they disagree with me.

    I don't take Sam-E, because it disagrees with me.


    [This Message was Edited on 05/10/2008]
  16. Scapper

    Scapper New Member

    NG -- how are you doing on the protocol so far?

    Just wondering if Rich might catch his name in the title and clear up the Sam-E reacting w/ folic acid issue raised above?

    I'm currently take Sam-e.....however, as of now, I've had to discontinue the protocol due to heavy detox.....which I still can't seem to get under control.

    So, just wondering how Sam-e alone would affect homocysteine levels w/o B's?

  17. woofmom

    woofmom New Member

    I wonder if Sam E and the protocol mixed together are a bit too much to handle.
  18. Diva55

    Diva55 New Member

    Hi woofmom
    When Rich & Trina came up with the original simplified protocol they included Sam-E along with the "Basic 5".

    Then Rich put in a rider saying only if you tolerate Sam-E as apparently some people cannot.

    I only bought it to give it a try as it seemed a good addition (especially as it was included in the original protocol).

    But the Vitamin B complex has thrown a spanner in the works now!

    Hope Rich can shed some light on this as it's too expensive and too many pills to swallow to get the different components of the B Complex to avoid the folic acid!

    Best wishes
  19. richvank

    richvank New Member

    Hi, all.

    As you may know, I can't give individual treatment advice unless a physician is directly involved. However, I will note that the B vitamins are included in the multi that is part of the simplified treatment approach, so if one takes the multi, one will be getting the B vitamins. I think the levels will be adequate, even if SAMe is added to the protocol, because the protocol will be working to lift the block in the methylation cycle, which will lower homocysteine if it is high.

    The general advice that is given about SAMe and homocysteine does not assume that the person is on the methylation block protocol. It applies in cases in which SAMe is taken by itself, and in such cases, it is possible that homocysteine could go too high, which could cause heart disease and other problems, if there is a deficiency in B6, B12, and folate. TMG or betaine is sometimes also included in this advice, because it, too, will help to lower homocysteine. But with the methylation block protocol, one is already treating the methylation cycle block and lowering the homocysteine level.

    The reason Amy Yasko has recommended not taking additional folic acid with this type of treatment is that all forms of folate are imported into the intestinal cells from the diet and oral supplements using the same transporter proteins. They therefore compete with each other for absorption. In people with the genetic polymorphisms that are found in CFS and autism, there are problems in converting folic acid to the active form 5-methyltetrahydrofolate. This requires sequential reactions by the enzymes DHFR, SHMT, and MTHFR, and one or more of them often have polymorphisms in these people. That's the reason for giving 5-methyltetrahydrofolate (FolaPro) as a supplement. If too much folic acid is taken together with FolaPro, the transporters may not import enough FolaPro. Many PWCs have levels of folic acid in their blood serum that are already above the normal range, because their bodies are not able to do the conversion well, so it's important to get more FolaPro in, and less folic acid, in these cases.


  20. Diva55

    Diva55 New Member

    Hi Rich

    Many thanks for your reply & clearing up the confusion for me about Sam-E.

    Thanks also for the info on folic acid.
    Seems strange that Sarah Myhill includes folic & folinic in her version of the Methylation Protocol

    Actually I wonder why she was allowed to call it the Simplified Methylation Protocol when she doesn’t actually include the supplements that make up the protocol!

    I tried to get into her site to check the actual supplements she includes but the site is down.

    Thanks again & hope you are well

    Best wishes

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