On ZMA problem - Syndrome X connection?!!!

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by klutzo, Oct 8, 2002.

  1. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    Hi Jaimy, Suze and others who have had the problem with waking up early and not being able to get back to sleep while on ZMA.
    Since we were not getting anywhere just talking to each other about it, I went to the source and called Valco Labs yesterday. They said they had never before heard of anyone having this problem and they would have "Jim" call me back about it. 24 hrs. later Jim still has not called, so maybe he's stumped. If he does ever call me, I'll let you all know. Meanwhile, I slept 2 1/2 very deep hours last night thanks to 1/2 dose of ZMA, but then woke up and didn't get back to sleep until 5 am when I slept 3 more hrs., for a total of 5 hrs. I feel much better than I do without the ZMA. Absolutely no am stiffness. But,I wonder about the long-term effects of sleep deprivation.
    Chalk another one up to the strange chemistry of FMS patients!
    Klutzo
    [This Message was Edited on 10/08/2002]
  2. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    Hi Jaimy, Suze and others who have had the problem with waking up early and not being able to get back to sleep while on ZMA.
    Since we were not getting anywhere just talking to each other about it, I went to the source and called Valco Labs yesterday. They said they had never before heard of anyone having this problem and they would have "Jim" call me back about it. 24 hrs. later Jim still has not called, so maybe he's stumped. If he does ever call me, I'll let you all know. Meanwhile, I slept 2 1/2 very deep hours last night thanks to 1/2 dose of ZMA, but then woke up and didn't get back to sleep until 5 am when I slept 3 more hrs., for a total of 5 hrs. I feel much better than I do without the ZMA. Absolutely no am stiffness. But,I wonder about the long-term effects of sleep deprivation.
    Chalk another one up to the strange chemistry of FMS patients!
    Klutzo
    [This Message was Edited on 10/08/2002]
  3. JP

    JP New Member

    Good work Klutzo.

    I will follow your post to see if you are able to get information from Jim. I have been wanting to try ZMA. I take a upplement that has the same vitamins and minerials and not in the same quanity as ZMA.

    Have fun on your search and wishing you good results...Jan
  4. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    How long have you been on 1/2 the dose? Have you thought about taking the full dose or does it upset your stomach? I never used the ZMA alone but I found it to work synergistically with my Klonopin.

    Love, Mikie
  5. griswoldgirl

    griswoldgirl New Member

    to chemicals. Over the years I have been through some wierd reactions to drugs. I have paradoxal effects, ie.-instead of benedryl making me sleepy, it wires me. valium used to calm me and help with muscle spasms etc-now it aggitates me and makes me nervous-go figure.

    I hope you get some sleep soon, going through a period of unrestful sleep myself-two surgeries in 3 weeks and anesthesia has me wired wrong. I sleep but violent dreams and wake up often. This too shall pass.

    Good luck getting some Z's

    cathy
  6. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    HI Mikie - I stopped taking the full dose of ZMA after about a month and a half when this awakening started. I tried the full dose once last week and got no sleep at all until after 5 am., so the problem does seem to be dose related.
    HI Mickie - Since I know what my Insulin-like growth factor level is (103) and while it is in the normal range, it should ideally be about 300, the ZMA should help. Also, I have zero sex drive, and was figuring I could use extra testerone for that reason. Maybe my hormones aren't as skewered as I thought they were. If it turns out I just can't take this stuff, I will have to buy a seperate Mg supp. and take that at bedtime, since I dropped the Ca/Mg supp. I was taking in favor of plain Calcium, thinking to get my Mg from the ZMA. I really need it , not just for FMS, but also for my MVPS. BTW, I have my hubby on ZMA at 2 caps per night for his MVPS and he says he is sleeping deeper. He hasn't been on it nearly as long as I was when the problem started though.

    Thanks all, for your support and input,
    KLutzo
  7. Suze

    Suze New Member

    ...and that's good! Look forward to your report on your conversation with Jim (should he materialize).

    Thanks,

    Suze

  8. G

    G New Member

    I've never heard of it till today and wonder about it.

    Thanks
    G
  9. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    G - I saw another thread where you answered your own question, so I won't go into it here.
    I called Jim at the lab that invented ZMA again but he never called me back. I got one of the Somers diet books at the library today and settled down to read it tonight and what a surprise I got. There was a probable answer to he ZMA problem staring me in the face. I had read before that one of the risks of hGH injections is that they can cause or increase insulin resistance. I had also read other authors besides Somers who insist that insulin is the real cause of cholesterol and weight problems, not fats. I agree becaue of my personal experience with cutting fat more and more yet getting fatter and fatter. Mickie (Mouse) said that ZMA increases insulin-like growth factor, which is the precursor to hGH, so your hGH will be increased while taking ZMA, which means if you are insulin resistant it will get worse, which explains the sudden 50 pt. jump in my cholesterol 2 mos. after starting ZMA! I have Syndrome X (insulin resistance). So, the way I see it is, ZMA is probably safe and works wonders for people who do not have any symptoms of Metabolic Syndrome (aka Syndrome X aka Insulin Resistance Syndrome), but the rest of us should not take it until we reverse our insulin resistance with a program like Somersize or Syndrome X diet ,or some other high protein, moderate fat,low carb diet. The dramatic rise in insulin will throw off all other hormones, hence the insomnia and maybe other problems we don't even realize. I will be letting my hubby take the ZMA for now, and purchasing some plain old Magnesium to take at bedtime until I lose all the weight from my stomach and normalize my cholesterol profile.
    If this Jim ever calls me, I will ask him about any studies on ZMA and increases in insulin, but I'm not holding my breath.
    Mel and Shirl have had great luck with ZMA.....If my theory is correct then I'm betting they are both normal weight or slim with normal sized tummies and normal lipid profiles, and no diabetic or prediabetic signs. Am I right? Wrong? It took something Ms. Somers said in her book for all the pieces to fall together. BTW,thanks, Mikie, I will be trying this as it is just as easy as the "X"diet and I may lose wt. faster. I finally got the courage to weigh myself today and I have lost 13 lbs. so far.
    Klutzo
    [This Message was Edited on 10/08/2002]
  10. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    Congratulations on your weight loss. You are one fine sleuth; I never saw that in the books. The ZMA inactivated my Guai, so I quit taking it, but it really helped me sleep.

    I do use the Hgh stimulant. It is not supposed to make the body manufacture Hgh unless it is low. Once we start messing with one thing, it can throw off everything else.

    Love, Mikie
  11. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    I am even more sure I am right now that I consider the horrid chills I had been having during my wide-awake periods. Chills are a symptom of too much insulin, and when I dropped the ZMA dose to 1 capsule they went away. Last night I took one ZMA and only got 3 hrs. sleep. I am a wreck today, so no more for me!
    I based everything I said on the premise that "Mouse" is correct that ZMA raises
    IGF-1. I personally have not read this anywhere, but assuming she is correct, it all makes sense. Of course, this does not explain why a very slim person like Jaimy would have the problem with ZMA, so I could still be wrong.

    MIKIE- I read some more of Somers' book since I could not sleep last night. She is far more strict on what constitutes sugar than any diet I've tried and she takes away all the really good sources of potassium except oranges and cantaloupe, which is a major no-no for anyone prone to yeast overgrowth. I am afraid that no yams, carrots or dried apricots will raise my BP. Also, why are oranges OK but not carrots? Doesn't make sense from a glycemic index point of view. I'll keep reading, but it looks like I would have to throw out just about everything in my frig and cupboard to do her plan and the Syndrome X plan does work for me if I stick to it! From my reading so far, it looks like her Level II plan is very close to the X plan.

    MEL- the place I called was Valco Labs, not Barco Labs. I got the name and number off the website that I can't name here. They told me it was Jim I needed to talk to, but it looks like he doesn't want to talk to me!

    Klutzo
    [This Message was Edited on 10/09/2002]
    [This Message was Edited on 10/09/2002]
  12. lilwren

    lilwren New Member

    I am waiting for a couple of books on insulin resistance. BUT, in the mean time your detective work has given me another piece to the (my) puzzle! THANK YOU!!! Gosh I love this board and you folks!

    Love,

    Sharon L