Proving my theory.........

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by dojomo, Feb 10, 2003.

  1. dojomo

    dojomo New Member

    There are thousands of studies that suggest our symptoms are the result of exposure to toxins......people around here act like they couldn't be toxic because they feel they haven't been exposed.......

    I have posted many articles showing that WE HAVE been exposed to unsafe levels of toxic pollutants....yes the average normal person with a genetic predisposition can be suffering from low level chronic exposure.

    Now I would like to show you studies that implicate heavy metals..esp mercury, as a cause of all our symptoms.
    I have edited out scientific jargon....but these and more studies can be found at the PubMed site.

    Human exposure to certain compounds or therapeutic drugs can result in the development of an autoimmune syndrome.

    Mercury (Hg) induced autoimmunity is one of the few animal models in which administration of a chemical induces a specific loss of tolerance to self-antigens. After receiving subtoxic doses of Hg or other heavy metals, susceptible mouse strains rapidly develop highly specific antibodies to nucleolar antigens.

    In addition, these animals display a general activation of the immune system, especially pronounced for the Th2 subset and a transient glomerulonephritis with immunoglobulin deposits. Like many human autoimmune diseases, this syndrome is associated with the expression of susceptible major histocompatibility complex (MHC) class II genes. In this article, we review the essential features of this model, and we discuss the putative mechanisms by which Hg creates such a severe immune dysfunction

    Occupational or environmental exposure to metals is believed to affect human health adversely. One mechanism whereby metals can alter health is through modulation of immune homeostasis. Imbalances in immune regulation by metals can lead to inadequate or excessive production of inflammatory cytokines.

    Alternatively, metals can lead to inappropriate activation of lymphoid subsets involved in acquired immunity to specific antigens.

    Mercury induces a systemic autoimmune condition characterized by auto-antibodies to the nucleolar protein fibrillarin (AFA) and systemic immune-complex (IC) deposits in genetically susceptible mouse strains.

    This study examines T cell activation and cytokine production following mercury exposure in genetically susceptible and resistant strains.

    Mercury injected s.c., according to the protocol for induction of autoimmunity, caused an early T cell activation.   We conclude that autoimmunogenic doses of HgCl2 induce an activation and proliferation of T cells in genetically susceptible mouse strains, as well as a broad increase of cytokine-producing cells, followed by a late predominance of the Th2-associated IL-4.


    OBJECTIVE--The aim was to study whether functional impairment of the pituitary, thyroid, testes, and adrenal glands of humans occupationally exposed to mercury (Hg) vapour can be shown as a result of accumulation of Hg in these glands.
    RESULTS--The serum free T4 concentration and the ratio free T4/free T3 were slightly, but significantly, higher in the subgroups with the highest exposure, and the serum free T3 was inversely associated with cumulative Hg exposure. This indicates a possible inhibitory effect of mercury on 5'-deiodinases, which are responsible for the conversion of T4 to the active hormone T3. Serum total testosterone, but not free testosterone, was positively correlated with cumulative Hg exposure.


    The effects of methylmercuric chloride on the coagulability of blood were studied in rats. The administration of a single dose (17.9 mg Hg/kg) and a repeated dose (5 X 8 mg Hg/kg/day) of this compound resulted in hypercoagulation. The reduction of the clotting time, the increase of fibrinogen level in plasma and changes characteristic of hypercoagulation in the thromboelastographic parameters were observed. Simultaneously, signs of impaired activity of blood platelets: decreased aggregation velocity and clot retraction as well as prolongation of the bleeding time were noticed.

    Haemostatic disorders in rats were recorded by means of thrombolastography, following one single intravenous application of 10 mg of mercury dichloride/kg. The disorders become manifest initially in the form of hypercoagulation and later as a hyperfibrinolytic condition

    Chronic mercury poisoning from a single brief exposure.

    For a number of years we have observed six patients whose illness began after inhaling high concentrations of mercury vapor in a single exposure. They all had symptoms of acute mercury poisoning with fever, chills, chest pain, and weakness.

    Three men had diffuse pulmonary infiltrates on chest x-ray suggesting chemical pneumonitis. Two of the men excreted large amounts of mercury in their urine two days after exposure following BAL therapy. Their chronic symptoms differed somewhat, but many complained of nervousness, irritability, lack of ambition, and loss of sexual desire.

    Chronic mercury poisoning is generally felt to follow only long periods of exposure. Although thess patients had symptoms which are not pathognomonic of chronic mercury poisoning, we feel the events described strongly suggest their relationship to a single brief exposure and represent a form of chronic mercurialism

    At the Institute of Occupational Medicine and Environmental Health, during 12 years, chronic mercury intoxication was diagnosed in 34 persons. There were male workers tending technological processes in which Hg was used as a catalyst (synthesis of acetic aldehyde and obtaining chlorine). The length of professional exposure was 13-34 years (mean 20.6). The patients were removed from the contact with Hg after Hg intoxication case was confirmed. During the following 11 years, 24 of them were reexamined in the clinical department 2-4 times.

    The clinical picture of the poisoning consisted mainly of neurasthenic, cerebellar (30 persons), psychoorganic symptoms (20 persons) and behavioural changes (irritability, aggressive states). Headaches, sleep and recent memory disturbances, progressive behavioral changes, dizziness, were the most frequent complaints. The authors stressed the irreversibility of central nervous disorders despite cessession of the exposure to Hg. The degree of cerebellar intensity changes did not handicap examined patients. This is especially important to show the difference between the above described clinical picture of Hg intoxication and multiple sclerosis.

    INTRODUCTION: Studies done in Columbia on neurotoxicity underline the hazards of mercury from the environmental and occupational-health point of view, but the effect of long-term exposure on cognitive function has not been studied. .
    RESULTS: In the study group alterations were seen and classified as:
    intellectual damage (mainly alteration of executive function and constructional praxis); emotional changes (symptoms of depression and anxiety) and neurological changes (amnesia, insomnia and tremor of the tongue). No changes were found in the control group. CONCLUSION: Exposure to mercury causes specific neuropsychological and behavior disorders in the absence of clinically detectable physical or physiological damage

    Chronic elemental mercury intoxication: neuropsychological follow-up case study.
    Hua MS, Huang CC, Yang YJ.
    Department of Psychology, National Taiwan University, Taipei, Taiwan.

    In initial and follow-up investigations of neuropsychological function in a patient with elemental mercury intoxication, his scores were compared with those of a group of normal control subjects matched for sex, age and education. Each subject received a comprehensive neuropsychological examination including a personality inventory. On the initial examination the results indicated that the patient had a significant depression of performance intellectual functioning, impairments of attention, non-verbal short-term memory and visual judgement of angles and directions, psychomotor retardation and personality changes including depression, anxiety, desire to be alone, lack of interest and sensitivity to physical problems. Such an impairment picture is compatible with the previous observations of individuals with chronic exposure to elemental, organic or inorganic mercury.

    Occupational mercury exposure and its consequences for behaviour. Williamson AM, Teo RK, Sanderson J.

    Mercury is a known neurotoxin. Evidence from animal studies show behavioural impairment which can be long-lasting, after low-level exposure to mercury.

    Human research, however, has not been conclusive. Chronic, high-level mercury exposure such as occurred in Japan, and the Middle East, Causes long-lasting and profound neurological damage. However the effects of low-level exposure, such as occurs in occupational exposure, are far from clear. This study used a comprehensive test battery based on an information processing framework to compare a group of twelve chronically mercury-exposed workers with a matched control group. The mercury-exposed group showed poorer psychomotor co-ordination and premature fatigue, although simple motor responses were not affected. General arousal levels also remained unaffected but mercury-exposed workers were superior in sustaining attention. In spite of this, the mercury-exposed group showed clear deficits in short-term memory

    I have also posted studies showing that women are more adversely affected from heavy metals.....which helps answer the first question as to why this illness effects more women......

    A lot of variables exist as well as genetic style (food and pharmacueticals) and occupational exposure (expains why medical workers have increased risk) and proximity to environmental exposure.....(ie landfills, power plants)

    I'm interested in why people ignore this theory......If you are totally against it..tell me why.. Maybe my eyes need to be opened to something I have over looked..............DJ
  2. VickyB

    VickyB New Member

    I would like to ask my doctor about being tested for metal toxicity but do not know how to approach him?? Could you tell me how and what to ask for?
    Thanks, Vicky
  3. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    Environmental toxins are one of the things which can trigger our illnesses and can increase morbidity. I believe that many people with toxic poisoning have been mistakenly labeled with other illnesses and diseases.

    Thanks for sharing this info with us.

    Love, Mikie
  4. dojomo

    dojomo New Member

    Hi Vicky......I would simply ask to be tested for heavy metal exposure, I don't know why he/she would refuse.....if you have to make-up a you've had a broken thermometer in your house, do that.

    The problem is..doctors aren't looking for heavy metal exposure as a cause of autoimmune diseases... TOO novel at this point..and most tests (urine or blood) only indicate recent exposure... only actual tissue analyses by biopsy or autopsy will show the bioaccumulation.....But if you have could show spilling of mercury constantly.

    Not only that....but we absorb mercury three different ways, inhaled, digested and absorbed...mercury knows NO barriers, it crosses placenta, breastmilk, blood brain barrier..on and on...and our organs and tissues absorb it...what is in our blood and urine doesn't indicate how much is in our samples could prove some prior exposures.

    Our bodies are unable to metabolize mercury (break it down) it flows unchanged through our bodies...the liver will dump it in to bile..but then, only what isn't re-absorbed by our GI tract will be eliminated. So you can imagine how many cycles it would take to eliminate what hasn't settled in our organs..

    Jelly....just like you..I'm searching for a CAUSE.... so far.. This is the closest I have come to a common denominator......I have a gut feeling that the answer is simple and right in front of our eyes..Plus I hope this is the cause....because it is absolutely PREVENTABLE !!!....DJ

  5. schnoodle

    schnoodle New Member

    Hi. I was exposed to toxic molds at the workplace for 4 years. Broke down my immune system and now I have fibro along with other problems.
  6. VickyB

    VickyB New Member

    I am sorry I still don't understand what kind of test to ask for. I would not like to go through the embarrassment of asking for the wrong kind test. Which kind of testing would be the most accurate and the least expensive the insurance company??
    Thanks, Vicky
  7. dojomo

    dojomo New Member

    The test is called.."heavy metal screen" that is what the doc will order..... But, the metals that are included will depend on the lab he sends it to. Most all screens include, mercury, lead, and arsenic.
    All labs are different and...all insurance comp are different....You will have to call your insurance company to see what it will cover.

    Did I confuse you more?....sorry
  8. VickyB

    VickyB New Member

    Thanks for the reply. So the hair strand test is not the way to go??
  9. dojomo

    dojomo New Member

    Ive read that hair tests can indicate past exposure...but I have read conflicting articles on the accuracy as far as determining amount of exposure.....I don't believe there is any test availabile to have mecurialism.....or your body is just loaded with mercury....

    My theory is based on the probability of exposure...(very high probability)...and the symptoms mercury exposure can induce.

    I look at the fact that I have had vaccinations, I have mercury in my mouth, I worked in a hospital for 15 years and .... I can't say how much I breathe, drink or eat.
    But according to the EPA....our air, water and food are all above safe levels.

    So I have to assume that as far as my symptoms go....I could likely be living with levels above my genetic threshold......another words...I can't prove it..and I don't know how to either...........DJ

    Micky (Mouse)....I don't now what happened to your posts....but I always appreciate your acknowledements.....Thanks.....DJ

  10. VickyB

    VickyB New Member

    Thanks for your honesty. I agree with you 100%. Just one more question: Would you say it is a waste of time having these inacurate tests done?? And maybe wait until someone comes up with a better test? These are probably stupid questions but just curious.
    Thanks again, Vicky
  11. stillafreemind

    stillafreemind New Member

    I am in your corner on this I think.The more I read about it (thanks to you) the more I can see that this is definitely A comonnon denominator for all. Hey, we all eat, we all drink and we all breath the air. I think mercury is a large culprit..but I believe alot of things are toxic to us..and due to what ever circumstances that pertain to each of us..we all handle the toxicity at different times and in different ways. Yes, I believe we have mycroplasmas..but I believe everything does. It makes since to me that the toxic poisoning would exaserbate the mycroplasmas into causing havoc.

    People say that they are not exposed, I can harldy believe that. Just what goes into our foods..the amount of vaccinations hogs get..would astound you..let me you all not think that the mercury in those vaccinations stays within the pork? If not..why? And if consume it when eating that pork chop or tenderloin. That is just one animal. When I was factory raising them for others..the mommas got hit with at least ten vaccines in the cycle of breeding to gestation to farrowing and back to breeding. That does not count the amount of vaccinations that are given to that same momma when she was born and as she grew. It is non stop..take my word for it..and you would not believe what the vaccinations are for.

    Thank you for this..I must ask..what are you doing to rid yourself of toxins like this?

    Keep up the good work dojomo..I do appreciate more than you know. And I am sorry I have not responded to this earlier. blessings...Sherry
  12. layinglow

    layinglow New Member

    I would readily agree that there are a subset of patients with these disorders who can directly attribute toxins as the contributor to their illnesses. I believe also that in many of us, that toxins are a co-contributor, or have compromised our systems in such a way to weaken them allowing other triggers to set off these disorders.

    There are many other contributing factors in my opinion, as well.
    I believe viral, bacterial, fungal, and trauma to be inducing factors to the onset of CFS and FMS.

    There have been those who have detoxified, have there not, that still manifest the symptoms of these disorders? There have been those whose test results have yielded no heavy metal toxicity. So, to reiterate, I think there is only a subset of patients, who can directly attribute heavy metal toxicity to their illness. Certainly these disorders are on the rise (or at least there accounting of such), and toxins in our environment are also on the rise. There is a correlation between increased environmental illnesses, and the increased toxins on our planet.

    I think, however, we have yet, to get the complete picture, but do have pieces of the puzzle.
    Best wishes in your quest for wellness,
    [This Message was Edited on 04/04/2003]
  13. VickyB

    VickyB New Member

    I have a question: I have started taking Citrudex and I was wondering if you might know how it works. The literature says that Citrudex helps remove ammonia by accelerating the urea cycle in the liver. Does this make any sense to you or anyone else on the board??
  14. clueless

    clueless New Member

    I worked for Motorola for 25 yrs. and was exposed to many chemicals including working in a small room with no vents testing modules in a high degree oven. We worked wth one chemical that afterward we found out went into your blood stream and remained there. The company moved from that location and left a toxic dump that was pumped for some time trying to get the chemicals out of the soil. There is no question that many of the chemicals still remain. Another company bought the place and people are still working there and in my mind I believe still being exposed to chemicals. I am very touchy around any lawn sprays, hair spray etc. I believe my system is still full of the chemicals. Poor choice of jobs that is for sure but it was a good paying place and drew people for that reason.
  15. sb439

    sb439 New Member

    I'm sure that in my case exposure to neurotoxins (mercury, paints, pesticides) is a main factor why I'm feeling so bad (diagnosed CFIDS), as nobody else in my family is ill with an autoimmune disease, MS, CFIDS, FMS, or anything like that, and none of them was exposed to toxins as I was. I don't think this holds for everybody with CFIDS though. I also believe there is genetic susceptibility.

    But my main question is: How do we get the dam*ed stuff out of our brains? Any ideas? (I'm already detoxing for mercury with NDF, had amalgam fillings out, eat organic food, lots of veg, avoid all chemicals, household and other, but still my brain is A MESS!)

  16. dojomo

    dojomo New Member

    Up to the powers that be. We can't stop breathing or eating, but we can insist on changes, which are happening.

    My dentist told me that the government knows how dangerous and toxic mercury amalgams are, but don't want to create mass hysteria about it. They just ban mercury amalgams and in a generation or won't be an issue.

    I plan on getting mine removed this summer. I drink only filtered water and don't eat fish at all. Of course I will only take a vaccination if my life depended on it.

    I don't think any amount of mercury in the body is safe. And it is difficult to determine the actual amount we have in our tissues by any analysis other than biopsy right now.

    But the studies show we DO have a problem with mercury. And mercuy that you have handled as a child could still be in your is the accumulative affect that is dangerous.

    I said before.....this is impossible to prove with any of todays testing......but it concerns me that the government would make all these EXPENSIVE changes for nothing.
    If it walks like a duck......DJ

  17. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    I have a great deal of respect for DJ, and for all of the others here who are willing to ask tough questions, think, read, and research this. More of us should be willing to use our own brain matter, and not wait for the docs to do it for us.
    However, I cannot see this as the major culprit in FMS for the following reasons:
    1. Broad exposure toxins, that are in air, water, food, etc. as you mention, do not discriminate on the basis of sex. They do discriminate on the basis of weight (ie. a child breathing the same affected air will get sick sooner and than an adult) and age (because age relates to the initial integrity of the immune system, with immunity being weakest at both ends of life), and are therefore much more likely to attack babies, small children and very old people, rather than a bunch of middle-aged women.
    2. I do not know about CFS, and I am not addressing CFS here, but FMS symptoms have been written about in medical literature all the way back to as early as the year 1430. The pollution level of noxious chemicals back then was close to nill. Organic substances burned for heat and then inhaled as smoke were about the only environmental pollutants, but they were not chemical, and mercury fillings were unknown.
    I can see mercury as a peripheral probelm, adding to the toxic overload, but until someone adequately explains away the above problems, I cannot buy this as T.H.E. answer.
    Thanks for the thought provoking post,
  18. dojomo

    dojomo New Member

    Thanks for respectfully disagreeing..... I really do want to hear or see something I might be missing.

    I do want to say that there ARE heavy metals and pesticides that are what is called... "Estrogen Disruptors" (Birth control for bugs)... that will affect women....
    So I have to say that some toxins used today can be SEXIST.....

    Not trying to push my theory...just toss it around....thanks for your input..DJ
  19. dojomo

    dojomo New Member

    ........of studies I found relating to endocrine disruptors...thought I would add it to this thread.

    Cognitive effects of endocrine-disrupting chemicals

    A large number of chemical pollutants including phthalates, alkylphenolic compounds, polychlorinated biphenyls and polychlorinated dibenzodioxins, organochlorine pesticides, bisphenol A, and metals including lead, mercury, and cadmium have the ability to disrupt endocrine function in animals. Some of these same chemicals have been shown to alter cognitive function in animals and humans.

    Because hormonally mediated events play a central role in central nervous system development and function, a number of researchers have speculated that the changes in cognitive function are mediated by the endocrine-like actions of these chemicals. In this paper we review the evidence that cognitive effects of chemicals classified as environmental endocrine disruptors are mediated by changes in hormonal function. We begin by briefly reviewing the role of gonadal steroids, thyroid hormones, and glucocorticoids in brain development and brain function. We then review the endocrine changes and cognitive effects that have been reported for selected endocrine-disrupting chemicals, discuss the evidence for causal relationships between endocrine disruption and cognitive effects, and suggest directions for future research