Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by SCAP, Feb 17, 2009.

  1. SCAP

    SCAP New Member

  2. FMsaddenedspirit

    FMsaddenedspirit New Member

    Hello .. sorry you are going through this... very hard to deal with I know.
    I hope you get the help you need. . my Pryaers are with you ..

    Yes I have heard of this ... My daughter was D with PTSD and now has all the symtoms of Fibro.. it can be a triger for Fibro..

    PTSD it's self can affect a lot .... she has has a lot of Success with Cognative Theropy ( if my spelling is right )

    she deals with CFS . Cronic pain for years now... from age 12 and we think Fibro now. .. but she does not have Med insurance right now so has not had this confirmed with Doc yet..

    she is only 18 now.

    Sorry i don't really have good info on this ... but wanted to share and give my best wishes for you ..

  3. gapsych

    gapsych New Member

    I was thinking about this the other day during a bad bout of pain.

    Can the pain exhaustion of FM/CFS/ME cause PTSD?

    I see my psychiatrist in a couple of weeks and will have to ask.

    I sometimes wonder if I have a mild form. I do not have flashbacks or anything like that but do find that when I am in excessive pain, my mind goes numb, almost like I am not really experiencing the pain and I know this happens to victims of abuse.

    But this also could just be a coping mechanism or disassociation. I don't know if this is healthy or not but it has gotten me through some serious bouts of pain.

    Isn't pain abuse on the body? I am going to look up PTSD and get some more information as it has been a long time since I have read about it.

    I am so sorry you are going through this.

    Healing thoughts.

    A similar disorder in terms of symptom repertoire is acute stress disorder. The major differences between the two disorders are that acute stress disorder symptoms persist from two days to four weeks, and a fewer number of traumatic symptoms are required to make the diagnosis as compared to PTSD.

    I would think that my symptoms would fall under the above but I am not a diagnostician. I still wonder if it can evolve into PTSD.
    [This Message was Edited on 02/18/2009]
  4. gapsych

    gapsych New Member

    So sorry that your daughter has gone through so much at such a young age. That has to be hard.

    Take care.
  5. kellygirl

    kellygirl Member

    Yes, that is what I was treated for when I became sick with CFS with mono.

    I was just so exhausted from living.

    I joined the Adult Children of Alcoholic program and had individual counseling and group. I learned by being a child in an abusive home, it is like a veteran in a war zone.

    Years later when I went back to school p/t, I interned at a veteran's clinic and a VN vet came in and was trembling with a lot of anxiety. I thought OMG, that was me! My journey started in the mid '80's and sometimes I need to be reminded how far I have come.

    I am grateful that the programs were here when I needed them.

    I beileve that was a major part of my recovery.

    Right now, I am dealing with a flare-up of myofascia pain from surgery last year. But, before that I was doing well. I'll get through this, too!

    With this disorder it is One Day at a Time.
  6. FMsaddenedspirit

    FMsaddenedspirit New Member

    Good morning !
    Hope this finds you with a good day :)

    Thank you for your kind words .. yes it was very hard trying to find out what was going on. almost to much for me and my health . Its the worst feeling . not knowing how to help your child. she ened up in the hospital seveal times ,

    and I follwed by going on short term disibility with work about a year later. not because of my daughters issues .. but my own.

    we have found that she really needs to stary away from anything with MSG in it.... we both try ,,and not do any package meals because of all the bad stuff for us in them //

    She now takes a day at a time. and like all of us has learned to live with pain best we can .

    not sure if the MSG info is helpfule but I hope so .

    Be Blessed ,, FM

  7. and then some.... was 'dx'd' by disability's neuropsychologist last August, but, I've had it since my early teens, if not before then.

    My sister has a severe form of it too, with anxiety, panic, bipolar II disorder, borderline personality disorder, & we both also have 'abandonment' issues, stemming from 20+ years ago.


  8. gapsych

    gapsych New Member

    It is so hard when our children are in distress. My daughters are grown but you still worry. My older daughter has been going through a lot recently.

    I don't know how you do it with being ill. Taking one day at a time is some of the best advice given me.

    Interesting about the msg. I can not tolerate anything that is in a packet, for example seasonings for chili. My lips get tingly and numb and I start sneezing. I am really not allergic to anything else except occasionally dust will bother me. However if you looked at my house right now, you would never guess, lol!!

    I have no idea what is in the packets and will have to look next time I go shopping.

    Thanks goodness you can get Chinese, Japanese, Thai without the MSG. I treat myself about once a month.

    You take care. It sounds like you are top of things. Even with that, things can still be hard.

    [This Message was Edited on 02/19/2009]
  9. ladybugmandy

    ladybugmandy Member

    yup....i have CFS + PTSD + bipolar and had gone through periods of major depression a while before acquiring EBV and CFS.

    there is some information on the net about the effects of psychological stress on neuroimmune function. i am sure there is a connection.

    my plan is to deal with the infections and when i am well enough (IF i get well enough), take steps to decrease my psychological stress through therapy, yoga, etc etc.

    best of luck
  10. acer2000

    acer2000 New Member

    I have read a bit about this issue. I think that they think that PTSD can cause your immune system to wear down over time. Although some of the initial studies showed increased immune function in early PTSD, including increased NK cell function (or at least not decreased). I don't think all the research is in, and they don't know exactly how it works, but it involves some dysregulation of the HPA axis. People with PTSD don't typically sleep well, so that can cause your immune system to not work as well either. So its conceivable that if you have PTSD you might be more succeptible to coming down with an illness in general, including any of the bugs known to trigger "CFS".

    But in general what I was told by my doctor, in answer to this very question, is that the fatigue associated with PTSD isn't "measurable" like the fatigue associated with CFS is. Thus, exercise usually helps people with PTSD feel better like it does with people who have primary depression, but with CFS it obviously makes you worse, and in a predictable and measurable way (with exercise testing). In fact, one of the ways they differentiate between PTSD and depression and CFS in court cases for disability is using the University of Pacific exercise test which shows people with CFS typically have a low v.02 max and Anaerobic Threshold, and that if its tested 2 days in a row its actually lower on the second day (post exertional malaise). People who don't have CFS don't show this pattern, including people who are primarly depressed, anxious, etc..

    This doesn't mean that you couldn't get CFS while also having PTSD, or that PTSD might not predispose you to getting sick more often... And it also doesn't mean that if you have PTSD and then you got CFS, you shouldn't treat the PTSD. There are some good treatments for PTSD such as EMDR that are safe and well researched. Anyways, this is mainly my opinion based on what I read, I don't think the research on the immune effects of PTSD is all in. As always, ask your Drs.. if you want "Real Advice" (tm) :)
    [This Message was Edited on 02/19/2009]
  11. AuntTammie

    AuntTammie New Member

    re: your question about ME and FM leading to PTSD.....while I understand what you mean, and there may be some mild similarities, chronic illnesses generally do not lead to a DX of PTSD (although receiving a DX of a life threatening illness can lead to PTSD, it is not that common and there are a lot of other criteria that have to be met....generally PTSD comes from rape, war, terrorism, etc. not illness, even though I totally agree that ME and FM are traumatic in their own way, and awful illnesses to have) It sounds like you have been mildly dissociating when in a lot of pain....while that is generally not considered a healthy way to cope with emotional distress, it could be a good thing for you and others in a lot of physical pain.....actually, most people do some form of dissociating on a regular's just that it is all on a continuum.....on one end of the spectrum are things like driving along while your mind is on other things and having no memory of parts of the drive....on the far far other end is developing multiple personalities....being able to sort of block out the pain is probably a healthy adaptation in your case

    I don't know how much sense I am feeling really tired and foggy rt now.....just want to reassure you that what you are doing is not something to worry about

    Also, PTSD can be a trigger for people to get FM and kind of bugs me, though, bc a lot of people want to use that as proof that FM and CFS are mental disorders, and that is not the case at all....PTSD can be a trigger, as can physical trauma, chronic stress, viruses, toxins, etc....PTSD involves a lot of the chemicals in the brain and the flight or fight system that are also involved in FM and CFS....but they are involved in many different things, too, like sleep, appetite, etc....our bodies and brains are very complex and the same chemicals are often used for several different things....and there are other physical illnesses that are made worse by stress....that doesn't make them mental illnesses (& I have nothing against people with mental illnesses, either....I just get mad when people don't get the care they need bc they are trying to say that these illnesses are all in our heads)

    also, having any kind of chronic illness is in itself depressing and stressful and anxiety provoking.....some of those things may also tie into what you were talking about re: PTSD symptoms

    again I apologize if this is not really clear....I have been having all sorts of crazy new symptoms the last few weeks (even wound up in the ER Sat) my brain is just not working rt at all....I do know about this stuff, though....I am on disability now but I am a counselor and have had to diagnose very familiar with the DSM, abuse, PTSD, etc (& with CFS/ME and FM) (and have had personal experience with this stuff, too)
  12. gapsych

    gapsych New Member

    You make perfect sense and thanks for the information.

    I think I kind of suspected that I did not have it as I know how devastating PTSD is but this disassociation kind of concerned me. But like you said a lot of us probably do this and I am planning on bringing this up to my psychiatrist. It only occurs when I am in horrific pain. Maybe my body kind of goes into shock, mentally.

    Thanks for explaining this and you brought up some very interesting points.

    This is a question I have wondered about for a long time but when I researched it did not get any clear picture.

    Before I went on disability, I worked with many adolescence who were diagnosed with ED. I did have several students with who were suspected to have PTSD but none with a formal diagnosis.

    Along with you, I strongly believe that when needed, it is vital to get the mental health care along with the physical care. As you said it does not mean that our illnesses are in our heads. I was on ADs for many years before I came down with this DD. They also help with the pain that I now have. For me, they have been a life saver.

    I also had short term therapy with someone who specializes treating people with illnesses and I still see my therapist for periodic "check ups" as I literally know how depression can sneak up on you.

    Wow, sorry for the rant. I hope I make sense!!

    So sorry to hear you ended up in the ER. Take care.

    Arsenio1o, also thanks. Somehow I missed your post. gap[This Message was Edited on 02/19/2009]

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