OMG....This is very disturbing...

Discussion in 'Spirituality/Worship' started by Gingareeree, Feb 18, 2009.

  1. Gingareeree

    Gingareeree New Member

    I just heard that a man beheaded his wife in Buffalo,N.Y. Apparently this occured about five days ago,however the media chose to suppress this news. This man,he and his wife had just started up the first Muslim radio program here in the U.S. Ironically,it's purpose was to shed a more positive light on the Muslum community. This was considered a "honor" killing. I know that not all Muslims adhere to this brutality,but I find it very disturbing that this is happening here in our country. Where is all the outrage by the so called feminist groups? God must be weeping....Jeanne
  2. TwoCatDoctors

    TwoCatDoctors New Member

    I am outraged and this man should be put to death because he will do this again if he is eventually paroled from the system (or they empty out some of the prisoners due to crowding). Imagine the horror that woman went through. Hopefully, there won't be any foolish women lining up to marry this murderer.
  3. Rafiki

    Rafiki New Member

    This was domestic violence and not culturally based. If it were an Irish Catholic (I'm Irish Catholic by birth) none would say that it had anything to do with ethnicity or religion. I was raised in a violent alcoholic home - we were all lucky to get through being a family alive. If you saw a post somewhere saying that not all Catholics were violent alcoholics even though a Catholic man killed his wife, you would probably find it offensive.

    The media did not suppress this story. It was on the internet days ago.

    I am really alarmed at how domestic violence can be turned into fear mongering. I'm sure you are simply passing on something you heard but it is damaging and dangerous.

    It really saddens me to see this.

    I'm sorry to be so blunt.

    Rafiki
  4. springwater

    springwater Active Member

    My husband told me about this the other day, it was out in our papers. But it says domestic violence. She was estranged from him and filing for divorce.

    God Bless
  5. Although, my wording (in my head, as *I* was reading it, was different), you & I basically arrived at the exact same point,

    Absolutely. 1,000's of women are beaten, stabbed, shot, strangled, tortured, everyday... who knows (precise, or closer* 'statistics' as to *killed* per day) of all races, religions, creeds, etc.. doesn't make the news as "christian man, knocks christian wife down stairs, kills her." or, "lutheran man, beats wife to death, in drunken rampage"... etc...

    See what we're kind of saying?

    Makes the *local* news, but, it's still 'just' man kills wife/girlfriend/fiancee.... not ______ (enter religion) man, does _____ (enter method of murder) ________ (again, religion) wife"

    Unless, the person is a priest, preacher, reverend, rabbi, pastor... y'know?

    Beheading- yes, absolutely mind-boggling, so hard to fathom- but...

    why have we (society) become seemingly* so much less sensitive to other ways of violence/murder- bleeding to death from having been stabbed, or laying there, after a horrible beating, a fatal gunshot, etc...

    I think maybe, probably* due to those horrific videos, that I thank god, I did not see (however, saw very little news clips of 'beforehand' (and SHAME ON THE MEDIA!!!!), of the beheadings done in the middle east, to all sorts of journalists, from all different countries.. MAYBE, we associate beheading... with the much conflicted middle east(ern) religious struggles...etc? Please forgive anything in this, if ANYONE finds it offensive.

    There was a mentally ill man, in Canada, though, that murdered people on a bus, and not only beheaded at least one person- but, went further than that... I cannot, and will not go beyond that, as I don't want to discuss any of this icky horrible stuff of this world anymore..


    ALL of them- absolutely horrific, & unimaginable as to what any person must go through at the hands of that violence. (let's not forget some women abusing men too, just to make sure not to offend :) and my LORD... LORENA BOBBIT... how on earth did her husband "sleep" through what she did???

    Tonight, our news had a *mother's* (mother- ICK! she does not deserve that TITLE) mugshot- anyhow. her INFANT, died, and toxicology reports found morphine, prescribed to HER, in the babies system.

    Over & over this too happens.. and so many can't have children, and *want* them so bad their hearts ache... and see this more & more in the news headlines nowadays too. I can't imagine how TRUE, GOOD, SAFE, LOVING, PROTECTIVE mothers feel about this stuff, I have no children, and I know how I feel.


    In love & kindness, put your mind at ease, go look at puppies & kittens, :-D

    Laura
  6. Gingareeree

    Gingareeree New Member

    I would like to clarify why I mentioned the faith of the persons' involved in this horrifying act. I was citing the irony of the basis for the radio program ,which was to shed a more positive light on Muslums as a whole,to dispel any negative impressions people may have of this faith. You can call this incident an act of domestic violence or whatever you like,however the barbaric nature in which this man choose to murder his wife,does in fact have cultural ties. As a previous poster mentioned,all the beheadings that have occured in the Middle East, were by people of this faith, would naturally lead one to this conclusion. Of course,I am not painting all people of Muslim faith with the same broad brush.,however,you cannot deny that there is a faction of this faith that is pretty radical. I mentioned in my original post that I know not all are of this mindset. I also realize that all religions have issues that aren't very pretty,none are perfect. I am not fear mongering,although I do think it's pretty frightening and I to am saddened and horrified by this. Jeanne
  7. Rafiki

    Rafiki New Member

    I cannot deny that there are members of every faith who are radical, extremist or that barbaric things have been done in the name of practically every faith.

    I think it is a mistake to call an act of horrific domestic violence an "honor killing" because it is committed by a Muslim. If one of my parents had managed to kill the other, and they tried, would there have been a connection to the bombings in Northern Ireland or the UK? Or, would their Catholic upbringing be to blame?

    Why don't we hold all tribes accountable for the acts of fringe members? Why would it sound silly to say that not all Canadians are violent after a beheading on a Canadian bus?

    I cannot account for anyone's understanding of Islam. I am very fortunate that my understanding is broader and more personal than an image of a beheading. I have also worked with Muslim women in India, Pakistan and East Africa. My understanding is made even more nuanced by the reality that one of my kids lives in Jerusalem and other is going there soon. These are very personal issues for all of us.

    I'm sorry but I cannot speak about this any more. We are worlds apart on this issue and it would be too difficult to find the common ground on a message board. I would like to sit with you in my living room so that we could look at each other, hear each other's voice and, perhaps, cry together over our terrible collective inability to judge not and to make peace.

    I probably have not made myself very clear but the state of the world and our willingness to divide humanity up into us and them breaks my heart. It really breaks my heart.

    Peace out,
    Rafiki


    ETA It is probably no surprise to anyone that I am against capital punishment of any kind. I do not find lethal injection any more palatable or humane than beheading. I do not find any kind of capital punishment anything other than barbaric.

    Historical background.
    The Greeks and the Romans considered beheading a less dishonourable (and less painful) form of execution than other methods in use at the time. The Roman Empire used beheading for its own citizens whilst crucifying others.
    Beheading was widely used in Europe and Asia until the 20th century, but now is confined to Saudi Arabia, and Iran. One man was reportedly beheaded in Iran in 2003 – the first for many years. It remains a lawful method in Qatar and Yemen, although no executions by this method have been reported.

    Beheading was used in Britain up to 1747 (see below) and was the standard method in Norway (abolished 1905), Sweden (up to 1903), Denmark and Holland (abolished 1870), and was used for some classes of prisoners in France (up until the introduction of the guillotine in 1792) and in Germany up to 1938. All the European countries that previously used beheading have now totally abolished the death penalty.

    [This Message was Edited on 02/19/2009]
  8. Gingareeree

    Gingareeree New Member

    Thank you for your response. I' m sorry that my post has caused you so much pain. You sound like a very lovely person. I have always enjoyed reading your posts. Your thoughtful and kind nature comes through. Admittedly, I don't know a lot about the Muslum faith. Referring to the statement about this incident being an honor killing was what I'd heard on the news,not my own thought. May God keep your children in His care and grant you His peace,Jeanne
  9. Rafiki

    Rafiki New Member

    I feel as though you are in my living room and you have just reached out and touched my hand.

    I am very moved.

    Thank you,
    Rafiki
  10. PainPainGoAway

    PainPainGoAway New Member

    Wow-- I got chills reading that...very moved here too.
    I read about that crime too, and as stunning as it is, sadly, murder is still the result of many marriages when the wife tries to leave. I'm one who got away..thankfully. I'd like to believe he really wouldn't have gone through with it but I still suffer from the effects and have those reminders.

    You two are so very nice...
    Thanks,
    Cindy
    [This Message was Edited on 03/07/2009]
  11. PainPainGoAway

    PainPainGoAway New Member

    Of course, I still freak out a bit posting that, but felt I wanted to mention it...I'll always have one eye open, even at this sweet place...and hope anyone else in our shoes can get away safely too...sometimes leaving is the hardest part because we know it's the most dangerous part...they don't want us but don't want anyone else to either...nonsense!
  12. PainPainGoAway

    PainPainGoAway New Member

    I wasn't planning on leaving up what I wrote for personal reasons, but felt moved that although the thread started out like that, an understanding of sorts happened...

    I lived for several years as a young girl in a Muslim country-- I see no difference so maybe that's where I'm blind to this...

    Cindy
  13. Rafiki

    Rafiki New Member

    Wayne, This is not a thread that can be understood without reading every single post. I think something quite wonderful happened here. I think Jeanne is a remarkable woman who was, as she has been many times in the past, open and thoughtful. It isn't very often that we listen to each other in this crazy world and it is even more rare when we listen and everyone changes just a little bit. I think Jeanne and I both listened and changed. I think that's remarkable.

    I understand your feelings and bet you have not yet read everything that happened. We went on a difficult journey and most of us ended up in a very good place. If there's one thing I know about Wayne it's that he appreciates a journey that ends up in a good place.

    Cindy, I have been reading some posts you wrote on another board and I have wanted to tell you how kind and generous I think you are. You have shown such gentleness of spirit and seemingly endless patience. I am in awe of your light!

    And Jeanne, oh Jeanne, we met and we touched and we were open to each other - there was grace in it.

    Peace out,
    Rafiki
  14. PainPainGoAway

    PainPainGoAway New Member

    So beautifully written-- that's exactly how I see it. A difficult journey that ended up in a good place is a good way to put it. I was hestitant to post because of the personal nature but felt moved to do so after reading the whole thread as it unfolded...

    Thank you Rafiki for the compliment...that took a lot out of me if it's the one I'm thinking about...so glad someone else saw my point (not too hard to see, really). It's always worth it if something good can come from it so thank you for that mention!

    I feel like I was in your living room too-- watching that "touch"...needed a tissue, I tell you!

    Take Care,
    Cindy
  15. Rafiki

    Rafiki New Member

    To all who changed and learned something about themselves, as I did, I want to say: Thank you!

    Rainbow spoke so honestly and eloquently about her reactions and her changes. That takes courage, I think. We all needed that courage to get where we are now.

    I wanted, at one point, to shut my heart to Jeanne but she did not let me. She reached out in compassion and with great dignity.

    Cindy, Yes, I'm sure you do know the thread to which I refer. No one could have been more patient or more kind. What you shared was enormous. It may not have been possible for one person to hear you but I heard you. I truly am in awe of your light.

    Peace out (Wayne, my gentle friend, of course)
    Rafiki

    PS Laura! I didn't mean to leave you out but I had read your other post and wanted to respond to you there. Thank you for being on today's journey. Take care of yourself.

    PPS Cindy, I'm still processing your story. It makes what I witnessed yesterday all the more remarkable. My mother was fond of saying: What doesn't kill you makes you stronger. You make me think she was right.


    [This Message was Edited on 02/19/2009]
  16. PainPainGoAway

    PainPainGoAway New Member

    Aww, you are so sweet! I think your mother was right, too...all in all, I've had a very good life...so when I wanted to throw in the towel rather than fight for myself and my children, no one would let me!

    I get down, I'll admit that, but I get right back up again. It's been a process! Even though my family is far away, they're very present... sometimes I don't know why I have so many willing to help me, but more often I'm just grateful and don't question it! My kids are awesome and I've had to hear it many times that it's because of me (mostly)...somehow, I think they will be okay, and I plan on being around for quite awhile...I never talk about it because it's too near to my heart, but everyone who needs to, understands.

    Thank you Rafiki, you made my day...I had emailed Missizzy (remember her?) earlier in frustration and advice was to just leave it be, and avoid any more stress so I'll tell her you "got it" too...so I'm just thrilled that it touched you.

    And that's how I felt reading this today...slightly different views, all coming together...I'm grateful (you too, I bet) to have had the chance to live and travel to so many places. People are people no matter what.

    I know your heart must ache for your girls to be so far away..got a senior who's ready to move to another State and I'm fine with it but, oh, the pangs! And my parents left their countires/families...I followed my ex here and stayed...too hot to go west, really!

    Rainbow and everyone, you are all wonderful...

    Cindy
  17. springwater

    springwater Active Member

    you said..."in jesus there is freedom...we do not believe to hurt or mame for our god(that is what it meant by an honor killing..he would receive honor in his heaven for doing the killing that he did) or to judge..we are saved by "grace" as christians.....but to pray for our enemys that they will be set free to know love and stop the cycle of the killing machine..whoever they may be..who do these acts of horrible violence....may they be accountable, cut down and then renewed by the spirit of truth."

    there are no religions which kill or hurt in their Gods name. If all Muslims were to kill in Allahs name, I shudder to think of what would happen, since Islam is one of the most prolific religions. We as Buddhists also pray individually and collectively for the welbeing of all sentient beings...when the bird flu broke out in Tibet, vast prayer meetings were held in the community hall for days at a time, to pray the disease comes to a halt and for the souls of the millions of birds being slaughtered. When the country was in the throes of almost civil war, (Maoists against government) daily public prayers where anyone could participate, were held constantly by both Hindus and Buddhists for peace to prevail.

    The crusade wars were wars (killings) carried out by Christians against perceived pagans, non christians, perceived heretics, (Im thinking i would have been perceived as a heretic if i lived in those days and put to death); Henry the VII of England beheaded several people including his own wives and made himself head of the Church of England!!! And of course the hated KKK who calmly used to announce they were going to heaven inspite of treating people of colour like dirt/animals. Every religion has its history of crime done in its name.Just as every religon has its share of enlightened charismatic people who have inspired people to love and spread the peace and do good works selflessly.

    As humans with the ability to think, question, understand and the compassion inherent in our nature, we are evolving into something better, more loving. If there are 'honour' killings, it is perpetrated because the leaders of those countries place restrictions on outside influence and more progressive thought. The people of the same religion in another more open country abhor the practise so it is more cultural based, than religion based. Otherwise with half the world Muslims, we would have a blitzkrieg of honour killings would we not? Instead we have Muslims freely marrying Hindus or Christians as is common in India/nepal, each partner following their own religon without judging the other.

    I am happy i live in this era where i am not 'forced' by anyone to adhere to one way of thinking or worshipping as the authorities deem fit whether it resonates with me personally or not.



    God Bless
    [This Message was Edited on 02/20/2009]
  18. Rafiki

    Rafiki New Member

    How painful it must be to have a child and a grandchild living under a repressive regime. I cannot imagine the depth of your loss. I can only imagine it is terrible.

    There are many repressive regimes around the world following many different creeds. I'm sure you will agree that supporting those who dedicate their lives to work for Human Rights around this diverse world is something we all must do. Human Rights Watch springs to mind but there are many.

    I pray that one day you will be reunited with your child perhaps, in part, as a result of these efforts. However it happens, I pray it does.

    Your president was in my country today. We were so happy to see him. The phrase of the moment up here is: Obama envy! We've got it.

    Peace to a proud American!

    Rafiki


    [This Message was Edited on 02/19/2009]
  19. PainPainGoAway

    PainPainGoAway New Member

    My heart goes out to you, Cate...how terrifying. How old is your daughter? I'm glad he didn't hurt her more, but that sounds pretty bad enough.

    I see you from a mother's eyes (my own mother was so intrumental in helping me move on, but very angry-- so I think I see you working on that, very difficult, I'm sure), and foremost, protect your daughter and yourself. Plenty of children grow in violent homes who don't act like that...if that's his excuse, then he shouldn't be with a woman period.

    Your daughter was just trying to move on, and with a car and ability to once again drive...how wonderful! Therapy helped me, as did taking advantage of all resourses. I consider myself a peaceful person, but it didn't stop or rub off on anyone else, if you know what I mean...do what you need to do to keep yourselves safe. I know how scared you must be. I do for the most part have peace now (not totally, kids involved).

    If I can help, let me know!
    Cindy
  20. Rafiki

    Rafiki New Member

    This is a horrifying situation. Your poor dear child!

    I hope he is in custody now and not at his mother's talking on the phone! That must have been quite a shock. I truly can't imagine how it must have felt to find he was at home with his mother! I truly do not understand how he could have been at liberty to take a phone call at home. How dreadful for you.

    Your daughter may have objected to the police. Kids can feel as though they are responsible, somehow, for the trouble they get into. No one is responsible for being viciously attacked. And, an attack like this must be reported to police. Not reporting it would have given your child the message that it is ok for a young man to beat her up. You had to report it right away. I know you know all of this already.

    I'm sorry that you both face what is sure to be a very difficult situation. I can't imagine that it won't involve court. I'm not really clear as to why you would take a call from his mother but I wouldn't take another one. I would run that issue by a lawyer and/or the police.

    Right Action is sometimes refraining from throttling a person who hurt our child. Sometimes that is the very best one can do. It would be the very best I could do.

    Peace out,
    Rafiki