question for richv if possible...

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by kfisher446, Apr 10, 2009.

  1. kfisher446

    kfisher446 New Member

    Im still in a terrible state with adding betaine hcl to my regime of digestive enzymes. my gut is a total mess and is contributing to my decline. I had the vitamin diag. immunobillan test which showed high antibodies to almost 60% of the bacteria tested... I have been trying diligently to get my gut in line for two months now. I started heavy with vsl#3 and had to quit because the die off was so severe. That stuff really, really helped the severe bloating though, I have to say. Now Im just taking digestive enzymes and betaine hcl 250 mg. with meals and I swear Im either in a flare from he__ or herxing. Every symptom is totally exacerbated. I feel that the hcl is killing something off ...

    anyway I read on here somewhere that you shouldnt take betaine or something because it interfers with something else but I cant find it right now and my brain is toast... rich is this true? Is there another type of acid that isnt betaine?

    should I stick with this? I was going to get ready to try to add the probiotics back in at lower amts but now Im not sure.

    I wonder if anyone ever really comes out on the other side of all this die off or if we are just going to spend the rest of our lives trying to kill things our bodies wont...

    sorry to be a downer, Im so bummed out today and feel terrible. Migrating muscle pains, hive like things on my body, blurred vision, nasal congestion, feel sick all over and the bloating is horrific!
  2. richvank

    richvank New Member

    Hi, k.

    I'm very sorry to hear about all the misery you are having to endure. It sounds as though you are doing some beneficial things for your digestive system--betaine HCl, digestive enzymes, and VSL-3 probiotics. I think these things eventually do pay off, but it takes time to get the gut back when it has become dysbiotic and dysfunctional.

    I think what you are referring to is the issue of whether betaine will interfere with treatment for the methylation cycle block. The problem is that in the cells of the liver and the kidneys, there is an alternative pathway between homocysteine and methionine, called the BHMT or betaine homocysteine methionine transferase. If a person takes a lot of betaine, it will encourage this pathway, which is in competition with the methionine synthase pathway. The latter is the one that's partially blocked in many cases of CFS, and it's the one that the methylation cycle block treatment is designed to encourage. So too much betaine may interfere with that. How much is too much? I don't know, and it probably differs for different people, depending on their genomic polymorphisms. If you aren't doing the methylation cycle block treatment, this isn't an issue. If you are, then it might be something to be concerned about.

    Some people have found that lemon juice or apple cider vinegar will raise their stomach acid enough to do some good. If lemon juice is used, it's a good idea to use a drinking straw and to flush the teeth with water afterward, because the citric acid in lemon juice can dissolve the enamel from the teeth over time.

    The only other approach I've heard of (which is a bit risky) to raise the stomach acid is to drink diluted hydrochloric acid. Of course, it's very important that it be diluted the right amount, or it can do damage to the throat and esophagus. If it's diluted too much, it won't contribute very much to the stomach acid. One person worked with a pharmacist to get the right dilution, but I don't know what the concentration was.