Perque B12 - Help for anxiety / agitated exhaustion ?

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by Waynesrhythm, Dec 6, 2007.

  1. Waynesrhythm

    Waynesrhythm Member

    Hi All,

    I’ve become a big fan of Perque B-12 since starting on it this past summer as part of the simplified methylation protocol. Using it in conjunction with the Intrinsi B-12 seemed to jump start my methylation cycle at a rate that did not overwhelm my body. This seemed to help my energy levels and overall detoxification capabilities.

    I’ve recently discovered that the Perque B-12 can also be especially helpful at times of undue stress, anxiety or agitation. A few weeks ago, I had a really long, tiring and stressful day. I tried all my tricks to get my systems settled down, but nothing was working very well. I finally took a Perque B-12 lozenge under my tongue and started feeling things settling down in just a couple of minutes. And then went to sleep in another few minutes.

    The past few days have been especially rough for me, and was again trying many of the various tricks I’ve learned to regain a semblence of balance in my daily life. This morning, I did something different, and started out my day with a Perque B-12 lozenge. Again, I was amazed how quickly my “disjointed agitation” settled down, and have since had one of the best days I’ve had in a while.

    Thought I’d pass this along. You never know what might work.

    Regards, Wayne
    [This Message was Edited on 12/06/2007]
  2. spacee

    spacee Member

    You are so right. You never know what might work.

  3. Forebearance

    Forebearance Member

    Thanks for sharing your experience, Wayne!

  4. Jasmine

    Jasmine New Member

    Thanks Wayne for telling us about the perque B-12. I'll be starting the 3 products of Simplified Methylation in a few weeks and I'm very excited about them.

  5. Waynesrhythm

    Waynesrhythm Member


    A couple of notes on B-12 today. I talked with my sister yesterday and asked whether she was using the Perque B-12 I had left with her.

    She mentioned that she tends to get hot flashes when she took it, as she did with other forms of B-12 in the past. She says she's reluctant to take it because once her hot flashes get going, it's often hard to get them settled down again.

    A woman on this board, username renehicks, just posted an interesting post on her experience with B-12 as it relates to her sensory overload symptoms. The thread where she posted can be accessed by clicking <a href="">here</a>. I've also pasted it below for convenience.

    I've found the more consistent I am with taking my Perque B-12, the better I do.

    Hope you'all are doing well today. :)

    Regards, Wayne
    by Renehicks

    sensory overload in social situations 01/31/08 03:21 AM

    I have had ME now for more than 20 years and sensory overload has always been a major problem. I always felt plugged in to the electricity with my head buzzing with tinitus. Quite by accident I tried sublingual 12 methycobolimine and within 20 minutes of the first dose the tinitus went and I had a calming feeling all through my body for the first time in those 20 years.

    There was a small research study that was ignored that showed pw ME/FMS had high homosisteine and low B12 in their spinal fluid. As the methyl type of B12 is the only one present in the brain and it is now known that the methyl pathway is blocked in many with ME maybe many of us cannot convert dietery B12 to the methyl form... It worked for me but I still have to pace very carefully regarding social stimulus.
    [This Message was Edited on 07/01/2008]
  6. Missizzy

    Missizzy New Member

    Good Morning Wayne--Little bit of snow, huh? Boy did we get a lot!! Hope you've stayed warm and cozy. Anyway, can you please expound a bit on Perque B12. I have not heard of it.

    I tried weekly B12 shots for the two years following the onset of my illness because my tests showed mine to be borderline but it did not help at all. I should mention that when I was 25, I had a hemi-colectomy (fully half of my lower intestine was removed) following a bad car accident. I regained my health very quickly and have had none of the gastro problems they were concerned about. That was 28 years ago.

    I've always told every doctor about this but they just do not think that poor absorption is a problem that could have caused my ME. I still worry that it could be a factor. When I kept making noise about my concerns, the neuro ordered a methylmalonic acid and total homocystiene level test. I was told that they came back borderline. Thus, I tried the B12 shots and really felt no better at all.

    So tell me what you know about Perque B12. Is it something I can get at the Co-op? I'd give my (I'm thinking here)--I know--my 17 year old "challenging" son--to have a bit of energy. He's a good snow shoveler, I can say that about him.

    You take care and stay warm.

    [This Message was Edited on 01/31/2008]
  7. cct

    cct Member

    Hello Wayne!

    Yes, I have also noticed a decrease in my level of anxiety since I started the Perque B12, Intrinsi B12/Folate, and FolaPro.

    I did not know which of the three formulas was responsible for the decrease in anxiety, so I just continued to use all three of them together.

    With the knowledge of your experiences, I now understand that the Perque B12 is probably responsible for the improved health regarding the high level of anxiety that I experienced before the addition of Perque B12 to my supplements.

    All the best,
  8. grace54

    grace54 New Member

    I enjoy seeing some natural supplements that can giive us some relief.:)
  9. Waynesrhythm

    Waynesrhythm Member

    Hi Missizzy,

    I believe this is the most snow we've gotten at one time since I moved to Ashland over 10 years ago. Still kind of nothing compared to growing up in Wisconsin however.

    Regarding Perque B-12 -- Perque B-12 is a somewhat specialized form of Vitamin B-12, and I think the form is technically called Hydrocobalamin B-12. It is part of the methylation cycle block (MCB) protocol that is discssed here on this board.

    I have taken methylcobalamin B-12 shots in the past for several years, and got some benefit from them. Something eventually told me to quit taking this particular form.

    Since taking the Perque B-12 however, I feel it acts differently in my body, and feels better to me. I also like the fact that I don't have to do the shots any more!

    Regarding tests done for B-12 levels, I think I've heard they are not particularly reliable. Just because B-12 is detected in the blood does not mean that it is in a form that is bioavailable to the body.

    I believe the bioavailability of Perque B-12 (the hydrocobalamin form) is apparently why it can be more effective, especially when trying to affect the body's methylation cycle.

    Regarding your hemi-colectomy, it reminds me of a man I read about who developed a severe infection in his small intestine and had all but about four inches remaining. He thought he was destined to be on an extremely restricted diet for the rest of his life (because of what his doctors were telling him).

    He eventually did some research and discovered L-Glutamine was supposed to be especially good for small intestine function. After starting to supplement with it, he discovered that he could eat just about anything and did not feel his nutrient absorption was adversely affected.

    I believe I looked around Ashland when I was interested in trying the Perque B-12, but was unable to find it. I then went online and found a place with a good price with an additional 20% off if my total order came to $200. So I have a couple extra bottles at this time.

    I feel I've been getting to know you by reading some of your posts, and have thought about trying to find a good time to perhaps meet at the CO-OP. I feel I'm doing a bit better these past few days and could make it if you're up for it. I could also spare one of my bottles of Perque B-12 if you would be interested.

    I'm looking forward to meeting you at some point. I have another friend here in Ashland who has CFS/ME. I'm sure she would be interested in meeting with you sometime as well.

    Kind regards, Wayne
    [This Message was Edited on 01/31/2008]
  10. Waynesrhythm

    Waynesrhythm Member

    Hi All,

    Richvank recently posted an excellent explanation of the various types of B-12, including Perque B-12, and how they fit in with the MCB protocol. Since it seemed appropriate to this thread, I thought I'd take the liberty to copy and paste it here.
    Regards, Wayne

    by Richvank

    There are four types of B12 that are available: cyanocobalamin, hydroxocobalamin, methylcobalamin, and adenosylcobalamin.

    Cyanocobalamin is the one most commonly sold in vitamin pills, because it has the longest half-life. It works well for most people, because their bodies are able to remove the cyanide from it and convert it into the two forms the body actually uses in its biochemistry, which are methylcobalamin and adenosylcobalamin. In the small doses usually given, cyanocobalamin does not usually present problems because of the cyanide. However, a small fraction of the population is genetically not able to get rid of cyanide well, because of deficiency of the enzyme rhodanese. These people can develop a condition known as Leber's hereditary optic neuropathy. If significant amounts of hydroxocobalamin are also taken, this can bind the cyanide and protect against this condition. Hydroxocobalamin is the standard antidote against acute cyanide poisoning for this reason.

    Hydroxocobalamin can usually be converted in the body to methylcobalamin and adenosylcobalamin as needed. These reaction pathways start with formation of glutathionylcobalamin by reaction with glutathione. This is the form that is the major one used in the simplified treatment approach, in the Perque supplement.

    Methylcobalamin is the form that acts as the coenzyme for the enzyme methionine synthase in the methylation cycle, and this form is often depleted in CFS, producing a partial block in the methylation cycle. Some people supplement this form, and I think that's O.K., unless there is a big inventory of inorganic mercury in the body, such as from amalgam fillings. In that case, too much methylcobalamin may result in formation of methylmercury and movement of mercury into the brain, where it is a neurotoxin. For this reason, I do not advocate the use of this form as a supplement in cases in which high inorganic mercury is suspected.

    Adenosylcobalamin (sold as dibencozide) is the form used to convert methymalonate into a form that can be fed into the Krebs cycle, allowing certain metabolites to be burned for energy production. Taking this one can give a short-term energy boost to a person who has been low in it for a long time and has built up a lot of methylmalonate in their cells.

    The best test for low functional use of B12 is the urine methymalonate test. This is part of several of the urine organic acids tests that are offered, such as the one from Genova Diagnostics (Metabolic Analysis Panel) or the one from Metametrix (Organix). I think it's also on the Great Plains Lab urine organic acids test.

    Conventional doctors usually measure blood serum B12. This test is not as useful in CFS, because it usually comes out normal or high, suggesting that the B12 status is O.K. However, the problem is that the B12 is not being converted into the active forms for use in the biochemistry. So measuring urine methylmalonate is a better indicator of what's going on. Of course, having both is great, because that enables one to determine better where the problem is. For example, if the person has pernicious anemia (inability to absorb B12 in the gut), then the serum B12 will be low, too.

    In the simplified treatment approach, the main form of B12 used is hydroxocobalamin, in the Perque supplement. There is also a little cyanocobalamin in the Intrinsi/B12 Folate supplement produced by Metagenics. This combination supplement supplies a mix of folate forms, including folinic acid, and also includes some intrinsic factor to correct pernicious anemia. These supplements have been selected to be sort of a "mass production" or "lowest common denominator" treatment that will help several subsets of CFS patients. Particular people may not need all of them, but the combination should be effective for several subsets without doing a lot of testing.

    I hope this helps.

    [This Message was Edited on 07/01/2008]
  11. Gnomie

    Gnomie New Member

    Thanks Wayne for posting this. I have a lot of anxiety and whilst the vit B shots did calm me down, my doctor only gave me a short course of them. Will definitely give the Perque b12 a try.
  12. Waynesrhythm

    Waynesrhythm Member

    Hi Gnomie,

    Thanks for your reply. BTW, love your username!

    I hope the Perque B-12 trial will work well for you. You may want to check out the thread entitled <a href=">Harvard Study on Cranial Electrotherapy Stimulation for FMS</a> which discusses CES for anxiety and other common FMS symptoms.

    Best, Wayne
  13. Gnomie

    Gnomie New Member

    Thanks for the info, will check it out!

    My username - is just what people call me when they don't pronounce my actual name correctly! (Naomi)!! It's kind of stuck, but I like it anyway.