question about low body temps and "fevers"

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by bigmama2, Apr 24, 2009.

  1. bigmama2

    bigmama2 New Member

    hi - i have cfs- and for as long as i can remember my normal/typical body temperature is on the low side.( usually is about 97.) when i feel sick with a fever and my face is flushed- i take my temp and it is only 99. so for me is that a "fever"? it has to be, right?

    anybody else with this? i have it right now. ugh.

    bigmama2
  2. Bruin63

    Bruin63 Member

    I run a "normal temp" around 97.3.
    When I am feeling like I have a temp. it's usually 98.9 or 99. something, then I know it's a fever for sure.

    My Dr.s nurse's take my Temp and then tell me it's the same as last time, which for me is normal, I guess.

    I have FMS, and CMPD and I do believe that the low body temp is a part of the conditions.

    My Sis, runs a low temp also, she lives with me, and we take each others temps, lol.

    Do you have any body aches, with it? I do, at times, then at other times, I have a sore throat, on the right side, and swollen glands, and a sore neck.

    Hope your feeling better,
    sharonk
  3. TeaBisqit

    TeaBisqit Member

    I went to the ER on Wed night for my thyroid. I felt like I had a fever of a hundred and four, they take my temperature, it's 97. But if you felt my face, it was warm. I don't understand it. I've been running these fevers all year and my temperature rarely goes above 99.

    There have also been times where in the past, I'd go and have a low body temperature of 92 or 93. So for me 97 is a high fever.

    I've heard Lyme does all this, but I don't know.
  4. richvank

    richvank New Member

    Hi, all.

    In general, if a person has a lower than normal body temperature, it means that their metabolic rate (the rate at which their cells are burning food for fuel) is lower than normal. Normally, the metabolic rate over the long term is controlled by the thyroid, so that doctors typically check the thyroid hormones in cases of low body temperature and other symptoms that suggest low thyroid.

    In CFS, in many cases the thyroid hormone levels will be normal, but the person is still running at at a lower than normal body temperature. This is often baffling to the doctors.

    The Glutathione Depletion--Methylation Cycle Block (GD-MCB) hypothesis for CFS offers an explanation for this, and it has been supported by more evidence as time goes on.

    Basically, the mitochondria, which are the little power plants in the cells, which oxidize foods and make ATP and heat, are dysfunctional in CFS. This has now been measured directly by Acumen Lab in the UK, and the work has been published and was reported at the IACFS/ME conference in Reno last month. Dr. Sarah Myhill (of Wales) is the lead author on the paper.

    According to the GD-MCB hypothesis, the mitochondria become dysfunctional originally in CFS because their glutathione becomes depleted. Later on, other problems develop in the mitochondria because of this depletion, including low magnesium and buildup of various toxins that would ordinarily be removed by glutathione.

    I believe that the inability to produce a high fever stems from the same problem. In a normal person, without CFS, a fever is generated by raising the metabolic rate, under the control of the hypothalamus temperature set point which governs the thyroid. The set point is raised by cytokines from the immune system when there is an infection, for example. In a person with severe CFS, the mitochondria cannot be ramped up enough to generate a high fever, even though the thyroid tries to do so, for the above reason.

    I have found that the solution to these problems, as well as the other manifestations of CFS, in most cases, is to lift the methylation cycle block, which allows glutathione to come back up to normal, and this eventually enables the mitochondria to function properly again.

    I have posted about this several times over the past two years, and you can find my posts by using the search function. I recommend that people have the Vitamin Diagnostics methylation pathways panel run to determine whether they have glutathione depletion and a partial methylation cycle block. If they do, I encourage them, together with their physician, to consider the simplified treatment approach for lifting the methylation cycle block. I have also described the treatment in several posts to this board. Dr. Nathan and I recently presented the results of a clinical study of this treatment, which produced improvement in over two-thirds of the patients studied.

    Best regards,

    Rich


    [This Message was Edited on 04/25/2009]
  5. panthere

    panthere Member

    Thanks for describing the mechanism behind low body temperature. But, how would you describe high body temperature? Does methylation explain that? I have chronic EBV and run the temperature between 99.5 and 100.5 all the time. I know it is probably caused by me fighting EBV all the time, but was wondering if methylation has anything to do with that. I am just starting on that treatment...
  6. richvank

    richvank New Member

    Hi, Panthere.

    The beautiful thing about the GD-MCB hypothesis is that it is global enough to explain everything in CFS! :)-) That might make you suspicious about it, but I think it's actually true.

    The low fever does suggest an ongoing viral infection. The body tends to maintain a low fever when fighting a viral infection. Since you know you have a chronic EBV infection, that adds up pretty well.

    So why are you able to maintain a low fever, while another PWC never has a fever and always runs low on their body temperature? And why isn't your immune system able to put the EBV back into latency?

    On the fever, I think it means that your mitochondria are able to function well enough that they can generate the heat needed to maintain a low fever. It would be interesting to know what your glutathione level is. It may not be very low, compared to some other PWCs. That would allow more mito function to take place. The Vitamin Diagnostics methylation pathways panel includes measurement of reduced and oxidized glutathione.

    Now, why can't your immune system put down the EBV? I suggest that you do in fact have some glutathione depletion as well as a partial methylation cycle block (which is tied to a partial block in the folate cycle as well). These dysfunctions tend to inhibit the cell-mediated immune response, which is needed to defeat viral infections.

    I think there are three things that normally act to keep herpes family viruses (such as EBV) in their latent state. (Note that we can't eliminate them from the body once they are there. We can only try to keep them in their latent state, so there is not active infection, and no symptoms. But they are still there.) One is a normal ratio of reduced to oxidized glutathione in the cells where the viruses reside. Another is methylation, which silences the expression of the viral genes. The third is a high ratio of lysine to arginine in the body. When all three are missing, there is nothing to prevent reactivation of the latent viruses.

    The methylation cycle block treatment brings back the first two. Some people are experimenting with the third, which involves taking supplemental L-lysine at up to 6 grams per day, and going easy on foods that contain a lot of arginine, such as nuts and chocolate.
    There's good evidence that this third approach works for herpes simplex I, the cold sore virus. I have some evidence that it works for varicella zoster, the chicken pox-shingles virus, and a little evidence for the EBV virus (from some teenage mononucleosis cases).

    I hope you experience benefit from the methylation cycle block treatment.

    Rich
  7. panthere

    panthere Member

    Thank you so much for replying to me. I see methylation does explain everything :) My EBV was reactivated last year and has been active since. I am waiting for my vitamin diagnostics, so will see what the ratios of glutathione are. I have my detoxigenomics results that showed I have absten GSTM1 gene. I might have to do more research in your third suggestion of lysine, very interesting. Thanks!
  8. AuntTammie

    AuntTammie New Member

    It's kind of funny....my body temp is normally around 92 - 93, but I usually feel too hot (& if you even hold your hand over the bed after I've been laying there awhile, you can totally feel heat rising off where I was laying)....I'm running a slight fever today and my temp is 94.7....just looked up hypothermia and according to what I read any body temp under 95 is considered way too low and life threatening (yet for me it's a fever!).....so bazaar, this illness

    Rich's explanation makes sense, and I so want to be tested for the whole methylation cycle thing, but I absolutely cannot afford it
    [This Message was Edited on 04/25/2009]
  9. Bruin63

    Bruin63 Member

    I don't have CS, tho.

    I have FMS and CMPD, so I am wondering how, that would fit in , with the above info.

    I do know that according to Dr. Starlyanl that is one of the symptoms of the 2 conditions I have.

    I have a Dr.s appt, this week, and I think I will ask them about this,
    thanks again for the information. I'll print it out of course, so I get it right, ....