Pain meds.....can they be avoided by detoxing????????

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by Hippen, Jul 23, 2003.

  1. Hippen

    Hippen New Member

    I have had Cfids/fibro for 8 years and never had to take prescription pain meds. I was at a point of my disease that I hurt really bad....and decided to start detoxing my body which gained control of my pain. Just wondering if I had not started detoxing...if i would have needed pain meds? Maybe I have a higher threshold for pain? I used to cry from the pain sometimes...mostly because it scared me...wondering what the heck was causing me to hurt when all blood tests and x rays came back clear. I have Dr. Garth Nicolson to thank for saving me from the pain. He helped a whole family with this DD. The Mom was in a wheelchair from the pain and the Dad was getting ready for a wheelchair. I think that a lot of this pain from cfids/fibro can be reversed and avoided...just my opinion from my experience. Thinking the congestion of the cells presses against the nerves, muscles, and soft tissue in our bodies...causing pain. Also, thinking that some of us have additional problems like bad discs in back etc. that are aggravated by the congestion of the cells and soft tissue. I just worry that some people are taking the pain meds to fight the pain without fighting the fungus and bacteria that lives deep in our cells. I am saying this because I have fought the major pain and I want you all to do the same. I consider myself mostly with Cfids now rather than the fibro. When I first was diagnosed..it was with Fibro !!!!!!!!!!!! Every part of my body hurt to the touch and I often got stuck sitting on the couch and could not stand up without help. The detox.....sick stomach...extensive sweating.....aggravated brain fog....going to the bathroom all the time was not easy ...trust me !!! I thought I was gonna die at times...but in the long run I am in better shape than I was before. Years ago, I remember trick or treating with my daughter...having to walk a few feet then sit down and rest from the pain. I was 28 years old at the time...that was definitely not normal !!!!!!! Please fight..please clean out your bodies....please do not settle for dealing with the pain. I know you HURT !!!!!! This message board is meant for others to give advice for things that have helped them through this disease. I have read many posts that really make me worry !!!! people talking about pain meds that they take and no description of what they are doing to fight the pain in other ways. I am trying to help the best way I can. If I could come to each and every house and help you all through this I would! I am a teacher and maybe that is why I feel the frustration so deeply when I am not heard. I am not saying that the pain meds are not needed ...I am just saying that you need to fight the cause of the pain. Hippen
    [This Message was Edited on 07/23/2003]
  2. MiahRoo

    MiahRoo New Member

    I fully agree that pain meds simply supress the symptoms and in no way fix the actual problem. But over the years I've tried numerous detox therapies, diets, suppliments, fasting...you name it I've tried it the 'natural' way. For years I just dealt with the pain, nausea, dizziness, fog, migraines etc etc etc with no drugs at all. I've never trusted traditional medicine because of the fact it is more symptom oriented rather than healing oriented. I think many of us reached a point where we had tried so many things with no relief that pain medications were our last option. For me they were the first thing to make me feel better. The pain is under control, which allows me to also get decent sleep. I would do anything, ANYTHING!, to feel better without the medications but not a darn thing I have tried has done me much good. Soon I will be trying a raw food diet to see if perhaps that will help me heal and relieve my symptoms but I no longer feel so guilty for taking pain medications. They are the only thing so far that allow me to function a little bit.

    What exactly did you do to 'clean' your body? I'm willing to try pretty much anything to get my life back to a somewhat normal place. I fully agree that fighting the cause of the pain and other symptoms is the best thing to do. But really who knows what the cause is? There are a ton of theories of course but I just never know which way to turn. What's your theory and what action did you take? Thanks.
  3. Hippen

    Hippen New Member

    is not an easy thing to do...it takes a lot of work and patience. When I first started cleaning my body...I had my husband massage my body for me and it hurt so bad. It felt like every inch of my skin was bruised...on the inside. I would feel sick to my stomach the next day and would have to run to the bathroom often. Toxins were being released and needed to come out. I talked to my doctor about the research I had come across and she believed me...LOL. It took about three tries to find a doctor that believed me !!!!!!!!! I told her that it was suggested that I take antibiotics for a long period of time but that I wanted to try OLE instead. I was afraid of the side effects of long term antibiotic usage. She agreed with me. I started on the Ole and it was used in combination with sweating therapy. I would kill the viruses and bacteria with the OLE and sweat the toxins out of my body. I wore a plastic sweatsuit...made especially for sweating...these suits can be found. I wore clothes underneath the plastic suit and when I took the suit off...my clothes were drenched underneath. The sweat was very , very thick and had a distinct odor. I had to make sure I drank plenty of water to avoid dehydration. Potassium supplements were also added....sweating and diahrrea cause potassium loss which can be dangerous !!!! I immediately saw results in my pain diminishing. I also used the sauna room at the local gym...it felt so good to sweat...sweat ....sweat !!!! The massages had to continue...focusing on the major lymph node areas. This helped the blockage clear in my lymph system. I had a swollen lymph node in my right groin area ( at the top of my leg) that had been there for about 12 years and it was now GONE !!!!!!!!! I began massaging my body at night while lying in bed. It hurt but I could feel a weird tingling sensation that felt like fluid was moving in my lymph system that has not moved in years. I pictured (with my mind) the fluid moving out of my body towards my kidneys as I fell asleep. I continued the Ole, massages, and sweating for about a year. I stopped the Ole for about a year to give my body a chance to rest. The only symptom that returned after stopping the ole was my IBS. I continued the massages and sweating and the major pain HAS NOT RETURNED !!!!! I started taking colloidal silver and placed it under my toungue before bed. This also helped build my immune system and found that I got sick less from my immune deficiency syndrome. The colloidal silver is not good to take for long periods of time because it is a heavy metal. Viruses can't live with silver for some reason. Recently, I started on the OLE again and found that even more symtoms have improved. I am now taking Guai and for the first time my brain fog has lifted. Garth said that this condition did not happen overnight and it will not go away over night...it could take years. I have been fighting the toxins under my skin and in my lymph system for years and am now ready to fight the toxins deep in my cells...the ones that have hidden. That is why I am taking the Guai with the OLE. We need to fight the toxins in our body to take the load off of our immune system so that it may heal and begin working again. A good mental attitude is paramount...visually heal yourself also. The mind is a very powerful thing if you let it be !!!! This all sounds like a lot of work...I know it does. Unfortunately, I have this DD and fighting it has become a part of my day to day life...just like doing the dishes...LOL. If something hurts...fight it...massage it...sweat it out...don't cover up the pain with meds. I have improved...I have no reason to lie about the benefits of my self planned treatment. I have improved...I work as a teacher...I take care of my 8 year old daughter. I have days where I am really tired...and I sleep many hours when I can...a sign that my body is healing. Our bodies have the ability to heal themselves when they are not overloaded with thick toxic junk that glues everything together. My husband has been great over the years...at first he was not. I did what I had to do whether he believed me or not...this is my body and my life and if he wanted to come along for the ride he could. He laughed at my plastic sweatsuit look until he saw how much better I felt afterwards. People say that they are so frustrated because they can't find a good doctor...well we are our own doctors for now...until they come up with a cause and cure for everyone. I basically do not care if anyone believes me or not...I am sick and that is the bottom line. Cleaning the body may not be a cure...but it has helped me from becoming bed ridden...and I was so very close !!!!!!!!!! It can't hurt you as long as you drink plenty of water and watch your potassium levels and other electrolyte balances. Make sure you tell your doctor about anything you are taking or doing. My doctor says if it is working keep doing it...as long as it is not hurting me. She tests my metabolic panel often which checks for electrolyte balances and writes my prescription for potassium supplements. Even she has seen improvements in me due to my fewer visits to her office. I hope this will help some of you get a grip on this DD. Don't let it get you completely..fight back. Hippen
  4. pearls

    pearls New Member

    The first thing to do is to get pain under control! I agree that it is very difficult for fibromyalgia patients to go after the "cause" when even doctors don't really know what the cause is yet. I'll do everything possible to take care of myself, eat reasonably healthfully, etc. etc., but pain medications make it possible for me to get myself together enough to do those things. As long as I am in pain, I refuse to be without them.

    Pain is dangerous. It gets in the way of clear thinking. It makes relationships difficult. It can lead cause cascades of other medical problems such as trigger points. And it can even lead people into suicide.

    While I don't trust every professional out there, I have faith that most medical people are intelligent people doing the best they can. They are not God so they certainly don't have all the answers. But neither am I! I take responsibility for my illness by doing what I mentioned before plus learning all I can about it.

    Another very important part of my responsibilies is to assemble a medical team that will work with me. It has to be the best combination of people I can find. But once I find them, while I discuss everything openly with each one of them, and while I make ultimate decisions as to what to do, I still must trust their judgement - or find new members of my team. Since I live in a small town, that is not so easy. That means I can't go running after a new doctor or other health professional over every little thing. In the end, I am a good patient because I cannot be my own doctor. I simply do not have the education for that! There's a fine line between taking responsibility for my own health, but not being my own doctor, but it is very important to walk that fine line.

    -Pearl
  5. tandy

    tandy New Member

    your story makes sense~ I am on pain meds(mild)and would LOVE something stronger......I guess i'm funny in that I HATE to be in pain all the time!! I"ve read about cleansing/detox and thats a thought to consider.Adding the sauna to make yourself sweat out the toxins is a plus also!!I agree with alot of what your saying. I have been looking into the OLE as a next step.I've gotten some info from a member here~What dose did you start with that?and how often?? I'm acually heading to the mall to celebrate my little guys 7th Birthday.They have a few health food/nutrition stores there,I might get my OLE tonight!!!
    I'm aware of the herxing....did you have a problem with that? Thanks for any help you can offer!!
    :)
  6. Hippen

    Hippen New Member

    I started out with 300 mg in the morning and 300 mg. at night before bed total of 600 mgs. of OLE a day. You can get OLE just about anywhere. I do not think that it matters what brand...just as long as it has at least 20%Oleuropein in it...the active ingredient that comes from the olive leaves. I am so glad that you are thinking about trying it !!!! Please try the sweating process as well while using care as I said before...watch your potassium levels and drink lots of water !!!! I would like to know if you feel anything happening in your body while taking it. So, keep us up to date on your progress and don't give up...no matter what !!!!! This can't be fixed over night. Love, Hippen
  7. pearls

    pearls New Member

    Okay, Hippen, I have an open mind. Please tell me what OLE is.

    Love,
    Pearl
  8. Hippen

    Hippen New Member

    OLE is Olive Leaf Extract and it can be purchased at any vitamin store. I have even purchased it at my local grocery store. It comes in pill form and is not dangerous to consume. I am so glad that you have an opened mind...*smile*. Like i said this is not a cure all...but it is a start to get yourself on the path to recovery. Please re-read my above posts explaining the importance of sweating and the care that needs to be followed if one plans to do alot of sweating. Herxing can discourage many people because you tend to get worse for awhile before you get better...but this passes. Just think about it.....these toxins are quite comfortable being inside your body...they are not going to go without a fight. Your body has become accustomed to being sick and clogged...when you start clearing it out it is not going to feel good right away. When we have an infection and or a virus, our bodies temperature increases why? Because it is our bodies responding to the sickness. Viruses and bacteria are killed by increased body temps. When we raise our body temp on our own, we are creating an environment that is not pleasing to these organisms. Our body reacts to the increased temp by sweating...trying to cool down the body externally. We also sweat out toxins that have accumulated in our cells and under the skin. I am not a doctor or an expert on this DD...I can only tell you what has helped be gain some control back of how my body feels and functions. It actually feels really nice to have some control finally. The tingling that I feel in my body feels alot better than the horrible pain that I used to feel. I can stretch my body now without getting a painful cramp in that area being stretched...sound familiar? I have very high hopes for many of you that you may also find some improvement. If I was unable to dress myself and had to be in a wheelchair...I would have my hubby help me put my plastic sweatsuit on so I could sweat !!! If any of you try this method please let me know how you are doing...progress no progress whatever the case may be. I do care. Love, Hippen
  9. judywhit

    judywhit New Member

    about cleansing the body....but...pain medication if used properly and not abused can actually stop the progression of this dd. I am always curious as to why it bothers some that others have made the choice to use pain meds to help combat this dd. Many of us are using opiods along with the natural supplements. The quality of my life is awesome. I ride my horse in the mountains and camp with my dogs, horses and hubby every weekend. Could I do this without the aid of opiods??? I doubt it.
    I am pleased that the quality of your life is better with your cleansing regime. I think we must all find what works for us as individuals and not worry about the next poster who has chosen pain meds.
    Judy
  10. judywhit

    judywhit New Member

    what made me ponder on your post was the statement that I copied below in your original post.

    "I have read many posts that really make me worry !!!! people talking about pain meds that they take and no description of what they are doing to fight the pain in other ways."
    also the heading of your post was "pain meds?????"
    so, this makes me wonder if indeed, you are trying to share your success with cleansing or questioning why some resort to pain meds. A better name would have been "sucess with cleansing" and not mention the meds at all.

    In answer to your question- it is difficult on a message board to tell others how they deal (fight) the pain. Usually we are just answering questions and sharing about what treatments have helped us. For me with the help of pain meds I am able to enjoy Gods beauty by riding my horse in places that few will ever see (see my profile). 6hrs in a saddle is no small feat! Opiods have given me my life back!
    I just have a problem when those that have never used pain meds tell others that their natural way should be tried first. when used under the supervision of a doctor and are not abused they are a "godsend". You should not worry about others taking pain meds. That is what bothered me in your post. I do not get high off of these meds. I can totally function and lead a productive life. Are they hurting me physically? I do not think so, in fact opiods are very benign and do little if any harm to the body. Would one rather have one taking 1500mg of motrin per day? Talk about a drug that rips the belly and liver apart!
    no one should assume that those on pain meds have not tried many other treatments before resorting to these meds. I also must say it is not really a big deal. I am glad that you are going to do a search into opiod use. Thank you for sharing what helped you. Just tired of defending the use of drugs that have given many back their lives.

    Judy

    [This Message was Edited on 07/23/2003]
  11. Hippen

    Hippen New Member

    toxins and mycoplasmas that have invaded our bodies from having a weakened immune system. This theory of toxins is only supported by those people that believe in the scientific research by doctors on this matter. Some people do not believe in the toxin theory and therefore should find another method that makes them "happy" and makes them feel better. My husband used to drink alot and instead of sweating out the alcohol...he used the alcohol in his system to be mean to me. Thinking if he would have just SWEATED IT OUT !!!!!!! I would not have to be dealing with this DD due to a weakened immune system due to stress !!!! I read a post by you talking about massaging lymph nodes. This is similiar to that method of relief. My lymph nodes no longer swell due to having many toxins released by my body. Did you know that when lymph systems clog up that the toxic lymph leaks out of the lymph channels into your cells because it has no place else to go? When I first started detoxing..I was releasing thick lymph fluid through my skin with my sweat. A lymph node at the top of my leg was swollen for 12 years and has finally gone away. I know that detoxing is not right for everyone but I really do not see how it could hurt. Hippen
  12. judywhit

    judywhit New Member

    I totally agree with this concept. Pain relief using opiods is also a good concept.
    Judy
    [This Message was Edited on 07/23/2003]
  13. TonyW

    TonyW New Member

    After being absolutely floored by a combination of events in my life, including being diagnosed with fibro and heart disease (which will need surgery very soon), and having a very hard time in my personal life, I hit absolute ground zero ROCK BOTTOM! I have been diagnosed now for about 6 months, but know I have had this since my early 20's (am now 36, male). Like you, I have a very high pain tolerance, and, despite having these diseases, routinely put in 8-9 hour days, nonstop, lifting freight totalling over 8 thousand pounds every day! Yep, I am an old fashioned work horse, and love it! But, it was too much and I went on an anti-depressant, pain killers, and a heart medication. Well, after a few months and various symptoms, I looked up Effexor (the anti depressant) and was shocked at how many side effects it had! It was downright scary, so I am now weening off of it, and just pray that my brain will snap back, as it's becomming increasingly known that people who quit Effexor are suffering from SEVERE WITHDRAWLS because their brain doesn't resume it's normal seratonin production, so they suffer SEVERE ANXIETY!!! This comes from many who have tried to quit the drug, using the tapering off method that those who produce Effexor suggest! I have also weened off of the heart meds, as they make my blood pressure (already low with my type of heart disease) even lower, and I had one pressure measured at 84/64. Imagine what it's like working with a BP that low! Yep, makes one very pale, lethargic, and every time I stood up I dang near fainted. Now, the pain killer they prescribed me is used by many now for pain, but is usually used for heroin withdrawls, methadone. I have been cutting down on the usage of that, and I just wanted to tell all the facts about narcotic painkillers. If you take even a small dosage of narcotics for 7-10 days straight, your body already starts to develop a physical addiction, and possible a mental addiction as well. Physical addictions are the worst, as your body literally changes with narcotics, and when you don't have them, your body responds, often violently. If you take higher dosages and have been on them for awhile, never ever quit cold turkey, or run out! You can die from it, because the reaction your body will have, particularly from the 4-6th days after running out. You need to be professionally managed during the withdrawl process. Now, I am simply going to take a bit less each week, and slowly taper to the point where I can quit on my own, as I am too going all natural. I am tired of the side effects of these drugs, as they are as bad as fibro is!

    I am tired of feeling this way, and am taking control of my life. I have lost 27 lbs, from 217 to 190, in a year, just by quitting beer, and now I eat healthy, work is my exercise as my heart rate stays above 120 for 8 hours! I am positive about my future, and just take the bad days with the good, and make sure to lend an ear and voice my own fears to some great new friends I made in a small support group that we created online (most have fibro, a couple other diseases) as it's important for all of us to have people who genuinely care be there for one another! Anyway, great post, and my sentiments exactly, GO NATURAL!!!
  14. Hippen

    Hippen New Member

    for showing some support and understanding about what I was trying to say. I have hopes that you will find a way that works for your body to deal with the pain. I do have hopes that a reliable cure for this disease is found soon so that we can all find relief in this precious thing we call life. Thank you for sharing your experiences...I have learned alot from your post. Just maybe you have gotten some ideas from my posts as well. Maybe you can find some relief from pain by detoxing as I did. Love Hippen
  15. tandy

    tandy New Member

    Your sharing the fact that detoxing and cleansing your system helped you eliminate pain~Sounds easy enough. Thru all my researching of these DD....the ole Detoxing and getting rid of toxins has come up quite alot.So there must be some truth to this!! I did'nt take offense at all in your saying that "theres a better way".....instead of, or even with drugs~ I stated that I use pain killers and would like stronger ones.Thats the truth....but i'm no dummy,they are only masking something your body is trying to tell you.But I think in our cases....Drs./and the whole medical feild are'nt even close to knowing how to unravel the mystery of FM or CF.So till then....some of us need meds. to get back some functioning from our otherwise debilitating at times pain~ I speak for myself and my pain is way up on the high end of the scale!!I can barely do anything!! If I were alone...who's to say I might just lay around because thats all I feel like doing!But I Can't!!!I have 3 children,2 of which are very young.So I NEED to medicate!!!!(hopefully for now...not always!!)
    I did get some OLE tonight!!! but read your post reply back to me and you said you started at 300,2x a day. I only bought 150mgs.They do have the 20%olepurian(sp?). Maybe its a start. I'm gonna give it a try~ I took one an hr ago.
    And my fingers are crossed that this might help me out to.
    Thanks!! will keep you updated :)
  16. Plantscaper

    Plantscaper New Member

    Thanks for sharing your experience...You know I am a big proponent of OLE (talked to you when you first came on board)..and am interested in what research you are referring to regarding the detoxification methods used...

    How often do you need to sweat and massage your lymph glands? My treatment bias is that I want to target the causation of the problem, like you...and not mask the symptoms..which I can do at this point as my pain levels have not reached monolithic proportions..

    Plantscaper

  17. Plantscaper

    Plantscaper New Member

    A lot of us need to start at lower dosages..so l50mg could be a very good way to go..Higher dosages can produce much bigger "herxing"..so it is better to start out slowwww....If you are interested, there is a lot of posting on OLE in the archives..if you want me to bump an article, let me know...

    Plantscaper
  18. MiahRoo

    MiahRoo New Member

    I was on effexor for about a year when I was 16-17. I started having anxiety problems at around age 13 but they have been sooooo much worse for the past few years. To the point at times I can not even leave the house. To the point I have anxiety attacks at home. (I'd always figured anxiety was a social thing hahaha little did I know.) I stopped taking Effexor cold turkey because I felt it wasn't giving me much relief from the anxiety and depression I was feeling. My anxiety has since gotten much worse and your post, Tony, has really interested me. If possible could you post an article of some sort with this information or the name of a Dr.? You get the idea. I really, really, really would like to do some major research on this one.


    Also about detox etc...I'm very interested in the raw food diet. It's not an intense detox therapy but there are a few weeks worth of detox when first starting out. It makes sooo much sense to me to eat completely naturally. To not kill our food by cooking it. Notice how so many things wilt and die when we cook them? Notice how healthy animals are who eat raw fruit/veggie diets? I'm not at all an expert in any way and am still learning the very basics but the stories I've read about people having so much success with relief of FMS symptoms has really perked my interest. The whole idea behind this diet, the perk for me, is that our bodies are the ONLY thing that can really heal illness but we must give it an environment/situation that allows it to do so. Same basic idea as yours Hippen but completely different therapy it seems. hrmmmm
  19. tandy

    tandy New Member

    Your too good to us all here!! Your the one who got me interested in the OLE.I have read alot of your posts reguarding OLE....but now that I have it on hand and have started,I may have some questions coming your way!! Thanks for taking the time to write me and offer your help!!Thats what this board is all about!!!people like you!
    :)
  20. Hippen

    Hippen New Member

    I am so glad that we can all support each other through this horrible diagnosis. I appreciate the honesty that we all have here. I am very thankful for OLE and detoxing. The sweating method of detox came about after my first experience with OLE actually. I would not sweat before I started taking the OLE. Seems like all the fluid in my body was stuck !!!! LOL When I started taking the OLE and massaging my lymph nodes and sore soft tissue...I began to sweat this very sticky sweat. Doctor explained that it was lymph fluid mixed in with the sweat...Yuck !!!! I started to feel better after I began to sweat and my lymph system began moving again. Since I felt so good sweating...I started to encourage the sweating by saunas and plastic sweatsuits. Doctor was not surprised that I felt better and cautioned me about the potassium levels being affected by such rapid loss of body fluid. I started taking potassium supplements and i still do. Please be very careful about your electrolyte levels...potassium , calcium, sodium these levels are easily checked with basic bloodwork by your doctor. Also, make sure you drink plenty of WATER !!!!!!!! I was so very close to becoming almost bedridden before I started to detox my body. We all need to do something to fight the cause of our pain and this is a good place to start. Tandy I wanted to thank you for your post...i appreciate your openess....you are a great person...I can tell. Love Hippen