Once again, evidence that FMS includes a peripheral neuropathy

Discussion in 'News and Research' started by KerryK, May 25, 2013.

  1. KerryK

    KerryK Member

    See pubmed article:

    Excessive Peptidergic Sensory Innervation of Cutaneous Arteriole-Venule Shunts (AVS) in the Palmar Glabrous Skin of Fibromyalgia Patients: Implications for Widespread Deep Tissue Pain and Fatigue.


    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23691965
  2. CortJ

    CortJ Moderator

    Thanks Kerry....some really interesting stuff going on with this...Going to have some blogs on this soon on Health Rising...:)
  3. IanH

    IanH Active Member

    Interesting but I think there is more to the peripheral vascular and neuropathic problems.

    There is some evidence for CCSVI (Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency) in people with ME and with FM. We have several patients with this profile. It is also known that the EBV influences CCSVI and it is modulated by high vitamin D doses. This is known from studies in MS. We do need more studies on venous flow in these conditions in addition to those done on peripheral flow affecting neuropathy. But I do not think that the phenomena of peripheral neuropathy can form a basis for understanding the deep pain and other symptoms. While I do not agree with the central sensitization theory there are far too many people with FM that have spinal stenosis. Every one in our clinic. To us this suggests immune system dysregulation wider than in the periphery.
    JeaniB likes this.
  4. KerryK

    KerryK Member

    I doubt that a peripheral neuropathy is the whole explanation. However, I do think it is a part of the syndrome. This new research adds to a handful of similar findings over the last decade or so. I also believe most or all of the "deep" pain is actually peripheral pain, and mostly in the skin. The deepness is, I think, a trick of interpretation. I also do not fully accept the "central pain" hypothesis. The fact that pain of FM in a particular limb can be stopped briefly with a nerve block suggests a peripheral component. I too have been intrigued by the possibility of veinous insufficiency in FM/CFS.
  5. CortJ

    CortJ Moderator

    Wow every one has spinal stenosis....Has anyone with transverse myelitis shown up? I just a friend who tested positive for that...they found one lesion on her spinal cord.
  6. CortJ

    CortJ Moderator

    H
    How about small fiber neuropathy? Are you looking for or finding that?
  7. IanH

    IanH Active Member

    I suppose it depends on what we mean by peripheral. I do not think that FM is "just" a brain dysfunction ie a faulty interpretation of normal sensations but is an interplay between the peripheral NS and the central NS via immune system dysfunction.

    We Have:

    • Alterations in pain-related chemical transmitters have been reported in the spinal fluid (particularly neurokinins (eg.substance P, nerve growth factor, serotonin, norepinephrine, and corticotropin releasing factor)
    • Elevated levels of pro-inflammatory cytokines within the CNS and the PNS (see work done by Prof. Light)
    • Different brain imaging techniques by several research centers have all shown that the blood flow and metabolic processes in the brain are significantly disturbed
    • Almost all people with fibromyalgia report difficulties staying asleep (e.g.,melatonin is depleted)
    • The autonomic nervous system, is not functioning properly
    • Research on the primary pain control system in the spinal cord indicates that it is not filtering out or dampening incoming noxious signals from the peripheral tissues
    • Several research studies pertaining to memory function tests show that people with fibromyalgia have an impaired ability to concentrate
    • Diarrhea and gut dysbiosis is very common in FM
    • Essential tremor is common
    • Muscle cramps in some smooth muscle are common and alleviated with magnesium but not with quinine
    • Morning stiffness and mild ataxia
    To me this all smells strongly of immune dysregulation.

    Re small fibre neuropathy. This is really interesting because many of our patients have described peripheral neuropathic symptoms such as the parasthesias: pins-needles, burning, freezing, creeping and prickling but not much dysthesias. The parasthesias have come and gone with people and as far as I can tell are mostly alleviated by high dose magnesium + CoQ10. We have a few who have had what looks like compartmental syndrome especially with swelling of the calf muscles (but which may be due to stenosis in the lumbar spine).
    JeaniB likes this.
  8. JeaniB

    JeaniB Member

    I've been suffering with FM for years, and I have spinal stenosis. I've had the brain function tests, which showed impaired concentration, and virtually every other symptom you list. I'm glad to see people like you willing to think outside the central sensitization theory box
  9. jaminhealth

    jaminhealth Well-Known Member

    I deal with Spinal Stenosis also, and mine came on after a hip replacement 2.5 yrs ago. Nasty stuff.

    Acupuncture has helped the SS and Anatabloc also with reducing/quieting inflammation.
  10. sunflowergirl

    sunflowergirl Active Member

    Ian.......Several MRIs showed I have both cervical and spinal stenosis. You mentioned essentials tremors is common in FM people. This is the first I've read that. My head shakes, sometimes more than at other times, usually when I'm stressed. I know my mom's head shook terribly and was diagnosed with essential tremors not parkinsons. She had it for at least45 years and I know how she hated dealing with it. And now I seem to have developed it also. Is this inherited?
  11. IanH

    IanH Active Member

    sunflowergirl . . . .Inheritance of essential tremor is complex and is probably due to a gene+environmental factors. However I suspect that people with the HS1BP3 gene who develop an illness such as ME (CFS) will probably develop the tremors, particularly when under stress. I think this is the case with ME and FM for many of the genes involved. This is why we have such variation in symptoms.

    The dysfunction of genes (not producing their proteins properly) is not just inherited but can be a function of epigenetic faults such as in the case of very low levels of vitaminD3.

    Because your mother had essential tremor and you have it then you probably share a polymorphism of the HS1BP3 gene which causes the tremor only after you have an neuro-immune illness that affects your nervous system. (I assume you have ME or FM)
  12. sunflowergirl

    sunflowergirl Active Member

    Thank you Ian for that explanation. It doesn't make me feel better but I guess it's something I have to learn to live with. Yes, I have FM and other junk connected with it. Bummer.