Pathogenic Mycoplasma Article: Why So Quick to Believe it?

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by pearls, Feb 8, 2003.

  1. pearls

    pearls New Member

    Re: Donald W. Scott's article, posted on 02/06/03 at 11:18 PM under the title, "Article on Pathogenic Mycoplasma for those who haven't seen it..:"

    I'm afraid everyone's going to be mad at me, and I hope that won't be the case. But I must ask a few questions about Donald Scott's article:

    Why were some of you - the ones who responded - so quick to believe it? Do you know this Donald W. Scott? Do you know his Common Cause Medical Research Foundations? Do you know this Institute for Molecular Medicine? What are its credentials? You know, anyone can set himself up as a "researcher" with an "institute."

    I want to tell a true story: I know someone in another field quite well who was given a fancy title, conveyed by an "institution" also with a fancy name. The person with the fancy title thought he was allied with something distinguished. He proudly showed off brochures that included pictures of himself under the "institution's" masthead. But I can tell you that he was an innocent who didn't know any better. Luckily the association didn't last very long, saving the nice man more embarrassment than he had any idea he'd end up with had it gone on for very long.

    Back to Mr. Scott's article: Now, I know there have been incidents in the past with U.S. government research that got out of hand - some quite reprehensible, but until I see the proof - which certainly must involve more than a story and accusations that don't seem on the surface to be substantiated - I cannot blindly accept these accusations against my country.

    Let me see here: If Mr. Scott is to be believed, military researchers are responsible for chronic fatigue syndrome, fibromyalgia, multiple sclrosis, AIDS, Gulf War Syndrome,Crohn's colitis, Lyme disease, "etc.," He appears, also, to be claiming that these researchers are responsible for cancer, Type I diabetes, Parkinson's disease, Wegener's disease, and collagen-vascular diseases such as rheumatoid arthritis and Alzheimers!"

    That reminds me of what my pain doctor had to say about chiropractors: "They are good at taking care of backs. Some of them claim to be able to cure all kinds of diseases, including cancer. Ask your chiropractor if he can cure cancer. If he says, 'Yes,' find another chiropractor."

    (By the way, I do have a chiropractor - a good one. He sent me to an M.D. when he feared I had a clot in my leg. He doesn't cure cancer or blood clots.)

    A lot of what Mr. Scott says sounds plausible. The tests he mentions: 1)polymerase chain reaction test, 2) Holter ECG, and the 3) blood volume test may very well show what he asserts in FMS and CFS patients. But, when I don't see the evidence, though he says he has it - and when he says the government is responsible for every disease known to man (okay, I exaggerate - I got carried away!) - then I have to step back and take another look. I did. He does not convince me.

  2. bubblegum

    bubblegum New Member

    And I can't imagine anyone getting mad at you for stating your opinion. May I suggest that you look at Jellybelly's thread that contains the patent by the US Military for the mycoplasma fermentas (sp?) Pearl there is plenty of proof out there that myself and many others have found to substantiate Mr. Scott's article. By the way if you noticed he is from Canada, not the US. He doesn't have to fear retaliation from our government. Garth Nicholsen is a prime example of what can happen to any professional who tries to expose the truth about our government and military. If you type in Garth Nicholson in your search engine you will be directed to a number of reliable sources to validate these claims. In my opinion, its consequential fear of the military and government that keeps the medical institutions from researching what could very well be the main cause of these diseases. Money talks and bull---t walks. The government proved that when Dr. Nicholson discovered the Gulf War Illness, they cut his funding, discredited him in hopes that no one would listen. I could go on for days. Everyone can find the truth if they really want to know it!!! I believe there is an antedote to what ever they have exposed us too. What i don't understand is why they give it to us. Could it be because it would mean that they must admit GUILT?

    Good luck Pearl in your own research.
  3. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    You are quite right to be skeptical of what you read and to question the credentials of the authors. I was as skeptical as you when I first started reading about the government coverup of the role of mycoplasmas in many illnesses. There are a number of eminent docs now who agree with Dr. Nicolson's research. Dr. N was just the first to find the connection when researching the cause of his daughter's Gulf War Illness. The fact that the government attacked him and his wife is pretty good evidence that a coverup was underway. The company for which he had been working and which fired him has deep roots into the old Bush regime to the highest, and I do mean, highest levels. Still, I was skeptical.

    Then, the smoking gun--a copy of the patent on mycoplasmas held by Dr. Lo, a researcher connected to the Dept. of Defense. Why do I say this is a smoking gun? Well, for one thing, when someone works for a company or the government or on a grant, all patents belong to whomever holds the researcher's contract. Seems no one wanted to claim ownership of this bacteria. I believe that Dr. Lo agreed to patent it to cover up for whomever weaponized this bacteria for germ warfare.

    Even after all this, there is no proof positive that our own Dept. of Defense has caused our illnesses, but the preponderance of evidence is overwhelming if one digs deep enough. Look into the experiments which were conducted on prisoners in Texas without their informed consent (many could not read nor write, let alone understand what experiments were being conducted on them). Our government has experimented on civilian and military populations admittedly in the past. I believe the mycoplasma fiasco is just another example of their meddling in things with which they could not foresee the consequences.

    Love, Mikie
  4. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    I am very glad to see another logically minded thinker here. Please stick around! We need more like you.
    My biggest problem here is not with Mr. Nicholson's heartfelt beliefs, or with members who have positive PCR tests to prove they do have mycoplasma problems, but with assertions that diseases which appear in the same numbers in other countries are caused by OUR government. Is there a world-wide military experiment going on involving all governments, cooperating in ways that they never have before about anything else? The World Health Org. says FMS is pretty evenly distributed among all nations and ethnic groups. MS is much more common in some places than others, but by far the highest concentration of MS is in the Hebrides Islands, off the Scottish coast. Is Scotland in on this nefarious scheme? Norway has a National FMS Assn., which means they have plenty of cases of it there. Is the Norweigan government, which has usually been peaceful and neutral, experimenting with bio-weapons on it's own people? The only logical conclusion, from what I've seen so far (and yes I do read it all), is that IF this is going on, it is responsible for only a small number of FMS cases, and there are still other causes. Or maybe, some of the writers on CFS I recently read (Ostrom, Schweitzen, Berne) are correct when they say that mycoplasmas are an opportunistic infection that gets into a body already weakened by the true cause of CFS/FMS,which they say is HHV6. I don't think anyone can be so certain at this point.
    BTW, your comments about Chiro's were right on target. A good one has kept my hubby's back working for yrs. A bad one messed up my MIL's knee by saying he could cure inflammation which had it swollen up like a ballon. It took me 2 months to get her to a Rheumy for a cortisone shot, and now she has a permanent "weather knee".
  5. PatPalmer

    PatPalmer New Member

    I have been following this thread with avid interest and it all seems to fall into place.

    Another train of thought I have always had, is that we are told to eat a healthy diet, veggies, fruit etc.. which I have followed.

    Eating my apple today I wondered if it had been sprayed with insecticide, if so, did washing it get it off ?
    I don`t think so.
    Any chemical must enter into the product itself surely.

    So are we being poisened on a daily basis by the very food we eat anyway ?

  6. pearls

    pearls New Member

    I already know what can happen to people who blow the whistle on corruption. I've always believed that while we need our military and police, we also need to monitor them because the nature of power is to corrupt. This is true with governments and any bureaucracy. So, you don't have to convince me that bad things have gone on in government, or that people in power have retaliated or that whistle blowers have been devastated by corrupt people in power.

    However, anyone presenting charges is obligated to show the proof. The burden of proof is on the accuser. Why would anyone want to look for proof if the person making accusations does not provide it?

    Nevertheless, I decided to look for Scott's article on the Internet. It may interest you that Mr. Scott has produced an updated version of his article. Also, there are 15 references in the article you reproduced, but no endnotes. The endnotes are essential if you want to present arguments for a certain point of view and should have been included with the article. Accusations are worthless unless there is documentation to back them up.

    (By the way, there are examples of Scott's article on the Internet that DO have these endnotes. I don't know if they prove Mr. Scott's assertions, though. I'd have to see each item. But, at least with the endnotes, a researcher could look them up someplace.)

  7. bubblegum

    bubblegum New Member

    The first time I posted this article was maybe August, 02. At that time the end notes were included. I took it for granted that everything was in tact when I copied and pasted from my documents. I didn't take the time to check and for that I apologize.
  8. nancyneptune

    nancyneptune New Member

    I'm not sure that mycoplasma's are the cause of FM either. BUT, when the US government gives a patent, it is available for all to see. Why in the world would someone patent mycoplasma fermentins if the gov't hadn't been in on it. It was the department of the Army that was doing the research. Their hands are dirty. It's very fishy to say the least.
  9. dojomo

    dojomo New Member

    In my opinion mycoplasma infections are opportunistic. G Nicholson studies find "different types" of mycoplasmas in 50-60 % of CFS sufferers. Hardly diagnostic and very dangerous for those that want to take antibiotics without proof of infection.

    I DO believe AIDS is from contaminated monkey viruses... whether it was intentional or not, will one day be revealed.......but like Klutzo says..CFS/FM is a global problem.

    I think the answer is environmental pollution.. pharmacuetical and industrial greed.

    All of these can cause a global health disaster....and likely has.

    Undeveloped nations can live the effects of pollution emmitted from the other side of the world.

    I always say......I don't FEEL infected.....I feel poisoned!! In fact..we show very little signs and symptoms of infections..( high fevers, elevated white counts, reddness , swelling, discharge, and identification of a pathogen)

    Toxins are more likely to cause multisystemic dysfunctions that we experience....and women and children are at a greater risk and are sicker than ever before.......

    I DO believe the governments lack of monitoring and controlling emmissons and drug saftey...(because of special interests) has contributed.

    We are the generation that is feeling the actual effects of pollution, and our children are suffering more neurological diseases than ever before.... To me..this is obvious........DJ

  10. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    These infections probably make people feel as though they have the flu or give them pneumonia in the initial active state. The reason we don't have high fevers later on is because the mycoplasmas become stealth chronic infections. In fact, many do have constant low-grade temperatures, along with the swollen lymph nodes and sore throats. Infections in the chronic state do not usually produce high fevers.

    Unless one is allergic to an antibiotic, it is not dangerous to take one. There are risks associated with everything, but to state it is dangerous is an exageration. If there is no infection present, the antibiotics will do nothing and can be discontinued. If, on the other hand, one's symptoms improve dramatically, it is a good bet that there is a chronic infection. To let a chronic infection go unhampered in the body over a long period of time is dangerous.

    No one knows for sure whether these are triggers in genetically predisposed people or infections of opportunity of both. Research will probably eventually answer these questions.

    Each of us has to decide for ourselves whether we want to pursue antibiotic treatment. For me, the path was clear. It is impossible to heal when there is a chronic infection in the body unless it is addressed.

    Love, Mikie
  11. pearls

    pearls New Member

    Mickie: I believe there IS danger in taking too many antibiotics. A person can find that their "little critters" don't respond to the antibiotics they carelessly used in the past. But even more ominously to the public at large is that whole classes of antibiotics are in danger of becoming useless as bacteria become resistant to them through our overuse. But, would I still take antibiotics if they were going to cure me? Of course, and rightly so.

    We have farm animals being given antibiotics to increase yield - or something of that nature. I think we should put a stop to that first. Secondly, if a doctor knows antibiotics won't help in a given situation, such as for a cold, for example, which won't respond because it is caused by a virus, I would say THAT is unethical. But, I would certainly not stop any doctor from prescribing antibiotics when not doing so would prolong illness or put the patient in danger.