OT: To ANNE CROMWELL RE: Tabby

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by cjr2003, Feb 25, 2006.

  1. cjr2003

    cjr2003 New Member

    Hi Anne :>) I know you are probably pooped out from all of your tests that you have had in the past 3 or 4 days, but I had a few questions for you when you get the time if you wouldn't mind posting to.
    I have joined a message board for individuals with pets who have CRF and have put a post on the board, but the last post on the board is from August of 2005, so I am not too confident that I am going to get an answer back on the questions that I put in my post there. It is on ezboard.com - the feline CRF site. It is a different kind of message board vs. like our FM one. Only certain individuals that run the site actually answer the posts. I signed up for another one but they haven't sent me a confirmation email so that I can post on the site yet; it is w/ Yahoo groups.
    Anyhow, Tabby was put on Enalapril ( Ace Inhibitor med) yesterday, and after her first dose, she was very lethargic,sleepy,kind of dopey,drowsy,and slept for hours afterward. It kind of scared me and the vet is not in on weekends except for emergencies. So, I have been directed to give her 1/4 of a pill twice daily. Her first yesterday about 4pm was 1/4 of a pill. Had to wrap it in cheese to get her to take it. Didn't have any luck getting it down otherwise. The whole process of even trying it that way stressed her out immensely. Today, I waited and gave her a second dose at 2pm and gave her 1/8 of a pill wrapped in cheese and grass wrapped around the cheese. I would imagine that cheese probably isn't the best thing for her right now; vet said no table scraps, but I have no other choices that I know of or can think of to get it in her system. She is crazy about grass and inhaled the grass/cheese pill today. Wouldn't eat it w/ just the cheese today. Have really had to encourage her to eat since yesterday. Gave her a little of the old canned food to get her to start eating, since I don't have the RX canned food yet. I cut up grass and put it into her dry food and she went crazy over that. Whatever it takes to keep her eating. Does your cat have any type of reactions to the med the vet has prescribed for him? Does he sleep alot since being ill? I am not giving Tabby the 2nd dose of her med each day yet because I am not sure if the sedative affect it has on her is "normal". She also seems to hurt. She doesn't like me to pick her up anymore and that concerns me. Is your cat like that ? I really appreciate you reading this and getting back w/ me when it is convenient for you. I hope that you are resting comfortably after the stress of the past 3 or 4 days. I am so glad that they have not found anything life threatening. I know you are too! :>) LOL and take care, Carla
  2. Cromwell

    Cromwell New Member

    Sorry about this happening.

    My cat is on Benazepril, quite a small pill, scored. Kitty is 15 lbs and he is on 2.5mg a day (that is half a pill)

    This is how I give the pill, I open his mouth and throw it to back of throat, then close his mouth, blowing on his nose and stroking his thoat to make him swallow. I realize my other cats would not be as compliant when I try this, Kitty is OK with it. I think a little fish paste may work. There is one you can get in a tube, it is cream cheese with anchovy I think-just make sure no onion powder or garlic or onion in it. I don't think I would worry about a little cheese-in fact, it is the quality of the protein Tabby will get, and when cats won't eat, any quality protein won't hurt. It is the phosperous one needs to watch. My vet even told me that if it came to it I could use scrambled egg for the protein.

    Kitty does very well with this pill, and is also taking a thyroid med in the pm. I think the biggie for him is definately the Omega 3 and 6 capsule pierced and squeezed in his mouth. He is not sleeping more, but less I think.

    I know my vet only uses the type if Ace inhibitor she gave to me. It also is quite cheap, like 50c a day. He seems to be doing better.

    As he would not eat the KD diet I also found that Purina do a urinary diet at pet smart, which is a little less than ideal, but it has 28% protein and about .7 phosperous which is only slightly more than the KD and the main thing is he likes it.

    I think just try if you can to go with the flow, let Tabby rest up and try and heal and just make sure that is the right Ace Inhibitor and moreso, the right dosage as I think you said she was little.

    Cats are like this, they will either thrive or not, and you are doing what you can. I also think that if she likes a little sardine in tomato sauce, a tiny bit for her may boost her appetite a little. Did your vet also run thyroid test as I understand the two conditions go together and thyroid makes them sleepy.

    I think Tabby has been through a lot, and probably needs a little R and R. This is how I am accepting Kitty's CRF. I think that I will give the pills, try the best diet he will eat, let him alone to rest up, keep him warm and loved, and just pray he will make it, but if he starts sliding, I think I will just know it is his time. He is my favorite cat, I hand reared him from 2 days old and he is siamese cross tabby.

    I would be happy to call my vet on Monday and check that med. How old again is Tabby and what weight-I presume she is fixed.

    I don't know how I would feel about stressing with the flushing again, I will ask my vet. She did tell me that it takes a while to see a change in the blood work, and this is why she is not re testing until we leave it 8 weeks between bloods, which is another 6 weeks slightly less.

    I know how worried you are, and I wish I could help more, and I send you prayers and a hug.

    Always contact me. My test results were not as scary as I first thought. Some problem with the aorta, but it may be very mild, and we can address it also, it could be normal for me, that I will find out next week.

    So I have nothing to do as I cannot exercise till they see me next week, so it is a good time to talk. Also, as the pill may relax the pain in the kidneys this may be why Tabby is sleeping. Kitty seems very much more relaxed for sure. We have four cats so maybe he would be sleepier-heck all my cats sleep a lot-but there is always a cat jumping on another. I am going to google the pill you mentioned and check it out.

    Much Love,

    Anne C

    I wish I could just send my vet over to you.
    [This Message was Edited on 02/25/2006]
  3. cjr2003

    cjr2003 New Member

    . . . YOU ARE JUST A GODSEND! Thankyou so much for getting back w/ me so quickly and for all the info./thoughts. Big hugs and appreciation to send you way! (((( H U G )))))
    Tabby is about 9 pounds - weighed her yesterday. Read that it was important to keep up with her weight. I am going to say Tabby is 13. Although it is possible that she is a year or so older. I got her as a stray and we had to guesstimate how old she was when I decided to keep her, and yes, Tabby is fixed.:>). . . . I have been wondering this whole time if this Enalapril is going to do what your vet has in mind for your kitty/ if my vet has prescribed the right med for her needs. I have a lot of faith in my vet, I really do, but your vet sounds more educated to me or more aware of options for treatment. I wish you could send your vet over here! :>) I tried calling other local vets to get a "second opinion",but they are all closed for the weekend. . . . you know, I cannot remember if my vet checked Tabby's thyroid; I want to say that he DID, because I had a list of things that I wanted to make sure he checked the day that I saw him and I am pretty confident that he had checked it, yes, and it was normal, that was on the very first bloodwork that he did that only took like 10 minutes to find the results of.
    Anne, that would be SO WONDERFUL if you would ask your vet about that med. I want to make sure that Tabby is taking a med that is going to help stimulate her appetite and help her in any way that it can like this Ace Inhibitor is supposed to. I had googled the Ace Inhibitor and got a real good reading on how there is "one" it said, that has been proven to be helpful in cats with renal failure. This is why I worry that she is not on the "one" that works, because it is different than yours.
    I may still call a few other vets to get their take on Tabby's condition and ask what they would do for treatment. I have heard of doing these subq fluids at home every day or every other day, but I am not sure I could do it to my baby. She is so sensitive to pain, and that might be like torture for her. My mom had to do that to her cat and she did it for 2 weeks and then decided to let nature take it's course w/ her kitty because the pain was just too much for mom to bear to put her through. But her kitty's kidney function returned to normal, and she actually died a year later from lung cancer.
    I have been trying to let Tabby rest more today. I have been a bit obsessive about checking in on her every other minute it seems, but, today, I have just let her do her thing, and she comes out of her little room in the a.m. and is getting around more each day. It just seems like the treatment traumatized her, and she hasn't been quite herself since. She is even scared of me at times, because I have to give her meds to her, and we had a few rounds where I would hold her and attempt to push her mouth open to slip the pill in, but she fought it all the way! that really got her stirred up and mad at me and I just hate that so I got the cheese and the grass out and snuck the pill in that way.Thank goodness it worked.
    It gives me hope from what you have said about your vet saying it takes 6-8 weeks to see a change in the bloodwork. I am hoping and praying that there will be an improvement; but I am also bracing myself because if her bloodwork actually showed higher numbers after the treatment, I have to be realistic that Tabby could be going downhill and fast. That makes me cry when I think of it, she is my BABY, and the very thought of burying her just rips my heart in 2. I have had her so long!
    So you have a house full of kitties! That sounds so nice! I imagine you have a bunch of cat boxes too! When I lived w/ my mom and dad (till I was 30 years old!), they had 2 cats and they romped and played after we all went to bed like madcats. IT is always a treat to go home to mom and dad's and see them, well, just the one is alive now, and his name is Cid. He loves to play,play,play - with anyone who will play with him! He goes over to his basket of toys and picks out the one he wants to play with, and puts it in his mouth and brings it to you! and you throw his toy across the room and he goes and gets it and brings it right back to you! He is a big sweetie! :>))))))))))))))

    Let me know if you find out more specifics on the Enalapril. The pill is a 5mg pill and I am directed to give her 1/4 of a pill twice daily. ??????????????? - could Tabby's kidney's actually be hurting? Is this why she moans when I pick her up?

    Just had a thought. . . I could try putting the pill in Tabby's hair ball gel that she licks off my finger. She is crazy crazy about that gel - will have to try it.
    Am going to ask my vet about the Omega 3&6. What specifically is that good for?
    Is tuna juice ok to give her? I read somewhere to give them tuna juice to spark the appetite.

    Well, I had better go. I have church in the a.m. and am getting up very early, and it is getting late over here.
    Thankyou for the prayers and hug, and please know I am praying for you over here! :>) I am going to go to bed now and rest up, and will check back with you online when I get up in the a.m.
    Thankyou so very much for your kindness in helping/sharing with me. I love my Tabby so much, and want her to have a good quality of life for whatever time she has left; just want the best for her. Talk to you soon.
    Blessings and Love,
    Carla
  4. cjr2003

    cjr2003 New Member

  5. cjr2003

    cjr2003 New Member

  6. Cromwell

    Cromwell New Member

    The Omega 3 and 6 oil combo is excellent for kidney disease!!! My vet was adamant no good to retest for a while due to it taking a recovery. I think what your mom did sounds a good decision, and we always have to think of stress.

    Yes, prior to being on the Ace Inhibitor Kitty would cry when we picked him up, plus he would throw up a lot, which we also mistakenly thought to be hair balls. Giving the pill in the hairball gel sounds great to me.

    He has now stopped crying when we pick him up and stopped throwing up. Again, although his thyroid was only borderline, my vet felt that for older cats, a low dose does them a lot of good.

    I think tuna fish is probably too salty and you should be avoiding salt, which is a biggy, but maybe if you had something that was oily -check the salt content.

    Yes, we have a lot of boxes and I just found a new litter that is the BEST i ever used, plus after you scoopp poop out you can put it as a mulch around the trees. It is called Cederific. There are absolutely no smells, it is highly absorbent and very lightweight. The cats loved it right away. It is so popular that it sells off the shelf at our local store and Petsmart don't carry it. It is $4 for a big bag, that weighs only about 4lb but is as much as a 35lb normal type litter bag.

    We have a disused bathroom in our new house(was never connected) that is off the sunroom and excellent for the trays. As it will cost about $3,000 to connect the bathroom this may never happen and so that may be the cat-loo.

    I think you are taking such good care of your little love there. I will get back to you tomorrow hopefully. Remember that my kitty's function was only 25% and my vet thought he would do fine. I have also had cats that just wanted to give up too, especially old strays that we were guestimating age of.

    We missed church -tell the truth we have yet to find one here, but meant to go today, but we were all wiped out as DH meds went haywire too-OK now praise be.

    Love Anne C
  7. cjr2003

    cjr2003 New Member

    Thankyou Anne for EVERYTHING. I so appreciate your patience and time. Just loved hearing about the cat-loo and the great tip on kitty litter. I have been coaxing Tabby to perk up with bringing her grass. This seems to be the only thing she gets "perky"/excited about right now. She is very drowsy and so I have opened the window today for her to smell the fresh air and she is luving that!:>) The temp here is in the high 50's. Still having to encourage her to eat, and she is mostly eating grass at the moment. I am a bit concerned that Tabby is "giving up". I have never seen her like this before; so heavily tired and ill looking/acting. I am hoping that this is considered "normal" for the time and that she is going to level out and the diet/med's are going to help her. I look forward to hearing what your vet has to say about the Enalapril.:>) and anything else! Got through church today good. Last Sunday am I cried through the last 2 songs pitifully. ( had dear kitty on my mind) I don't think anyone noticed; if they did, they didn't approach me about it. I hate being away though for very long. I am like a mother worried about her sick child I guess! Hope your husband is feeling better. I am assuming DH is "dear husband"?!:>) Take care and best wishes to you and yours, Carla
  8. cjr2003

    cjr2003 New Member

  9. cjr2003

    cjr2003 New Member

  10. cjr2003

    cjr2003 New Member

    Anne, I just read this online article that the use of Benazepril in the U.S. is rare because it is so "unknown" by many vets in the U.S. Are you from the U.S. ?? It has just dawned on me that you might not be; I was thinking you had said your vet was Danish? Just wondering?!!:>)))))) Carla
  11. Cromwell

    Cromwell New Member

    Live here in Upstate NY.

    Yes so does my wonderba Danish vet.

    So she gets pill here.

    That Danish Royal College of Vet med is the world's best and I say that with links to Cornell! It is just terrific and so is she.

    Re food. You know, I think so long as food is not too salty and low is phosperous (like this Purina Urine one) I am not going to have my Kitty starve, as that is no good either. The cat we inherited with the house, he goes and scoffs down the KD diet. The rest have Royal Canin 27. That may be a try for you, as it is 27 protein and .63 phosperous in indoor senior version and only slightly more .7 phosperous in regular 27. Purina has 31 protein and ,7 phosperous. As he does not eat much I am not stressing over the 31 protein although the KD is 24 protein and only ,3 pospherous which is ideal. I am still trying to sneak it in, and hope Kitty will adjust to it.

    I think the vet can give flavor enhancer to put over food too.

    Boy it is cold here tonight, I envy 50 degrees, it is like 4 here. Brrrrrr. Does anyone read the Lillian Jackson Braun Cat Who books, about the reporter and his two cats. They are great. I have most of them. He lives near a place called BRRRRRRRRR. Praying for Tabby and Kitty too.

    Love Anne C
  12. cjr2003

    cjr2003 New Member

    That I know of, Tabby has only eaten grass today. I have even tried tying long strands of grass to her little pebbles of cat food, and I am beginning to wonder if the inside of her mouth is hurting and that is why she is not eating the cat food. When she tries to eat the cat food with the grass tied around it, she shakes her head "violently" like shes trying to break it up real quick without hurting her mouth. She has been on an oral anitbiotic,liquid, for a small mouth infection she had that the vet noticed 10 days ago. Oh my goodness! I stand corrected. Tabby is eating the canned cat food as I type this that I put out for her a few minutes ago! She just had some grass; maybe that stimulated her appetite?! :>) I had not seen her drink any water all day so I put water in her dropper that her antibiotic came with and held her little head and gave her about 5 dropper's full. She didn't like it very much to be held down for a few minutes. :>( I want to give her a bath, but fear that would put her over the edge! She hasn't had a bath since she saw the vet and she had urinated everywhere those two days from the sedative and from being scared the 2nd day. I picked up a shampoo for her at the vet's. She seems to have dandruff too! Didn't know kitties could get dandruff. Her coat looks awful. Her last bath was not that long ago either. Maybe a few months ago? yeh. Tabby is our roaming in the living room and rest of house now that hubby is in the bed. When he is up and about, she stays put in her room. Is terrified of him. Is terrified of anyone other than ME. Tabby was looking very very ill earlier today. She vomited once, and then seemed to look and feel better. I am definetly having second thoughts about this med the vet put her on . On the online info. the side effects stated of this med are: possible kidney failure,vomiting,changes in urination,DECREASED APPETITE,and sudden lethargy. How could any vet put a kitty on this med w/ these side effects when they know the kitty has CRF? I am so confused. Well, tomorrow I hope to have some answers! I am anxious to hear what your vet thinks and have all this info. printed out to talk to my vet about as well.
    It's only 4 degrees in NY!!!! And that was earlier, it has probably gotten colder since then!!!!!!!! Whew! I used to live in Ohio and in the wintertime, I froze my hiney off living close to lake Erie. The wind and cold that would come off the Lake was UNREAL!! The winter's here in Arkansas are a joke! I miss the snow and the slowing of the businesses/people in the dead of wintertime. This winter has been like some kind of Elnino or Lanina or whatever. We had 60 and 70 degree weather in January, and the first time it ever really got cold and acted wintery was last weekend, and it is supposed to get up to 80 degrees this Wed. here. Can u believe that ? It is stifling here in the summer , I hate it. But, I am stuck here it looks like for life. My husband has his business here and his family and will never ever move. So, I sweat and suffer July - mid October, and then when November comes I go into flareups from the season changing to colder weather. Fibro just makes our lives so interesting doesn't it?
    Have never heard of the Lilian Jackson Braun Cat Who books? Will have to check that out! :>)
    I better go, time to hit the bed, it is 11:20 here. Have been icing my foot for hours now. Had a collision this morning w/ the rocker and this evening, 12 hours after the bang, I was limping horrifically and couldn't put any pressure on my foot w/out severe pain. Very weird that I walked on this foot all day , went to church in am and pm and to a baby shower this afternoon, and it took it hours before it swelled and hurt real bad; very weird this body of mine how it works! Pain is better now that I iced it. CAn put more pressure on it again. oh well, ta ta!! Talk to you soon. Love and hugs and prayers for kitties!:>) Carla
  13. Cromwell

    Cromwell New Member

    I would just give her the food she likes best.

    She seems overloaded right now and I wonder if oral antibiotic and other meds are bad combo.

    I just called my vet who is in surgery right now, so she will get back to me re the Enalapril. My gut feeling is that it may be wrong med, but let's wait and hear from my vet. I would hold off till we hear.

    What food doe Tabby normally eat? I would just let her eat her close to normal food just for a couple of days as changes in diet are bad for them too. Maybe she does not need all the grass either as she is on hairball gel.

    My cats all tend to eat in the dark or when alone. The KD looks as if they ate none but is highly concentrated, so they eat a tablespoon.

    I would hold off bathing her too, due to chills, she will bathe herself and shampoos are sometimes not good for them esp. when they are sick.

    Just keep her warm and let her have a chance to recover slowly, wander round etc. She is timid and all this deal at the vets has probably thrown her for a loop. Also her mouth could be sore.

    Most canned food are lower in protein so that is OK just steer clear of salty ones. You can call 1800 number and ask for phosperous content or some list on the Web.

    I would just let her rest up and see how it goes. Keep on putting out canned food and mak sure you add a little warm water to it to wram it out of fridge.

    Love Anne C
  14. cjr2003

    cjr2003 New Member

    Good morning:>) Anne, I skipped Tabby's dose of the oral antibiotic last night on purpose. Wanted to see if it changed anything. This am she went to her K/d diet bowl and ate a decent amount and drank water on her own. Seems to be feeling better this morning - have not given her any Enalapril since 4pm yesterday and no oral antibiotic since yesterday early am. I have one of every kind of cat food sitting out for her to choose from. Just want her to eat:>) Thanks for all the suggestions :>) All this is so new to me. Tabby has never been sick before this and I need all the help one has to offer! I await the news of your vet's opinion! :>) Love, Carla
  15. Cromwell

    Cromwell New Member

    cHECK UNDER YOUR TITLE NAME i POSTED THIS PM FROM MY VET. lOVE aNNE
  16. MamaR

    MamaR New Member

    I haven't been here in awhile.

    I sure hope that Tabby continues to feel better!

    I just couldn't read much tonight.......sort of scanned to see if she was o.k.....and it looks like she is!

    I hope that you are doing alright too!!

    Thinking about you....Mari
  17. cjr2003

    cjr2003 New Member

    Hi :>) HOW ARE YOU DOING? You know, I had been thinking about you today! I hadn't noticed your name on the board for the past few days when I was on, and had wondered if maybe you were in a flare/not feeling too well. How have you been feeling?? My dr. started me on Lyrica late last week - thought that might give me some relief from the cyst pain I am still struggling with. It is a med designed to give relief from nerve pain. You know, my scalp and body have not itched one bit since starting on this new med, and it has taken care of the nerve pain I was struggling with. It has helped with the cyst pain, but I am still sore quite a bit and can physically feel the fact that there is a cyst there everyday. But at least I am not confined to the couch for hours at a time now, and am up and out and doing more than I have in months and months. :>) Yes, Tabby has had a good, good day today and she seems to finally be improving from how terribly ill she has been since she had her treatments at the vets office. Am hoping and praying I can keep her feeling this way for a long time. I stayed up with her til 2am Monday morning keeping a close eye on her and encouraging her to eat. At one point, I was tying long strands of grass around her RX dry cat food. She goes crazy over grass! It is good to hear from you! Blessings and love, Carla