Pure Naturpaths viewpoints vs. Integrative Approach Drs.

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by PaulMark, Nov 12, 2002.

  1. PaulMark

    PaulMark New Member

    I just read the "healing crisis by Bruce Fife ND"

    AS many of U know Dr. Cheney is an MD (PHD in physics Duke) treats pain in many CFIDS patients basis of the NMDA receptor mediated neurtoxicity paradigm (not taught in med school) he learned this in physics doctorate

    Ex. (from my initial office visit notes of ll/98) magnesium injection low dose, low dose Nuerontin and low dose Doexepin elixir. I use the whey protein isolates as tolerated or Secure a precusor to glutiathine of which I’m low

    I have the type of immune system 65% of CFIDS patients have where the TH2 system is overactive causing low NK function and the imbalance of this TH1 TH2 causes lots of problems

    I working with a nutritionist from CA mostly over e mail he’sstudied natupathy, It's been my experience most ND are strictly anti med although i consider Cheney more of an Dr. Andrew WEill type integretative approach practitioners.

    And what is bothering is this: FIFE talks about the healing crisis vs. the disease crisis, it makes sense. Most of his case studies are about "curing" cancer with nutrition, supplements detox programs; however, none on CFIDS which is a different animal, and I’m not in any way minimizing cancer.

    These "pure " natupaths make it sound like if you take medication you will never ever get well or improve. WELL when I lst got sick and was able to drive (before dx by Cheney on ll/98) , I came to Nash. And saw a naturpath, I went through a series of Hyd. Peroxide IV and colonics. Long story short, no one could address the top had several colonics, hydrogen peroxide IV’s etc. NO one could address the TOP symptoms I’ve listed mostly # 1 and 2 then. I’ve developed more symptoms as CFS has worsened over time. None of the strictly alternatives could address the top symptoms. So I went to Cheney and got dx. I still have the pain, yes something organic is at the root, if I knew what I’d be well.

    QUESTION: My phar. has told me that neur. Klon.. and dox. exlicirare not expeledl through the 950 cytocrome system which is impaired in CFS patients, i..e. Our bodies will not mobilize the toxins a healthy person can. CFS is complex, the CFIDS Chronicles recently profiled "megan" an ll yr. Old who has CFS since age 4. She put it better than I could have "it’s like having the flu everyday only the pain is Much worse."

    IDEALLY I THINK MOST OF US AND OUR GOALS WOULD BE TO NIX Nix the meds, I’ve tried several times, and I cannot sleep or take the worsened pain, which is very unorthodox pain and my type is not addressed by takign thenarcotics as many of you must take. But then again, i guess to each of us all of our pain is unorthodox pain to each of us.

    I’ve explained to the naturpath nutritionist over the email that I ‘ve tried nix medusa and cannot take it at this point , he understands that

    TO THE POINT sorry to ramble - I wonder if I or we can heal naturally or improve condition if we have to take medication at least for now or possibly for many yrs.?The pure naturpaths are so anti med it bothers me emotionally and I have enough to deal with Bruce Fife ND says the "disease crisis" vs. the healing crisis comes after build up of toxins from food drugs environmental pollutants and microorganisms. He’s right, but as I said it is not that simple in CFIDS it is a different animal and the pathophysiology is complex.

    I thank you so for any imput God bless Paul Mark Story

  2. PaulMark

    PaulMark New Member

    I just read the "healing crisis by Bruce Fife ND"

    AS many of U know Dr. Cheney is an MD (PHD in physics Duke) treats pain in many CFIDS patients basis of the NMDA receptor mediated neurtoxicity paradigm (not taught in med school) he learned this in physics doctorate

    Ex. (from my initial office visit notes of ll/98) magnesium injection low dose, low dose Nuerontin and low dose Doexepin elixir. I use the whey protein isolates as tolerated or Secure a precusor to glutiathine of which I’m low

    I have the type of immune system 65% of CFIDS patients have where the TH2 system is overactive causing low NK function and the imbalance of this TH1 TH2 causes lots of problems

    I working with a nutritionist from CA mostly over e mail he’sstudied natupathy, It's been my experience most ND are strictly anti med although i consider Cheney more of an Dr. Andrew WEill type integretative approach practitioners.

    And what is bothering is this: FIFE talks about the healing crisis vs. the disease crisis, it makes sense. Most of his case studies are about "curing" cancer with nutrition, supplements detox programs; however, none on CFIDS which is a different animal, and I’m not in any way minimizing cancer.

    These "pure " natupaths make it sound like if you take medication you will never ever get well or improve. WELL when I lst got sick and was able to drive (before dx by Cheney on ll/98) , I came to Nash. And saw a naturpath, I went through a series of Hyd. Peroxide IV and colonics. Long story short, no one could address the top had several colonics, hydrogen peroxide IV’s etc. NO one could address the TOP symptoms I’ve listed mostly # 1 and 2 then. I’ve developed more symptoms as CFS has worsened over time. None of the strictly alternatives could address the top symptoms. So I went to Cheney and got dx. I still have the pain, yes something organic is at the root, if I knew what I’d be well.

    QUESTION: My phar. has told me that neur. Klon.. and dox. exlicirare not expeledl through the 950 cytocrome system which is impaired in CFS patients, i..e. Our bodies will not mobilize the toxins a healthy person can. CFS is complex, the CFIDS Chronicles recently profiled "megan" an ll yr. Old who has CFS since age 4. She put it better than I could have "it’s like having the flu everyday only the pain is Much worse."

    IDEALLY I THINK MOST OF US AND OUR GOALS WOULD BE TO NIX Nix the meds, I’ve tried several times, and I cannot sleep or take the worsened pain, which is very unorthodox pain and my type is not addressed by takign thenarcotics as many of you must take. But then again, i guess to each of us all of our pain is unorthodox pain to each of us.

    I’ve explained to the naturpath nutritionist over the email that I ‘ve tried nix medusa and cannot take it at this point , he understands that

    TO THE POINT sorry to ramble - I wonder if I or we can heal naturally or improve condition if we have to take medication at least for now or possibly for many yrs.?The pure naturpaths are so anti med it bothers me emotionally and I have enough to deal with Bruce Fife ND says the "disease crisis" vs. the healing crisis comes after build up of toxins from food drugs environmental pollutants and microorganisms. He’s right, but as I said it is not that simple in CFIDS it is a different animal and the pathophysiology is complex.

    I thank you so for any imput God bless Paul Mark Story

  3. pam_d

    pam_d New Member

    You know, everybody here on this board has a different story. This disease affects everybody differently, and we all come here with unique experiences in our quest to feel better. I personally like the integrated practitioner approach, because I don't think I'd want to be closed to any option that might make a positive difference in my health.

    I have said before here that, at least right now, I don't use meds----trust me, it's not because I'm more stoic, or noble, or have less pain, it's because I've found that I am so God-awful sensitive to med side effects, it's just not worth it to me. So now I'm looking more into natural methods & supplements---but believe me, I'm just as skeptical in a way about their side effects, so I'm cautiously forging ahead...but I would be the last person to be critical in any way about someone's med choices, or if they are taking a list of them that are a mile long! To me, a person's QUALITY of life with this DD is everything. Sure maybe no one dies from FM or CFS, but it's not living to be in constant, unrelenting pain---having some quality of life, some minimal comfort, is what we are all wanting. Maybe that means meds---and just like a lot of things in life, there are pros and cons. Will a med be toxic to your body in the long haul? Maybe, but then you--and your doctor--weigh the risks against the benefits.

    I'm always happy to learn here about the natural healing people are doing--and I'm learning a lot about supplements & alternative treatments. I'm always glad to see someone doing better from this approach! But, I'm equally happy to learn someone here has found the right combination of meds that makes them post "Wow, I'm feeling better than I have in weeks!"---it's all quality of life, and we each have to find it for ourselves...

    Good luck to you, Paul Mark & hope your path improves your quality of life!

    Pam
  4. sofy

    sofy New Member

    Each must find their own fix for their their unique cause and symptoms. I am very uncomfortable with a broad black and white brush. The discovery of many drugs have been nothing less than miraculous for many. The discovery of insulin is one. That said you cannot take insuline and eat all the goodies you want and expect to stay and be healthy. I am grateful for the many advances in the medical field but only too keenly aware of its limitations. I have an open mind (when it functions) and would never say never just because it was fish or fowl. If I get phenu. I will take an antibiotic but also try to eat better to strengthen my body in the future. I will not feel guilty for any approach that benefits my well being. The fact that it is a drug, herb or something sold to you by a naturopath does not make it necessarily good, bad, better or worse. Each treatment should be judged by positive results. I took glucosamin and chondroitin for a number of years and now find there is a suspected link to taking it and the duptreyns (contracture of fingers) that I have developed in my left hand. I don't fear supplements or herbs but am certainly mindful that no one is keeping a scorecard of the thousand taking them and what side effects or long term effects they might have on long term well being.
  5. lucky

    lucky New Member

    I read your message with interest and just like to add a few words of my own experiences which I had with naturopaths, homeopaths and others who do not believe in medication. After being diagnosed with CFS first, and not knowing much about it, anybody who promised me a cure, was believed without any doubt. That was 15 yrs. ago.
    However, the results of these promises were that I got sicker and sicker and sicker until finally I had no choice but look for medical treatments. And, up to today, I have absolutely no confidence in any of these healing methods. I went through everything, and if they would have made my life any better with all the money I spent, I would be very healthy today. And, as you know, if one is not believing in any such treatments, no matter what they are, they will not help one way or another anyway.
    With my own experience I have come to the conclusion that if there are severe health problems which most of us have, they should be addressed properly and treated accordingly. Alternative medicines can only do so much, and may be of some benefit, if taken in combination with meds which many of us need. Anyway, I learned my lesson and will not ever believe any of these 'quacks' in my life again. Most of them are not doing it for charity and people spend a lot of money because they are just so very desperate and believe anybody who promises just a little bit of hope. Kind regards, Lucky