Pain relief for FMS conflicts with GERD treatment

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by Gly, Apr 29, 2007.

  1. Gly

    Gly New Member

    I've been reading as much as I can in the archives, about GERD. But I can't figure out how to relief my FMS pain and treat my GERD at the same time.

    My stomach only seems to tolerate acetaminophen, which isn't nearly enough pain relief for my fibro symptoms. I've had to stop taking Oxycontin. I wake up frequently at night in pain and that is making my days miserable.

    I am taking Prevacid for the GERD. Nexium gives me severe headaches and nausea. I've tried several OTC drugs.

    At this point I still have mild GERD symptoms in spite of Prevacid and the occasional Gaviscon and cutting out coffee, tea, decaffeinated coffee and even Caf-Lib, which all caused throat problems.

    My main problem is moderately severe pain from FMS. I cannot sit in my recliner for longer than one hour, so I am in bed most of the day.

    For those wondering, yes, I do take magnesium every day and have done so for years.

    Is anyone using a patch or injections or suppositories? Do those affect your GERD? I will call my doctor in the morning. He works well with me but I need some ideas to put before him.

    I would appreciate any help you can give me.

  2. Daisys

    Daisys Member

    gly, The only thing that totally controls my GERD is to avoid gluten, and limit very starchy foods. I had it so bad, I now have Barrett's esophogus, and none of the treatments controlled it before. As long as I eat right, it is a non-issue.

    Wheat seems to be a problem for a lot of people, and if you've never tried to go without it for a couple of weeks, you owe it to yourself to see if this is a good fix for you.

    This low carb, gluten free way of eating seems to help a lot of people with FM. It sure made a difference with my health. It's not a cure, but gives me a better quality of life: less pain/stiffness, less overweight, no GERD, more energy.

    Maybe with diet controlling your GERD, you could have more options for pain control?
  3. Gly

    Gly New Member

    Thanks for responding, Daisy. I forgot to mention that I have been tested for anti-gliadin antibodies and the tests came back negative.

    I tried going without grains for a week but didn't notice any difference, so I'm inclined to believe that gluten isn't the problem.

    Is a week long enough, do you think, considering that I "passed" the test? It was hard to do because my diet is already limited by other food sensitivites.
  4. LouiseK

    LouiseK New Member

    I would imagine that patch or suppositories might help although I wouldn't want to be putting something "in there" all the time either -- next you'll have another problem.

    I looked into narcotic patches myself and do want you to know two things -- one, you cannot just slap on a patch if your body is not already acclimated to a fairly large dose of narcotic. There are big warnings from the drug makers. Also many people feel that those things let out too much narcotic at once and don't really spread it out over the time stated by the maker. Last, they seem not to stay on for beans and, of course, that is a big problem because you cannot just tell the doctor they all fell off and ask for more. You have to call the manufacturer and tell them to send you some sort of over-patch.

    That said, being in bed is not good for the GERD. Perhaps you can have those extra little legs they sell added to the top of your bed or put the head up with blocks. It needs to be a few inches higher than the bottom to help the GERD -- don't go craxy or you'll be slipping down the bed all night. Ha ha. But true.

    You should try to be upright (no recliner) for an hour after you take pills too.

    Why did you have to get off the narcotics? Did they hurt your stomach too?

    Sorry you are feeling so rotten. I can relate . . .
  5. charlenef

    charlenef New Member

    i cant even take anything with my stomach either i had heartburn 24/7 for 2 yrs so i went out on my own and found 3 things that help chewable dgl licorice root guacatonga and stomach enzymes google them if your interested charlene
  6. LouiseK

    LouiseK New Member

    I would imagine that patch or suppositories might help although I wouldn't want to be putting something "in there" all the time either -- next you'll have another problem.

    I looked into narcotic patches myself and do want you to know two things -- one, you cannot just slap on a patch if your body is not already acclimated to a fairly large dose of narcotic. There are big warnings from the drug makers. Also many people feel that those things let out too much narcotic at once and don't really spread it out over the time stated by the maker. Last, they seem not to stay on for beans and, of course, that is a big problem because you cannot just tell the doctor they all fell off and ask for more. You have to call the manufacturer and tell them to send you some sort of over-patch.

    That said, being in bed is not good for the GERD. Perhaps you can have those extra little legs they sell added to the top of your bed or put the head up with blocks. It needs to be a few inches higher than the bottom to help the GERD -- don't go craxy or you'll be slipping down the bed all night. Ha ha. But true.

    You should try to be upright (no recliner) for an hour after you take pills too.

    Why did you have to get off the narcotics? Did they hurt your stomach too?

    Sorry you are feeling so rotten. I can relate . . .
  7. Gly

    Gly New Member

    Thanks for responding, Louise. Your information about the patches was the type I am looking for. I am wondering, though, if they still affect the stomach even though they go through the skin. I have morphine suppositories. I got over how they are used but they still cause terrible constipation and nausea. Therefore, more drugs to counteract that, which may flare up the GERD even more. I don’t know. I hate to use them because I save them for when my back “goes out” so I don’t have to go and try to sit in the ER.

    I could write a whole post about my bed… lol. Yes, today I had my husband “up” it again so that I am fighting sliding off… seriously, it’s that high. I have had it raised for over a year now, but I generally keep it on one block rather than two because of the circulation in my legs.

    I have no choice about not staying upright. That is what I need the painkillers for. That is exactly my dilemma.

    The short version of the story is that I have a broken tailbone (1997) which doesn’t hurt much anymore but has affected my buttocks and thighs so that I can’t stand or sit for long periods of time. I can recline for up to an hour before the burning pain gets unbearable. But to do that I need Oxycontin. And the Oxycontin seems to be flaring up the GERD.

    I can walk and crawl around in the garden (thank you, Lord!), but I cannot stand still long, such as at the kitchen sink or talking to a neighbour outside. I am too tired and sore from the fibro to walk or garden much, though, and I get bad flares if I overdo it. I also have heart rhythm problems and have a pacemaker. (Do you feel sorry for me yet? lol… I know that’s more than you needed to know.)

    I’m sorry you can relate to feeling rotten. Obviously, you’ve looked into this in depth, too. I read the same thing about the patches. Fooey.
  8. Gly

    Gly New Member

    Thank you for responding, Charlene. I have read about the licorice and the stomach enzymes on a support group for GERD. I can’t drive and my hubby is completely turned off by health food stores, but I might be able to get my Mom to look for those when she gets back from her trip to Germany. I take acidophilus capsules. DH says those are the same as stomach enzymes. I also enjoy Dutch licorice which has the real extract in it. My blood pressure is on the low side so I can eat those every day.

    I'll have to Google for guacatonga. That's a new one for me. Did your GERD clear up?[This Message was Edited on 04/29/2007]
  9. LouiseK

    LouiseK New Member

    I have wondered myself if using the narcotic patch would curcumvent the stomach issues and I have never been able to find out exactly what causes the constipation, etc.. I believe that in previous threads regarding these patches it seemed that people using them had the same GI issues.

    I have an elaborate scheme for dealing with the constipation . . .the GERD stuff though I can only think of taking with food (duh) a lot of water, and staying upright for more than 30 minutes.

    Maybe a liquid version would pass through the stomach faster and while you could be upright?

    Pain is a whole universe I wish I'd never become acquainted with.

    Best wishes.
  10. charlenef

    charlenef New Member

    i buy mine on line you should really get chewable dgl they take all the stuff out that gives you side effects and coats your stomach the (rain tree) guacatonga reduces acid by 43% and i take twinlab stomach enzymes there are no side effect with these things i am in the same boat i am in bed 22 hrs a day i couldnt even drink water without getting heartburn and i have taken every drug out there i still take prevacid also hope this helps you charlene
  11. charlenef

    charlenef New Member




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    GUACATONGA CAPSULES
    BIOLOGICAL ACTIVITIES AND CLINICAL RESEARCH
    The research on guacatonga's anticancerous properties began in 1988 by Japanese researchers from the Tokyo College of Pharmacy and Pharmacognosy. They published one preliminary trial in 1988 on their discovery of these novel clerodane diterpenes and their anticancerous and antitumorous activities.

    The study indicated that an ethanol extract of the leaf showed strong antitumorous activity in laboratory mice with sarcomas. As soon as they made this discovery, they rushed to patent it, filing a Japanese patent for the casearin chemicals they'd discovered as new antitumorous agents.

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    They published a follow-up study in 1990, again reporting their results from injecting mice with sarcomas with an ethanol extract of guacatonga leaves (100 mg per gram of body weight) and confirming their previous findings. They then tested individual casearins against various human cancer cell lines and published two more studies in 1991 and 1992.
    These studies reported newly isolated casearin chemicals and their antitumorous and anticancerous actions against various cancer tumor cells. Oddly, the Japanese researchers have not published any further studies and, since they had already filed patents, other research groups have not been forthcoming in funding research dollars on these patented antitumorous plant chemicals.

    In 2002, however, a well-known research group in North Carolina discovered three new casearins in the leaves and stems of guacatonga that the Japanese had not (and, obviously, hadn't patented). They named the new chemicals casearvestrin A, B and C, and published their first study in February, 2002, stating: "All three compounds displayed promising bioactivity, both in cytotoxicity assays against a panel of tumor cell lines and in antifungal assays . . ."

    Their research tested the new plant chemicals against human lung, colon and ovarian tumor cells and indicated all three compounds had toxicity to cancer cells in very small amounts. This research was supported by a grant from the National Cancer Institute, National Institutes of Health (NCI) and performed by a non-profit biotech company, a large pharmaceutical company and a major university.

    The NCI has also performed research in-house on clerodane diterpenoids found in another Casearia plant species documenting the antitumor properties of its novel diterpenoids and another university research group has documented the anticancerous properties of this class of chemicals in a Casearia plant from the Madagascar rainforest as well. It will be interesting to see if this diversified group will actually develop these chemicals into new effective chemotherapeutic agents; their research is ongoing.

    All other research on the chemicals and activities of guacatonga has been performed by Brazilian research groups over the years. The first published toxicity study with rats indicated no toxicity with an ethanol extract of the leaves at 1840 mg per kg. This research group, at the University of Sao Paulo, studied the anti-ulcer properties of the plant (based on its long history of use as an effective herbal remedy for ulcers).
    They published two studies confirming these benefits. The first study, with rats (in 1990), showed that a crude leaf extract reduced the volume of gastric secretion by 42%, but had little effect on pH. The extract also prevented lab-induced acute gastric mucosal injury which was equivalent to the antiulcer drug cimetidine (Tagamet®). Ten years later they published a second rat study, documenting that a crude leaf extract protected the stomach lining without changing gastric pH and sped healing of acetic acid-induced chronic ulcers and H. pylori ulcers.

    Another Brazilian researcher documented that a bark-and-leaf infusion demonstrated pain relieving and mild anti-inflammatory properties in mice. A university researcher followed up on the anti-inflammatory research, publishing in her dissertation that an extract of the leaves was as effective against inflammation in mice as the NSAID drugs Prioxicam® and Meloxicam®. Leaf extracts have also been shown by two research groups to be active against common food poisoning bacteria strains, Bacillus cerus and B. subtilis, but inactive against such other common bacteria as Staphylococcus, Streptoccoccus, and E. coli.

    CURRENT PRACTICAL USES

    It will be interesting to see what happens with guacatonga's ongoing cancer research - especially with sarcomas. These types of tumors typically grow very quickly, are resistant to many of the approved cancer drugs, and represent a bleak prognosis for most cancer patients. In the meantime, guacatonga is considered a safe plant and a great natural herbal remedy for ulcers, inflammation, and pain, and will continue to be used as a snakebite remedy throughout the Amazon jungles by the indigenous peoples. Although not widely available in the U.S. market yet, hopefully as more people learn of its beneficial uses, the market demand for it will increase.

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    Main Preparation Method: infusion or capsules Main Actions (in order):
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    Main Uses:

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    Properties/Actions Documented by Research:

    Analgesic (pain-reliever), antacid, anti-inflammatory, antibacterial, anticancerous, antifungal, antitumorous, antiulcerous, antivenin, gastroprotective (protects the gastric tract) Other Properties/Actions Documented by Traditional Use:

    Anesthetic, antihemorrhagic (reduces bleeding), antimutagenic (cellular protector), antiseptic, antiviral, astringent, blood cleanser, detoxifier, digestive stimulant, wound healer

    Cautions: None

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    [This Message was Edited on 04/30/2007]
  12. tngirl

    tngirl New Member

    I've found that carbonated drinks, and chocolate and of course spicy foods make it worse. Anything with tomato sauce really aggravates it because of the acid in the tomatoes.

    Have you tried making sure you don't eat anything for 2-3 hours before bedtime?

    Also smaller, more frequent meals help.

    There is an outpatient procedure they do for GERD that uses radio frequency waves to build scar tissue and tighten that spincter muscle at the top of your stomach.
    Sorry but I can't think of the name of the procedure even though I've had it. Sorry, maybe it will come to me later.

    The procedure helped but didn't solve my problem, but I know a lot of people are able to go eat pizza after the surgery or anything else they want with no reflux.

    On now I remember...I think the procedure was called Stretta.

    I do use lidoderm patches. That just deadens the skin with lidocaine. That doesn't block my pain but does help on some areas of my body.




    [This Message was Edited on 04/30/2007]
  13. puffy1

    puffy1 New Member

    I have barrets esophogus and I nee d to take prilocet everyday 2 times a day if I don't I am in agonizing pain all night and sometimes half the day.

    I am on no pain meds at all right now have not been on any for a couple of months( and if you think thats not hard boy it is).

    and I still have to have the prilocect I cannot go one day without it.

    daisys
    I don't know how I would be able to go without the meds long enough to do something like that I get violenly ill if I do not have the pills.

    How did you do it?

    Puffy

    [This Message was Edited on 04/30/2007]
  14. Gly

    Gly New Member

    Narcotics pull the water out of your bowel, so I use a stool softener - ducosate sodium. This is not addictive and does not trigger BMs as a laxative does. Even if you use patches or suppositories, constipation is likely because the drug still pulls water from the bowel. Some people, however, get diarrhea instead, so go figure.

  15. dani78xo

    dani78xo New Member

    Maybe trying some prescription GERD treatments?

    When I first got acid reflux, almost 7 years ago, I started on prevacid, then had to move up to nexium as it got worse. Eventually OTC drugs didn't help enough, so I was put on protonix.

    I still have trouble with acid reflux some days, though I do cheat occasionally :], but it's a lot more under control with the protonix.

    Unfortunately, the times that it's NOT under control, there's not much I can do for it, since I'm maxed out on the protonix.

    One thing I've noticed that DOES HELP is acidopholus (sp?). I started taking that when I had to go on antibiotics, 'cause the antibiotics TORE up my stomach due to GERD, and it decreased the GERD flare by A LOT.

    I stuck with the acidopholus, and it helps a lot with everyday use.



    As far as pain meds, I'm not sure what to recommend. I'm at the point where I can't even handle taking advil for more than a day, because my stomach goes insane. Celebrex is A LOT easier on the stomach in terms of GERD, but if others like it aren't helping, I doubt it would do any better.

    Antidepressants are another option--a lot of them greatly reduce pain, and I haven't encountered one yet that set off my GERD.


    BTW, when I went to a specialist for my GERD several years ago, they tried testing me for bacteria in my stomach (I can't remember what exactly they did) if you get tested for it, and you HAVE the bacteria (the one they tested for was one that's known to cause GERD), they can do something about it. I didn't have it, though, so no such luck. But it's still something to check out, if your GERD is particularly unbearable.

    I'm not sure how common it is that people HAVE that bacteria, but I know it is common to test for it.


    Hope you figure something out for the pain, though.
  16. Gly

    Gly New Member

    Thank you for sending the information about guacatonga. I found your journal at Daily Strength when I googled "guacatonga gerd". I'm so sorry you are suffering so much. You are far worse off than I have ever been, you poor dear.

    I am cautious about trying any treatments that promise a lot of results with no side effects. But, if I start to read more about its use for GERD, I will definitely reconsider.

    Hugs to you!




    [This Message was Edited on 10/18/2007]
  17. Gly

    Gly New Member

    Thanks for responding, tngirl. Too bad the Stretta procedure wasn't a cure for you )-: but I'm glad you experienced some improvement. Thanks for letting me know about it.

    I have post-prandial hypoglycemia, so I do have to eat several small meals each day. And I make myself stay upright as much as possible. It's pretty hard to stay up for 2-3 hours after eating when you have to eat 5 times a day. I have several food sensitivities and have figured out which foods aggravate my GERD, too. I am not bothered by spices at all. But peanut butter, oh my beloved peanut butter... *sigh*

    I don't think lidocaine would help me much. I was thinking more along the lines of Fentanyl.

    I'm feeling much better today after a good night's sleep (8 hours without waking!) so it's a lot easier to stay upright.
  18. Gly

    Gly New Member

    Hi Dani,

    I am currently taking Nexium until the headaches and nausea start. Then I'll switch back to Prevacid. OTC pills did not help me at all, either. So is Protonix stronger than Nexium, I wonder?

    I take acidophilus, too. I had to give up Celebrex because of the GERD. I have tried a few anti-depressants that didn't agree with me. I'm doing well with Trazodone, though. I've been tested for Helicobacter Pylori and didn't have it. My GERD was triggered by a drug called Actonel, which I was taking for osteopenia.

    I hope you find something you can take for pain, too. It sounds like we're in the same boat :-(
  19. Daisys

    Daisys Member

    I think I know what you're asking...I went without gluten for awhile before I stopped taking any meds. And the meds never really worked well, so I could tell I was getting better.
  20. Gly

    Gly New Member

    Thanks for responding. I'm sorry to read that you have Barrett's Esophagus. I am hoping my GERD doesn't progress to that level.

    Yes, I do know how hard it is to go without pain meds, unfortunately :-(

    Daisy cut out gluten from her diet. You can try that without going off your medication.