Prayer - can it change anything?

Discussion in 'Spirituality/Worship' started by Terry, Feb 28, 2002.

  1. Terry

    Terry New Member

    I am a bit at a loss. In some posts some of the people here think that we cannot change anything with prayer. I get the feeling that they believe that all is preordained and that prayer will not help. Because it is writen - it will happen.

    Other posts seem to say that prayer is everything and that we can achieve anything with God's help when we pray to him.

    Somehow - it doesn't compute or jive for me. I would certainly like to reconcile this dichotomy.

    Maybe I lack "light" to discerne the two and how they can make sense to me. Any assistance would be appreciated.
  2. Cactuslil

    Cactuslil New Member

    Short answer.

    Prayer for oneself requires introspection. We are here on earth to learn from that experience; in order to do that we have to learn to look within ourself for our needs. This requires wisdom and understanding. We confirm our needs by prayer when we ask of Heavenly Father for help always to qualify, if it be thy will. Obedience to Heavenly Father is still at the crux of our learning.

    It goes without saying that He knows our needs; it is a lesson for us to learn to recognize those righteous needs; learn to cope with adversity and refine ourselves to endure with grace (purchased by Christ through the atonement).

    Prayer for others is also commanded by Him for us to do. Again, the learning of faith and wisdom through obedience to and through Him.

    Terry, these are the short answers; there is much more we can learn about prayer in the scriptures. Love Lil'
  3. Harmony

    Harmony New Member

    In a sense both sides of the question have an element of truth. In order to get the whole truth about prayer, we have to see how both of these seemingly contradictory statements fit.
    First of all, God is sovereign in all that He does. The object of prayer is not to change the mind of God so that we force Him to do something he doesn't want to do. After all, the Bible does tell us that God does know our needs even before we ask Him. On the other hand, God does command us to pray and to pray in faith believing that we will receive the answer. The question that is hard to answer is why would God want us to pray if He already knows and has determined to accomplish His sovereign will. I believe the answer lies in the fact that prayer is designed by God not to change the mind of God but to change us. I also believe that God wants to bless us but He withholds that blessing because he is waiting for us to humbly come before Him in prayer and in dependence and submissin to His Lordship in our life. The greatest act of faith we can bring before God is to pray in faith and then trust Him for the answer and do His will even when it conflicts with our own. I have seen and heard of so many things happen because of prayer. Hope this helps.
    Harmony
    [This Message was Edited on 03/01/2002]
  4. RoseTx

    RoseTx New Member

    Let me tell you how to find answers: Go read James 1:5&6. go to a private place and ask until you receive an answer. It make take awhile... hours, days, months, years... but ask in faith, knowing that God answers prayers. My e is jimlocke@myexcel.com if you want to talk more about what I BELIEVE... Hugs, Rose
  5. mom

    mom New Member

    I know that nothing is preordained. Everything can be changed in some way. But I feel that we do the changing. If we work hard at something it will change. Sitting down and asking a god to make the changes for us to me is the wrong way to go about making a change. You have to work at it and do the sweating and not wait for the big guy to step in and do it for you.
    just my thoughts
    momlynda
    If praying does help someone feel better I am all for it and I will ask for prayers for someone else I feel believes in and needs them but I will not ask for something for myself as I haven't yet reconciled with myself that they would do any good.
  6. Terry

    Terry New Member

    I have been researching and looking at past postings. I am still in a fuzz. It is not that I am feeling at a loss about my beliefs but that I am at a loss about understanding the beliefs of others.
    What I am questioning is how someone who believes in preordination can pray for change in events of the world etc.
    I will get back to you after I have done more 'praying' on this and you all have helped me.
    Take care and my prayers are with you>
  7. RoseTx

    RoseTx New Member

    I BELIEVE (just my own belief) that there is a huge difference in PREDESTINATION and PREORDINATION. Predestination means It absolutely is set in concrete and can not be changed. I do not believe anything is predestined. BUT Preordination means that a person was chosen by God to do a certain thing when that person became a mortal man. For instance there are several instances in the Bible where God talks about knowing one of the Prophets before he(the prophet)was in his mother's womb. I believe that some people were chosen before this world was organized and before that person was born. But just because he was preordained, it doesn't mean that the person cannot change that. He is called to be a prophet or chosen to do some special thing... but once he is mortal he will have the opportunity to accept the call or refuse it. Webster's dictionary doesn't seem to make a distinction between these words. But for me there is a wide difference.
    Why pray? Well, I am like Adam when he was asked why he offered sacrifices. He said, "I know not, except the Lord commandeth." I pray because I am commanded to pray. And I pray carefully and end every prayer with ,"Thy will be done." I pray carefully because I believe that God answers the prayers of the righteous and I consider myself to be one of the believers. I hope this might help some. Hugs, Rose
  8. Cactuslil

    Cactuslil New Member

    Not a real good "spell" day. It does indeed state in the scriptures that there were men foreordained from the BEGINNING of time to be borne in a certain time-line. Even men who, by virtue of the greater glory, were to do what appeared by man to be evil.

    Judas is an example of that; Jesus had to prove himself to Heavenly Father by his sacrifice; his obedience to the greater good, by being humbled, humiliated, hung on the cross and be valiant in doing so; he had to descend into the unorganized spirits and organize them, then he had to come back here and show he had indeed overcome death and the grave. That is the moment in time where Jesus became the Christ.

    Judas was given the sop by Jesus at the last gathering, the last supper....followed by telling Judas to do what he MUST and do it quickly. In this Judas was obedient into Jesus..he did what was foreordained to happen from the days of Isaaia and all the prophets of old.

    Adam also had to fall for there to be cause of a redemption. Even in New Testament scripture there is the passage wherein it is stated Eve took of the apple and Adam, in order to have increase (children) must nessesarily follow Eve; in this event, he was obedient unto God to have increase.

    Catch-22's? It is not always clear at first glance; All had their free agency to choose; what appears as sin to one, seen through discerning eyes, becomes one of obedience. Adam fell that man may be; without his obedience to have children we would not be here. Had Judas not betrayed Jesus, there would be no salvation.

    Prayer? We are commanded to pray. Once again free agency rules. I have a choice to pray or not to pray; I try to follow the teachings of Jesus, therefore I draw upon the powers of heaven through (obedience) prayer.

    Love CactusLil'
  9. oscar

    oscar Guest

    Dear Mom

    your messages is the one that makes more sense to me than any of the others. We cannot pray, meditate or wish anything into being. We must challenge the parts of ourselves that we want to change and cultivate the parts that we want to keep. This requires the use of our will. Putting ourselves in the position of the other person challenges our anger or fears. So does the intention to discover the pain that lies beneath our anger or fear. Putting the needs of another above our own needs challenges our impatience. Looking for miracles in our life challenges our depression. Every time we cultivate a part of ourselves that we wish to keep, we challenge the parts of ourselves that oppose it.

    God gave us free will, it is up to us to choose the right road - as long as it is seen that we are doing everything to help ourselves the universe will respond.

    luv
    Lee