OMG! Aurora, CO Shooting

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by Mikie, Jul 19, 2012.

  1. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    I woke to the news and found out that a movie theater near where I once lived had a shooter who killed 12 people during a midnight showing of the new Batman movie. I've been to movies there. I lived there in a condo more than 20 yrs. ago right after my divorce. It was a decent neighborhood but just north of there, where the shooter evidently lives, is a rough place with gangs. It's always such a shock when something like this happens but when it's right where one lived, it's even more shocking.

    My prayers go out to everyone involved.

    Love, Mikie
  2. TwoCatDoctors

    TwoCatDoctors New Member

    I woke up to HLN and CNN with news of this shooting too. The shooter not only set off tear gas, but the shooter then used 4 guns, including an assault rifle, and the shots he fired inside the one theatre of a multiplex went through the wall into the next theatre and hit people there also watching the new Batman movie.

    Don't look now, but I saw a news report label this horrible tragedy as a "Columbine." I truly don't want to see the press drag Columbine back in and use it AGAIN (remember all the copycat school shootings after that??).

    People will be so impacted in Aurora for the rest of their lives over this shooting. There's no need to drag the Columbine people back into this as they are still suffering too. My thoughts and prayers are going out to both communities right now and I hope the press will be kinder and gentler than they usually are.

    [This Message was Edited on 07/20/2012]
  3. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    The news stations are drawing comparisons to all the other mass shootings. My one daughter lived very close to Columbine at that time. There was just a horrible pall hanging over the area for a longtime. My other daughter and SIL lived in the same condo village as I did but had moved by the time I lived there.

    From the map they just showed on TV, I can't tell for sure whether the guy lived in the bad part of Aurora I mentioned or whether he lived in an older area close to the Univ. of CO Medical Center where he was once a student. A lot of the students and medical personnel live in those older apts.

    Right behind the reporter on Fox is the Dillards where I once worked evenings and weekends part time when I was just getting started in insurance. I only planned on working the holidays but enjoyed retail so much that I stayed on until I no longer had time for the part-time job. I could have walked to that theater from my condo. My DD's best friend still lives in Aurora but she lives out to the east quite a way and probably uses the theater complex out there. Aurora is a big suburb east of Denver and has no real town. There are gang areas, middle-class housing, expensive housing and just about everything in between.

    I'm sure the same pall will hang over this area for a long time. A number of years ago, a disgruntled ex-employee shot a bunch of people inside a Chucky Cheese not far from there. If only we could foresee what these troubled individuals are planning. Of course, after the fact, there are usually red flags which cropped up leading up to the events. My heart goes out to everyone involved. Evidently, a young child died. How sad.

    Love, Mikie
  4. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    I am a gun owner and I don't want anyone to tell me I can't have my guns. I am a responsible gun owner. I enjoy target shooting and I do carry, I have a permit, when I go into areas which are iffy, like our local mall. This is a very violent little town. A lot of violence here is drug related.

    I do not believe anyone needs assault rifles nor magazines which hold 30 rounds. I do not believe it should be easy to get guns. I do not beong to the NRA because they do not want to give an inch when it comes to keeping guns out of irresponsible hands. They have a gun safety class for young people but do young people need guns?

    People who do these things are sick and, unfortunately, guns allow them to attack a lot of people in a short period. This guy could have shot a lot of people with his two hand guns without using the assault rifle. Even if we were to outlaw guns, people bent on getting them would find a way and it would just create another lucrative illegal activity for gangs and criminals.

    I don't know what the answer is. I think we will always have people who commit mass murder. Usually, they are not mentally stable and something causes them to go over the edge. This is why I think bullying is so dangerous. Not all these events are bullying related but some have been. Our society seems to me to be more polarized and mean and often exclusive toward others who are different than they. This probably doesn't set people up to commit these crimes but I really think we need to set a better example to our youngsters to reach out and treat other people with respect.

    One of the things I love about our little community here is how kind and supportive our members are. This is the first place many of us turn when we need love and support. If only the rest of society could be more like we are here.

    Love, Mikie
  5. Granniluvsu

    Granniluvsu Well-Known Member

    I really don't have that much time to post but wanted to check this thread out.

    It is all so very sad and I agree I wish they wouldn't keep comparing this tragedy to Columbine and all the other horrors we have had. I also agree with you Mikie about guns. I do not particularly love them but I don't want anyone telling me I/we can't have one. I sure hope DH is home if someone trys to break into our house or anything like that. DH has a rifle and know how to use it, if he needs to.

    zi was listening to the radio when the broadcaster mentioned that a 3 month old baby was brought to the movie and I think was killed in that massacre. What a terrible thing to have happened. Well, I wouldn't jhave brough such a young baby there anyway but tha tis something else to talk about if you want to. It is all so terrible sad. All it takes someone a little bit unstable, and perhaps being abused or made of in some way to cause such a thing. He/ or she might even just think people are being mean to him/her (paranoia) to cause a tragedy and with all these smart phones everyone has their faces in all the time. Almost anything could cause a problem nowadays with some people and anyone wanting any kind of attention could also cause such a thing.

    Oh, my heart goes out to all those people affected and killed. Lots of prayers needed for those 12 souls. Hope there aren't any more, as about 50 , I believe were shot, even into the next theater. Very well thought out apparently including wiring up his apartment or house which could cause explosions and more injuries or deaths. It is just so very very sad. There are so many awful things happening in this world.

    Love to all,
  6. springwater

    springwater Active Member

    here in my country. The first thing came to mind was the Norway shooting.

    This too seemed such a methodical cold blooded purposeful act. And then

    they showed the shooters photo and im thinking how can such a sensitive

    looking young man, studyng in a medical school and in his fourth year do

    this? What drove him to it?

    And then his poor parents. His family.

    Here in nearby India, some twenty young men molested a young girl on

    the steets one evening, pulling her hair and manhandling her for twenty

    minutes, and a reporter took a video and it got posted on tv and the net

    and all the mens faces got put up on tv and they got nabbed by the

    police. The main accuseds father was interviewed and he was crying and

    saying "my son behaved wrong, he should be punished, "and he was crying


    How much heartache is being caused by one mans actions, im thinking

    of all the people in shock at losing a loved one suddenly, in a cinema hall!!!

    the shooters kin, the shooter himself. im just waiting to see what reason

    he gives for doing all this. this kind of insanity is so scary. when youre

    mentally unbalanced but it doesnt show enough to be treated straight away.

    God Bless
  7. TwoCatDoctors

    TwoCatDoctors New Member

    Every TV station I tune to, I'm getting the shooting news with video of the chaos of people getting out of the theater wounded, story of a woman that died, etc. I switch channels and can't get away from it. If people don't already feel bad enough about it, the media is going to beat every detail of the shooting into us repeatedly to make everyone feel even worse.

    And it was either 20/20 or Dateline that was showing photos of the Columbine shooters and going to "compare" to this shooter. NO WAY, so I turned channels YET AGAIN.

    Then on the other channels are the latest Batman movies, plus the really old Batman 30 minute TV shows that were on long ago, plus animated Batman 30 minute TV shows. I thought to myself, it's no coincidence that so much Batman is all over TV tonight--the TV bigwigs are trying to commercialize on the theater shooting by playing Batman on TV to see if it equals higher viewer ratings and thus higher revenues from commercials. It's cold, calculated and thoughtless to do.

    I'm calling it a day and going to bed (and it's a super comfy bed too).
  8. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    Whenever there is a mass shooting, there is an outcry to get rid of guns. This is understandable. I would be willing to give mine up if I knew absolutely that no one else had guns. This is impossible. I totally understand and sympathize with those who hate guns and want them gone. They are used in horrific crimes. Mass. has some of the most restrictive gun laws and yet, a man went on a shooting spree at his ex employer's office. It was in my next-door neighbor's, Barb's, hometown of Wakefield. The Aurora shooter evidently also set up a trap in his apt. (thank God he told police about it) using ammo and some kind of chemicals to cause an explosion, potentially killing even more people. The Columbine killers had home-made explosives with them.

    It isn't just available weapons, although, as I metioned, I don't believe in assault rifles' and large magazines' being legal, it's that there are some very sick people out there. They may plan their assaults for months until the time is "right" to them. We can't arrest people who seem strange to us or who we think might go on a killing spree. All we can do is try to be viligant to spot people in trouble or under mental stress and try to get help for them. Even then, they cannot be institutionalized against their will long enough to get help for them.

    I continue to think our society is a factor in violence. We cannot have discussions on TV without labeling each other as having one political affiliation or another, as though each side is a homogenous group with identical values. Yes, there are outliers with the same values and political ideologies but most of us are somewhere in the middle. We may be conservative in one area and progressive in another. We should be able to discuss individual issues without all the baggage which is usually attached to whatever label is affixed. These discussions are often disrespectful. What a sorry example.

    We don't all have the same politics here but we are not the usual group of people that the media like to portray. We can discuss and agree to disagree or bring our ideas to the discussion without the rancor which we see on TV. We just want to support one another in our fight against our illnesses and whatever life brings our way. The overwhelming theme here is one of kindness and caring. We are all a wonderful example of being brothers and sisters who only want to help. I think if the rest of society were more like us, it would help to reduce a lot of society's stress and the individual stress individuals. This wouldn't eliminate sick people's going on sprees but it might help and it wouldn't hurt.

    I am amazed at how the media is portraying this shooting spree as being so "close" to Columbine--15 miles. Anyone familiar with the Denver Metro Area would never consider them close. Columbine is on the West side of town, near the foothills, and Aurora is on the East side of Denver. One female reporter mentioned that she had visited Aurora and what a charming little town it is. Huh! Aurora isn't little and it isn't a town. There is no town, per se. It is a sprawling suburb.

    Finally, what are people thinking, bringing infants and six-year olds to a midnight showing of a dark and violent movie. No, the shooting wasn't their fault but I was shocked to see such irresponsible behavior by these parents. The shooter, and only the shooter, was responsible, unless he is so mentally ill that he can't be held responsible.

    When all is said and done, it is just a horrible tragedy and I have been praying for everyone involved and those touched by the violence of it. I hope everyone who needs it can get some therapy. My daughter is a mental health nurse and knows first hand how part of our society tries to cope with mental illness and addiction. So many of the programs to help them have been cut and that, too, is a tragedy. I really do believe it takes a village. I also believe in taking responsibility for oneself but having some safety nets when things outside our control knock us down. Most of us here know how that feels because many of us have lost our former lives to illness. Thank God for programs which help, medical practitioners who help and our wonderful supportive friends here.

    Love, Mikie
  9. TwoCatDoctors

    TwoCatDoctors New Member

    When my son was a teenager and missing school and starting in trouble, I was taking meetings with the Tough Love group, had my son and I in counseling and was asking for recommendations from the court for any programs--I'd take help from wherever it comes.

    The judge hearing my son's case and knowing that I owned a hand gun (had been taught to use it by policeman) and it was well locked up--the judge ordered me to get rid of the gun. I took it to a gun shop and sold it to them and had sales paperwork and receipt that I could present to the judge or any future court personnel if requested. I thought the judge was extreme because the policeman and I had developed the way to lock it up and keep it and I was very good about that. But I obeyed anyway.

    back then I was court ordered to get rid of a hand gun from the home due to a teenager that was missing school and starting in trouble. What are the judges doing NOW involving kids or adults that are seriously troubled or have serious mental health issues that live in homes with guns?? I really haven't heard much of judges ordering guns removed from homes of troubled youth/adults.

    In a townhouse many years ago, my next door neighbor had so many guns and rifles and so much ammo. Clearly anyone could have broken into that neighbor's home if they wanted a gun/rifle bad enough. If a person wants a gun bad enough, they will get--they don't have to buy it legally, they can get it off the black market, go to certain neighborhoods and buy it, and sometimes go to areas and find weapons used in crimes that have been disposed of (a dumpster diver found one in our dumpster and notified police).

    Something else to consider. We had a case in a law firm representing a counselng professional (won't say what type of professional) who reported a patient due to what had been said and that patient then sued the professional and this was going to go to trial (I left before the outcome). It makes the professional very weary of what to report and when, and gauging if that patient is expressing something s/he intends to do, or something from a day dream or a dream at night.

    Mikie is right. The resources for mental health have dwindled terribly over the years. The U.S. will greatly support the auto industry and banks, but we're not helping those with mental health problems.

    Plus, let's be truthful that to get some people help requires authorities (Police, social workers/etc.) to complete a lot of work and paperwork to submit to a judge and get an ordered commitment to a mental hospital for usually up to 72 hours for observation/treatment, etc. For some authorities, it's just easier to walk on by.

  10. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    I'm so sorry for all your problems. I hope you DS is doing well now. Yes, having to get rid of your gun seems over the top but I do understand the effort to get guns out of homes where there are troubled youths. Young people, especially boys, don't have a fully developed frontal lobe and their ability to control impulsive behavior and use good judgement isn't that of an adult. I live by myself but I do put the guns away when my GS visits. Even when kids are warned never to touch guns, the lure of them is just too strong. I've seen it on TV and the parents are horrified that their kids will pick up a gun.

    As part of assessing health risks, docs were asking parents of kids whether there were firearms in the home. The NRA put an end to that. I have mixed feelings because I think the ability to own guns without others' knowing is something we should have. On the other hand, there is doc/patient confidentiality. This is just another example of the NRA's paranoia.

    As I said earlier, this is all such a complex issue. When something like this happens, we want answers and things we can do to prevent another mass killing. Unfortunately, it just isn't that easy. I wish it were. We just can't control everything and being so vulnerable makes us scared and angry and all other kinds of emotions. We can pray and that's what I've been doing.

    Love, Mikie
  11. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    If it were up to me, we'd live in a world of peace and love. I abhor violence in any form be it war, fighting, or even cruelty. All I can do is try to keep the peace in my capacity to do so. I pray every night that I never have to use my gun for anything besides target shooting. I don't carry nearly as often as when I had to protect my Mom but I still do because there are places here that simply are not safe.

    I understand your point of view and respect it and you.

    Love, Mikie
  12. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    I was living in that condo in Aurora when Rodney King was beaten and the cops got off, leading to the LA riots. The Aurora neighborhood was integrated and we all lived in peace in our condo area. Whenever I went downstairs to take my trash or get my mail, one of my black neighbors would accompany me for my own safety. I never asked them; they just stepped up. One man was beaten at the local 7/Eleven and my sweet neighbors were worried about me. After every horrific event, there are examples of human kindness. If only we could keep the kindness going.

    I understand that we have a different mind set and that's OK. I am horrified by the "Stand Your Ground" shooting of that kid here in FL. It should have never happened. The law was not designed to provide a defense against senseless killing. I belong to Neighborhood Watch and when I have to go down to throw people out of the pool after dark, I never carry. I would never even think of it. That makes me vulnerable but I always handle it with tact and respect and most people are good about it. In both the NW and permit to carry classes, we were told we are not cops and we shouldn't try to be. That shooting would never have happened had the NW guy stayed in his vehicle as ordered by the police on the phone when they told him to stand down and stay in his vehicle.

    Drawing a weapon is a last resort when one's life, or the life of another, is in such danger that there is no other alternative if one want's a chance of survival. Unfortunately, the permit to carry classes fall on deaf ears and/or the students are not required to show adequate proficiency with weapons. All we had to do in my class was go to a range and fire one shot from a 38 revolver. A monkey could do that. If one didn't shoot anyone or point the gun at the instructor, he or she was declared, "competent." I was very surprised to see so many elderly people in the class. On the other hand, some older people down here have defended themselves from some very violent criminals who broke into their homes. We still have a right to defend ourselves. Not our property, but ourselves. We can choose to do that or not. I choose to try to survive but understand that not everyone feels the same.

    We still have the right to disagree on important matters without losing respect for one another. I'm glad. That fits in with our desire for peace.

    Love, Mikie
  13. jole

    jole Member

    This guy was well qualified to do what he did with another source of weapons, such as bombs, obviously. If a person is demented enough to want to kill, in my opinion they'll find a way, with or without guns.

    We, as well as our kids, own guns. We live in the country and have wild animals that threaten our livestock and pets. Some of our kids love deer meat. They do not shoot for the sport as much as for food.

    That said, I also have a nephew who ended his life with a gun at the age of 14. Do I hold the gun responsible? No, I don't. Honestly, I wonder how many people a year who are in car accidents were really 'accidents'. Just no way to prove it. I've had two people tell me if they decided to end their life that's how they'd do it because of insurance. Sick is sick is sick, no matter how you look at it.
  14. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    I was thinking about your fox. We now have racoons who are brave enough to go to the dumpster in braod daylight. One neighbor also saw a fox. We don't have any new development going on right now and there is a park and nature preserve across the street. I worry about rabies or harm to the cats. They are big enough now that I hope the wildlife doesn't think they are prey. Two racoons came into Jeff's lanai through the cat door and both cats raised hell and were holding them off. Jeff no longer puts food out for the cats on his lanai. I think our feeding the cats outside is drawing unwanted animals. Both kitties play with the otters and possums but they get along well with them.

    I don't even live in a rural area but a suburb south of town. Of course, gators are always a possibility. They are mating and on the move right now. There was a big one across the street in a drainage ditch. Gators think dogs, cats and small children are snacks.

    Love, Mikie
  15. jole

    jole Member

    Just saw a saying and had to laugh. It said, "I carry a gun because cops are too heavy".

    We've been having mountain lions around here too. All the sightings were turned in to authorities, but they wouldn't believe it for years now. Last week my hubby's first cousin got a picture of one. Finally, a lot of people can now say they have proof of what they saw. And as beautiful as a mountain lion is, if it were after one of our cows or calves, I can guarantee you it would be gone. They were brought into this area by the government to help control the deer population (who were also brought into our state by the government), after the deer were destroying so many crops. Crazy!

    I sure don't see a need for semi-automatic or assault weapons, but most guns are a different story. There's a place for everything IMO.

  16. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    I've seen everything. I don't understand why laws against assualt weapons and huge ammo clips/magazines have an expiration date. Now, no one on either side wants to go against the NRA to reimplement the ban. It's nuts. I've seen survivalists at those shows buying weapons no one needs. They live in their own little world, thinking that they will have to someday fight off the govt. They own so many military-grade weapons and they train with them just like the military does. I saw a gun on a stand which was as tall as I am when stood up. It had a scope and would take down most anything at 4 miles. Four miles! The shells were huge.

    Even with my target shooting, I don't need a 30-round clip. Target shooting for most of us is a slow thing. I've seen cops and they practice emptying their clips in a fast manner but they aren't there for sport. They are there to keep sharp for their jobs protecting us against criminals. I used to practice clearing a jam on my semi-automatic pistol and rapidly changing clips. When I actually had a jam, it was the most helpless feeling in the world. Thank God the Aurora shooter's gun jammed or the list of victims might have been longer and he might have killed and maimed many, many more. He had a high-capacity magazine.

    I took my gun in to have it fixed so it would be less likely to jam but a semi-automatic always has the possibility of jamming. Since I also keep guns for protection, I got a small revolver to carry. It's lighter and more reliable and I don't have to worry about jams. The Aurora shooter had so much bullet-resistant gear on that it's unlikely any citizen with a gun could have stopped him. Thank God that these kinds of mass shootings aren't everyday events. Most of the time, small weapons are used to protect against small-time thugs and gang bangers. Mine, at least, gives me a fighting chance.

    Speaking of which, I have also taken hand-to-hand combat classes. There is a lot one can do to protect oneself even when unarmed against someone with a gun. It's not perfect but, again, it ups the chance of survival, which is the whole idea. I took protecting my Mom seriously when she was alive. We were confronted by a mad man in the grocery store one night. He was angry because he didn't have ID and they wouldn't sell him cigarettes. He was threatening to go out to his car to get his gun and shoot everyone in the store. I was armed and glad I was. The guy must have figured out someone was calling the cops and left. Thank God! I said a prayer of thanks that he didn't shoot anyone and that I didn't have to use my gun to protect us.

    The decision to own guns isn't something to be taken lightly. One has to do a lot of soul searching first and if the decision is to get a gun, one has to learn to be proficient and safe. I think guns are here to stay but that doesn't mean we shouldn't enact and enforce laws to try to keep them out of the hands of those who have no business owning them. We need to close the loopholes at gun shows or through private sales. In FL, just using a gun in a crime adds time to the sentence. If the gun is fired, it adds even more time. If someone is shot, the criminal usually serves what amounts to a life sentence. Of course, this isn't a total deterance but it's a step in the right direction.

    I, on the other hand, am not allowed to shoot an animal, even if it's attacking a human. A loose pit bull attacked Tweety when she was a kitten. He had her head in his mouth. A neighbor took a baseball bat to the dog's head and had to hit it several times before it let Tweety go. Maybe I should add a bat to my arsenal. I'd hate to hit a dog but I would to save one of the cats. We never saw the dog again. Where are the owners of these pets? Oh well, one societal problem at a time.

    Love, Mikie
  17. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    I think in the coming months, we will learn a lot more about this guy. I felt just by looking at him in court that he was acting, hoping for an insanity plea but most of the professionals seemed to think he is mentally ill. Mental exams will likely turn up the truth. Criminals are extremely manipulative. The defense will likely find a shrink who says he's insane and the prosecutors will likely find one who says he isn't. The Tucson shooter was found by everyone to be insane. There is something comforting about finding these guys insane. If they aren't, how do we wrap our minds around something like this? How can anyone order 6,000 rounds of ammo without it's raising a red flag? Wish that gun range owner would have contacted the cops. Just like I wish the flight school owner had called the cops when one of the 9/11 terrorists took lessons and only wanted to learn to fly and not to land. Hindsight--20/20.

    Love, Mikie
  18. springwater

    springwater Active Member

    from mums side of the family who was a bonafide schizophrenic.

    but he was diagnosed around late teens. He was a shy quiet brilliant

    student but got pulled out of school and put into a monastery and

    made a boy monk when he was in early teens. his father died early

    so his mum was looking after him and she used to drink a lot.

    under medication he came to this country from India and seemed stable

    (he was around early twenties then) and looking for work. My dads

    step mum put him in charge of their monastery where he oversaw accounts.

    he was doing well, everyone happy with him. and suddenly one day he

    flipped. This mild mannered quiet boy just started talking nonstop strutting

    around, taking drags on a cigarette, swaggering around. he wasnt

    talking anything intelligent either. it was eerie to say the least.

    his elder brother hadto come get him take him back home.

    last heard he had gone to dubai and was doing well working in a resort

    there, he had one episode relapse (that i know of) and his elder brother

    had him brought back, treated and again sent back to the place.

    i dont know whats happened lately.


    my niece who had psychotic episodes of bipolar was so quiet everyone in

    her school knew she didnt talk. when she had her first psychotic episode

    when she was 19, she started jabbering non stop, and used to stop motorcycles

    outside her house and dance in front of them.

    The look in her eyes even when she was on medication (a sort of blank gleam)

    ive recognized in that Norways killers eyes and feel for sure he is mentally

    unstable. Saw the same thing in that distant cousins eyes.

    I didnt see it in HOlmes (he was looking extremely sedated) but feel if he were

    evil there would be records of it in his behaviour growing up and noted by

    people who knew him.

    its baffling why he would suddenly break out like this.

    in my country our crown prince who had no history of mental illness

    took a AK 47 and gunned down his parents, his sister and a whole lot of

    others. Apparently he was at loggerheads with his mum who wouldnt let

    him marry the girl of his choice. But its said he took drugs that night

    and mixed it with alcohol. The massacre happened during a family get

    together dinner.
  19. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    Often makes itself obvious at about the age of this guy. Many people are mentally ill and in crisis but it doessn't manifest itself in such violent behavior. Sometimes, it will manifest in bazaar behavior as you mentioned. Still, there is the occasional violent outbreak. Most of the time, people who knew the killers said they were quiet and showed no indication of a violent personality. It's so sad that this can happen. I hope we can find ways of identifying people who are sick and need help.

    Love, Mikie