? on vitamins and supplements, what to take? help

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by Peace77, Jul 20, 2008.

  1. Peace77

    Peace77 New Member

    I have copied and pasted a lot of suggestions here. Can someone simplify this for me. I'm so confused. What are the basics for FM? I know magnesium is one for cramps. And fish oil right? I need a fairly simple regimine and somewhere to start. what about a multivitamin? Is green's first the best? I know vit. D treatment is recommended. Any others as a start. What about vit K and the antivirals? Can you get some of these in a combination treatment? Like an antiviral, antibacterial all in one like oregano oil. Thanks for any help and sorry for long post. Just scan through what some others have said on the topic and please help me get a basic regimen. I am also plagued with chronic fatigue. I'm also giving up smoking. There has to be a lot of toxins in cigarettes huh?
    Gentle hugs and I wish you are having a good day. Peace

    Here's what I've copied and pasted from about 19 posts. Hope its not too overwhelming, probably is, but maybe you have an answer that's simpler.

    `1. From Klutzo: Using COQ10 as an example again, the ubiquinol form is no more expensive, but is MUCH more absorbable than the ubiquinone form and us the only form of COQ10 that raises blood levels of COQ10 by a statistically significant amount.

    Another one is vitamin B12. Cyanacobalamin is not nearly as absorbable as methlycobalamin.

    When taking Alpha lipoic acid you need twice as much as if you were to take R-lipoic acid.

    With magnesium, citrate is far better absorbed than the cheaper oxide, and all Magnesium is so cheap, you may as well get the better kind.

    Calcium is very poorly absorbed no matter what kind you get, so I'd go with the citrate form again to maximize it. Some forms can contain toxins, like oyster shell calcium.

    I also do not think anyone should take calcium in supplement form if they can avoid it. People with problems caused by calcium deficiency are very often not truly deficient...they are just depositing the calcium in the wrong places, like in their soft tissues and arteries and as bone spurs, rather than in their bones. This problem will only be made worse by taking even more calcium, and IMO, is best addressed with other bone builders like magnesium, boron, manganese and the all important vitamin D. if bone loss is severe, then strontium should be added and you maust take a minimal amt. of calcium when you take strontium. Strontium actually builds new bone, while the drugs just make you hold onto old bone, so your bones look denser but are actually more brittle.

    Speaking of vitamin D, take the D3 form, never the D2 form. Vitamin D fortified milk should be avoided for this reason, as it almost always has the inferior D2 form added. It's better to get some regular sun exposure (wihtout letting yourself get burned) or take supplements of 1-2,000 units daily.

    Here's another tip: Neptune Krill Oil is far more absorbable than fish oil, it does not cause the belching and reflux that fish oil can, and it works far better at normalizing lipid ratios. It is also a much smaller organism, and as such, is much less likely to contain toxic mercury.

    I agree about taking whole food products when you can. I use Greens First by Doctor's Nutrition, which is equal to ten servings of fruits and veggies daily and is all natural. It costs me $38 per month, but I know I will absorb it and it is delicious.

    I agree that many products contain allergens. I have to really watch the natural ones to avoid chamommile, alfalfa, dandelion, licorice root, siberian ginseng, ginkgo biloba, bee propolis, royal jelly, and a few others that I am either allergic to, or that raise my already high blood pressure.

    We use an NSI multi-vitamin from Vitacost, made esp. for those with heart issues. It is called Cardio-Lift and it has by far the best formulation I've ever seen, but I do wonder about the source and purity of the ingredients, since it is so reasonable in price, compared to other formulas with the same things in them. We take only 1/3 dose daily, since we can't afford anymore than that.

    2. From Dannybex: Importance of vitamin K.

    3. Jaminhealth regimine:
    I take Calcium Hydroxypatite (caps) by NOW Foods. They come in 250 mg caps and I take 3 per day (750mg total). Highly absorbable product.

    With 500 mg of the above I take 2000 IU's of D3 late morning.

    Then later in the day, I take 250 mg more of the Cal and 2000 IU more of D3.

    Total of 4000 IU's of D3 per day.

    Later in the day I take Strontium, usually 340 mg. Take it away from the cal.

    Take mag citrate or chlorde or a good absorbable form of mag thru the day. Total of about 400-600 mg.

    I also take 3-6 mg of Boron earlier in the morning.

    4. Clay said: The only thing I absolutely insist on spending a lot on is fish oil. I use a brand that is tested regularly by the international fish oil testing lab.

    Jamminhealth is correct that the CA should be taken at least a couple of hours away from the strontium. Dr. Teitlebaum says some recent research shows you can take the strontium every other day and it works just as well, so I've been doing that.

    Clay2 mentioned fish oil, which I agree is important, since most of us get way too may Omega 6 oils and far too few Omega 3 oils. The purity problem is eliminated, as I mentioned before, if you take krill oil instead. It also is much more absorbable and works better to normalize lipids. I also eat walnuts daily, which provide both Omega 3 oil and serotonin.

    5. Klutzo regimine:
    I take 20 grams of whey protein every morning in a shake, mixed with Greens First, natural apple juice, water and creatine (3 X wk.).

    I take 2,500 mgs. of L-glutamine in water on an empty stomach, mixed with my Samento for Lyme, 30 mins. before the whey protein shake, to raise my glutathione. I am also hoping to cure a precancerous growth in my stomach. L-glutamine is very good for restoring both bowel and gastric mucosa to normal, and it raises hGH as well. It can heal a leaky gut as well as raise glutathione.

    I add a teaspoon of creatine to my whey shake, on the 3 days per week when I exercise, to help my exercise intolerance and muscle loss. It has eliminated my lactic acid post-exertional pain and spasm completely and dramtically increased my exercise tolerance.

    Example: Before starting creatine a month ago, I had spent about 12 years lifting weights, but could never do more than 16 bicep curls without bursting into tears from pain. It had taken me 2 years to slowly work up to a mere five minute workout that I could stand to do without suffering awful muscle spasm that would come on later on after I rested (this is known as the gelling effect).

    Within 3 weeks of starting a modest dose of creatine, far less than bodybuilders take, I could easily do 50 bicep curls with no after effects. I can now keep going all day and can do more than one exerting thing in the same day. For example, I could never have done an hour of exercise AND a week's grocery shopping on the same day before. In fact, I could rarely drive to the grocery store at all. Now I can do it easily on most days.

    I posted about this on my thread "Creatine Is Amazing". Rich Van K, whom I greatly respect, says he does not think creatine will help most CFSers, and he may be right, esp. if CFS and FMS are not the same. I do not meet the older, stricter criteria for a CFS diagnosis. The newer criteria is so loose that virtually all FMSers like me will meet it, but I feel the older criteria correctly separated the symptoms from the signs by which the two differ, and should have been kept.

    I just wonder if my taking all these things has been why I've had so much improvement in my FMS that I take nothing at all for pain. (The Lyme keeps getting worse and has almost destroyed my pancreas, for just one example).

    6. Dannybex had a concern: worried about the reports that creatine can cause or worsen cramping.
    7. Klutzo commented on above remark: I have had no cramping from creatine, but remember, I am not taking nearly as much as bodybuilders take.
    8. Klutzo again: I am not discouraging you from trying creatine...I think it's a good idea. But, I would take more Mg too, unless you are aleady taking it to bowel tolerance, or 1,200 mgs. daily, whichever comes first.
    9. emptytovoid stated: Seems like the more toxic I am, the more weight I gain and the more depressed I get. eating sugar, too, which suppresses the immune system
    10. Sasca on loosing weight:
    if you can walk a bit, that is just great. i can't walk really much at all- too much pain. But i am on a great eating plan that's very healthy. luckily before going on the valcyte, Jan. 1st, i lost a bunch of weight. now i'm maintaining on my own; have cut out all refined carbs (no bread or baked things), no sugar (i use stevia for sweetener). foods are mainly meats, some eggs, oatmeal, lots of vegs, lots of salads, and fruits. no alcohol. anyway, i feel good about eating well through the course of the valcyte. Suzanne Somers has excellent books out on her food-combining plan with lots of great recipes- since losing weight i'm kind of following her guidelines. i've gotten great food ideas and recipes from her. and i have a yogurt blender drink every day with nonfat yogurt, stevia, and a mix of fruits. i have it for one of my meals. it's very good-
    11. Erica on loosing weight and thyroid: I started putting on weight for no reason, eventually gaining almost 40 pounds! Obviously that makes you more tired and more depressed. I found out that my thyroid was having trouble converting T4 to T3. I now take pure compounded T3 and over a period of a year or more I have shed all 40 pounds.
    12. Valtrex and Zithromax for viruses. How do you get a dr. to put you on that or is there an antiviral supplement
    13. Speaking of toxins: How bad are cigarettes for someone with FMS? I’m sure there is a lot. I’m trying to quit.
    14. empty2void suggests: arosenbl0 MDL for mycoplasma
    15. arosenbl0 had a discussion on infections or something I didn’t understand. What is he/she getting at? I can’t take antibiotics is there an antibacterial I can take?
    Lerner 04/17/08 04:45 PM
    I see him in a week. I asked about the fact that I seemed to feel better on ABX and he seemed to want to wait and see if I responded to the Vaclyte. But... he hasn't been able to keep me on the Valcyte consistently because my liver enzymes keep going up. He tried to keep me at 1350mg a day and I was doing that for 6 weeks and then my enzymes went way up. I wonder if he had done the montoya thing where I was at 1800 for 2 weeks and then he dropped me down to 900 if it wouldn't have caused those problems.

    The only bacterial infections hes tested me for was Lyme and M. Pn. The Lyme test went to Labcorp (which I understand isn't very good at doing them) and the M. Pn. was just an antibody test and also went to labcorp. He hasn't tested me for C. Pn, other mycoplasmas, or rickettsias. He did test me for TB which came back positive, but he said my CT scan doesn't show TB. Interesting eh?

    If I don't respond to the Valcyte and the testing for bacterial infections is inconclusive. I thinking maybe I'll see if I can't get a doctor to do the program that Ken Lassensen recommends on his site. Its Dr. Jadin's program where you take a different tetracycline or macrolide for 7 days a month. Its supposed to target mycoplasma and rickettsia. I really don't see the harm in taking a week of Doxy to see if I herx or feel better... but who knows. My sister took months of minocycline, tetracycline, and doxycycline for acne and nobody seemed to care.
    16. Empty2void said: Well, I can see why he wouldn't want to add abx, cause the combination with valcyte would make your liver even more unhappy.
    17. ladybugmandy said: dr. lerner does check viral titres at every visit but i only notice EBV...not HHV6, which is my other infection. he also check CMV, which i do not think i have been exposed to. She states she has CFS. She is also on antivirals, isn’t there an antiviral supplement like oil of oregano?
    18. ladybugmandy: redhummingbird.....i did call dr. lerner's office and he had left a note with the secretary saying i should stop valcyte for a week, test my AST and ALT locally. What is valcyte for? She also said: i have finished my antibiotics now so i hope the liver enzymes are normal in a week and i can re-start the valcyte. i will have to wait to see what he says about the valtrex. What is the valtrex for? I have herpes virus which rarely outbreaks and have that available to me. Is it a good antiviral?
    19. truesun said: I take a high quality St. Johns Wort for my depression. It is a natural antidepressant, antifungal and antibacterial. I buy it at GNC. It is pretty cheap and IT WORKS for me along with my beloved Diflucan
    20. jam338 copied and pasted from a word doc: Dr. Lerner Supplement Recommendations:
    1 centrum multivitamin
    1000 mg vitamin C
    200u Vitamin E
    0.5 mg Folic acid
    one baby aspirin
    50 mg vitamin b-6
    50 mcg Selenium
    800u vitamin D
    21. truesun said: I haven't seen it yet. Dr. Lerner doesn't say much but I trust him. I have read so much of his work and he takes a great deal of slack for his opinions of what causes out illness. Keep on chugging everyone, Truesun First off are they talking about CF or FM as I do have both but more FM.
    If you've gotten this far I applaud you.
    Love, Peace
  2. harmony21

    harmony21 New Member

    becasue I am taking convential meds for various conditions as well I just had too many too take

    My doc says to take a good vitiamin, magnesium and antioxidant and see how you go

    Fish oil, grape or flax is good as well

    Good luck darlin, take what your body says

    angel hugs

  3. JoFMS

    JoFMS New Member


    If I were to start a bunch of supplements when I first had fibro and CFS knowing what I know now, these are the ones I would take:

    Magnesium & malic acid (for muscles, immune system, helps with migraines and lots of fibro symptoms. I use Magnesium, calcium with zinc in malic acid powder which also contains Vit C 500mg.

    Digestive enzymes with every meal to absorb nutrients from food

    Priobiotics after meals to put healthy gut flora back and help fight yeast probs

    L-glutamine first and last thing at night - helps to heal the gut

    Vitamin C - 3g per day divided into at least 3 doses throughout the day (for antioxidant, immune system)

    Vitamin E - 400iu per day (works in conjunction with Vit C as an antioxidant but also useful for much more)

    B complex - if you suspect you have adrenal fatigue or are stressed then would be best to take one with a high level of B5 200-500mg in added to a B complex.

    Flax seed or fish oil or Omega 3, 6, 9 x 2 capsules a day

    You can also add Co-enzyme Q 10 30mg 3 x day as a start, if you get tired and need energy this helps with the ATP cycle. I believe you can increase this to 100mg 3 x day if you need to but gradually.

    I eat 4 brazil nuts in shells for selenium

    I think it's important to start with the gut to make sure you absorb the nutrients and supplements, otherwise it can be a waste of money.

    I found it much easier to order all my supplements using one brand only - a high quality and reputable one so I know I am getting the right quantities and balance for example magnesium and calcium go together with malic acid.

    I use viridian but don't know if they available where you are. I also ensure I use a brand that can give me advice on what supplemtnts to take when such as better absorbed at night etc.

    It may be best to ensure your digestive system is working and take the VIT B complex and magnesium and then add the others after a few weeks so you can see if any effect you.

    I hope this helps, I take additional supplements but I think these are a good starter.

  4. Peace77

    Peace77 New Member

    I would have gotten back to everyone earlier but I quit smoking 2 days ago and have been tied up learning about that. I have printed out many of your ideas and will buy them when I can. I did by a whole food multi vit.mineral and herbal supplement for women to see how I feel on that. My mother knows a lot about this stuff and does a lot. One of her remarks is the liver detox is utmost of importance. She also believes in treating the gut: digestive enzymes and probiotics. I'd love to take coq10 but it is very expensive. Is it really important? I know I need magnesium for sure but wanted to see results of this vit. Since I eat poorly I believe the whole food idea was good which I got from someone here. I got a stomach ache from taking it though even though I took it with food but apparently not enough. The health food store said I didn't need food with it, but that must be for them. I hope this doesn't keep up.
    Thank you so much again and sorry I didn't get back to you sooner.
  5. hugs4evry1

    hugs4evry1 New Member

    Not all vitamins are created equally....

    For the best multi vitamin I've ever taken, it's right here at Pro Health. The Fibro Complete Multi with Malic Acid is a wonderful way to start your day.

    I noticed a difference in how I felt after taking it for 2 days and I never, ever want to be without this multi again. It may appear to be expensive, but we need all the help we can get and it's well worth the price.

    Calcium/Magnesium/Zinc combos are wonderful for our bodies, we're all deficient in this wonderful mineral and this must be taken in combined form to work well in the body and get the results we're all looking for. But mine is a cheap store brand and works just as well as others.

    This may cause loose bowels but I've increased my daily Immodium which I take for IBS-D to counter act the problem.

    I agree with the probiotics and digestive enzymes and take those as well.

    Remember to start slowly with supplements and start them each a week apart so you can see if they're helping you.



  6. Peace77

    Peace77 New Member

    I wish I would have known about the multi from ProHealth because I believe they understand our illness better than most. Also, I had herxheimer affect (headache) for first two days but stuck with it and am doing fine. As you can see its from whole foods. I've taken the manufacturer out but copied the ingredients down. Check the herbs at the bottom of the list. This is what I think was giving me the herx affect (dandelion and licorice). My mom is very educated about these things and said to keep taking it because it's detoxing me. I almost took it back but glad I listened to her because the 3rd day I had no ill effects. I know you all suggest 1 thing at a time (I didn't keep up with post so went ahead and got the all in one)but since my CFS and FMS is so bad I haven't the energy to be cooking all the time. Eating a more healthy diet is a process for me and I'm coming around. Hope all are well. I just quit smoking too and that may have had something to do with the herx reaction because the herbs were getting all the poisons out of my body. Do you know there are 11 different toxic poisons in cigarettes? My pain lessened too when I quit. These are the toxins: acetone, ammonia, arsenic, benzene, benzoapyrene, butane, cadmium, formaldehyde, lead, propylene glycol and turpentine. I hope I NEVER smoke again. Isn't oxygen important for our cells too? And I was destroying my chance of having oxygenated blood. I wonder if this will affect my sleep apnea.
    Thank you for responding, have a pain free day.

    Women’s One Daily
    Vitamins, Minerals & Herbal Formula
    Cold Fusion
    Vegetarian Formula
    No Herbicides, Pesticides, Gluten & Soy

    Ingredients: % Daily Value
    Amount Per Serving

    Vit A (from 7mg) 1667 IU 33
    Vit. C (from 210 mg) 50 mg 83
    Vit. D3 (from 1 mg) 67 IU 17
    Vit. E (from 140 mg) 33 IU 110
    Vit. K1 (from 1 mg) 13 mcg 16
    Thiamine (B-1) (from 15mg) 4 mg 244
    Ribovlavin (B-2) (from 32 mg) 3 mg 176
    Niacinamide (from 42mg) 10 mg 50
    Vit. B-6 (from 19mg) 4 mg 183
    Folate (from 19mg) 267 mcg 67
    Biotin (from 21mg) 8 mcg 138
    Pantothenic Acid (from 32mg) 100 mcg 33
    Calcium (from167mg) 8 mg 77
    Iron (from 120mg) 8 mg <1
    Phosphorus (from 2omg) 6 mg 33
    Iodine (from 3mg) 1 mg <1
    Magnesium (from 167mg) 50 mcg 33
    Zinc (from 67mg) 8 mg 2
    Selenium (from 33mg) 33 mcg 47
    Copper (from 3mg) 33 mcg 2
    Manganese (from 13mg) 0.7 mg 35
    Chromium (GTF) from 17mg) 33 mcg 28
    Molybdenium (from4mg) 8 mcg 11

    Phenoics (from Cold Fusion FoodState)
    Citrus 52mg
    Additional Cold Fusion FoodState
    Beta Carotene 1667 IU
    Choline 10mg
    Inositol 5mg
    Potassium 3mg
    PABA 1mg
    Boron 0.3mg
    Vanadium 3mcg

    Phytonutrient Rich Superior Goods:
    Hydrilla verticillata 50:1 83mg
    Alfalfa Leaf 4:1 33mg

    Tonic Whole Herb Extracts:
    Chatetree Berry (Vitex) 5:1 17mg
    Nettle Leaf 4:1 7mg
    Red Rasberry Leaf 4:1 7mg
    Eleuthero Root 5:1 5mg
    Licorice Root 4:1 5mg
    Wild Green Oat Seed 5:1 3mg
    Ginger Root 5:1 3mg
    Rosemary Leaf 5:1 3mg
    Spring Horsetail Leaf 5:1 3mg
    Yellow Dock Root 4:1 3mg
    Dandelion Leaf 4:1 2mg
    Dandelion Root 4:1 2mg