Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by jenn5, Sep 15, 2005.

  1. jenn5

    jenn5 New Member

    do you know of anything natural that helps with withdrawal?
    I'm trying to get off Effexor right now, I'm on a high dose, and I don't know how I'm ever gonna get there. Thanks
  2. orachel

    orachel New Member

    I just so happened to get a couple of holistic dictionaries for FM/CFS out of the library yesterday, so I thought I'd see if I might be able to offer some suggestions from books. Plus, if Ralph sees this and says "OH NO! Don't do that!" at least I'll know not to follow advice in these books! LOL....One is called Natures Pain Killers, and one is Fibromyalgia, A Journey toward Healing. I'm gonna buy both, bc they have a TON of info and if I want to know what supplements to use for something specific, I just look it up and check for interreactions w stuff I'm on.

    Ok...they both say similar stuff! That's good, I guess! They both suggest not simply ceasing any prescription drug that has a cumulitive effect in the body, as may cause withdrawls or stressers to body. Both suggest using a RAZORBLADE to gradually shave a bit more off a pill each day, to gradually reduce dosage. Man, that's interesting. I never woulda thought of that!

    They also say that most drugs are metabolized in the liver, using existing detoxification processes and can hurt your normal metabolic function, which can cause many side effects. So when trying to reduce side effects or taper dosage of prescription, best thing is use stuff that supports and strenghtens liver function...

    Milk thistle is listed specifically, but can't find any other specific herbs or supplements to support liver function!

    I know that's not very specific, but maybe you know of some herbs that support liver function aside from milk thistle, or I'm sure Ralph does!

    Good luck!

    And RALPH...if you do get this post, I'm very interested in speaking with you abt the benefits of specific chiropractic treatments for FM, if you ever have a few minutes. I see an amazing chiropractor who's practically saved me and my husband from crazy back problems, and he has a specific set of treatments he uses for FM which are ususally successful. But I'm having no effect from them, and I'm concerned (not to mention, a little dissapointed!). My chiropractor (Dr. Fields, in Toledo, OH...don't know if you are familiar with him or not, or where you are) has taken the mother of a friend of mine who suffers from LUPUS, FM,CFS, and Rheumatoid arthritis and who was nearly bed ridden and reliant on tons of meds and pain meds, and gotten her so much improvement that she's virtually med free now.

    So, I saw in your post that you specialize in this sort of thing, and while I hate to ask you for free medical advice (so sorry, and glad to do anything I can to repay you!) I'm in pretty bad shape. I have every confidence in my Chiropractors ability to assist me (of course I also see my Physical Medicine doctor), but I'm at a loss as to why it seems to be having little to no effect. Any ideas or suggestions I might bring to him to "kickstart" my therapy?

    Thanks so much for your time, and I totally understand if you end up not having time to answer my complicated question!

    [This Message was Edited on 09/16/2005]
  3. orachel

    orachel New Member

    I just reread your profile, and seems like you and my Dr. Fields (fields chiropractic...Toledo, OH) have a ridiculous amount in common, from your hobbies to your focus on holistic support to chiropractic care for whatever ails ya'. I don't know if you docs ever get together for conventions or anything like that, but I have a feeling you and Dr. Fields would be like 2 peas in a pod! Perhaps you might have information that would be helpful to each other?

    Just throwing that out there...
  4. orachel

    orachel New Member

    Just wanted to make sure you got this. Thanks soooo much for all your help!

  5. orachel

    orachel New Member

    Thanks so much for your response!! And it's also great to know the books I got on holistic therapies aren't giving bad info, based on that liver support info you OK'd. Just found out that my husband's cousin (13 year old girl, poor thing!) just got some wretched results regarding bloodwork on her liver. We don't know what the problem is yet, but isn't it amazing how something turns up just when you might need it the most?! Now I can give her the list of liver support with confidence...thanks!! And that's just a bizarre coincidence for me to find out today, after happening to look up liver info for Jenn5. The world is a pretty amazing place!

    As to Dr. Fields, I'm so dang foggy I can't even remember his first name! Isn't that awful?! I'm thinking it's David...but I could be waaay wrong. I don't know why, but I have a VERY strong feeling that you two would get along famously, and perhaps even be able to share some tricks of the trade. Since I got the DD, my mental powers have been somewhat off, but my emotions and intuition have been in overdrive! Or maybe its just the pain making me loopy. ;) Ummm...I don't even know how to begin to describe him to set off memory bells if you have crossed paths professionally with him. He's quite tall. Very distinguished looking and fit, attractive (lol...like you care, right?). He originally got into chiropractic care because his wife had a back injury when they were newly married, which I found fascinating. And I do know he has a son who plays college football (and apparently is VERY busy during football season with the entire teams' chiro care), a daughter who plays college hockey or tennis maybe (I can't remember), and whole family is VERY athletic. That's about the only personal details I know that might spark your memory if you'd ever had a chat. Oh, he's also got 3 Chinese Budgies (I'm sure I screwed that up! They're adorable tiny squeaky birds) in a huge cage in his waiting room. Very cool. The whole practice is about mind/body connection, and that's very clearly Dr. Fields influence and philosophy about life. They really stress proper chiro care for children...I need to get my stepson into see him one of these days!

    The poor guy's gotten stuck spending a ton of time with me during the most stressful period in my life. I initially presented with a sprained back (which is how my whole experience with the DD started), and I was seeing him 3-4x weekly for a few months. Also, he was the first person who mentioned FM as a possibility for me, so I really have him to thank for a quick diagnosis. I do know that I've broken down into hysterical tears more than half the times I've been in his office, poor guy!...something about not knowing what's wrong with your body, then running into a doctor who's compassionate and understanding. It just sets me to bawling, for some reason. He probably thinks I'm a total nutball, but he's pretty nice about it! I don't know what his therapy he uses with me is called, or if I did know, I've forgotten ;).

    He does basic adjustment (with me on table, he uses his arms to move my appendages around the way he wants, then uses his weight to adjust) depending on my pain levels and sites, 1st thing. Then he does some weird thing where he uses this "clicky" penlike object to poke at my trigger points in a certain way. He uses enough pressure when "clicking" me to depress and release one of those "bouncy" chiro tables. And finally, nurses use that snazzy machine on me with the electrodes and different pulses and strengths of stimulation directly to nerves, as Dr Fields orders for symptoms that day (I'm not overly fond of the cold jelly goo they use on the electrodes, personally). Now I'm sure my TOTALLY uneducated description of my chiropractic care has got to be laughable to a professional, but that's about the best I can do. Sorry! I suppose I should know what these things are called, but he just comes in and I trust him to do his thing!

    He also has literally the most amazing, kind office staff of any doc I've ever been to in my life (and unfortunately, I've been to many many doctors in my life)...just a really cool practice overall. Other doc in practice is Dr Bauer (VERY TALL! like 6'5", so very very memorable). Don't know if you know either of them, but Dr Fields is very open minded and friendly, so I'm sure he'd be ok with a professional introduction from a like minded practioner, if you wanted to call and introduce yourself. Could be mutually beneficial for both of you, and since you've both gone out of your way to help me, I'd love to do you a service, if possible! Of course, I'm assuming you chiropractic guys are as interested in networking as we are in my (former?) industry...if not, feel free to disregard all of the above!

    My concern is that as good as he is (and I know he's great...brought me a great deal of back relief, my husband feels incredible for 1st time in years, plus I've heard tons of other "raves" about his treatments), I don't seem to be having a whole heck of a lot of results with it to control or benefit my FM symptoms in any way. This obviously is a big bummer to me, and its seems to me that Dr Fields is a bit puzzled also. I've cut back drastically on my office visits, as the travel to get there was doing me more harm than the visits seemed to be doing good. I guess what I'm looking for here with this huge ole' marathon post is that we're not "missing the boat" completely on some amazing treatment that might be effective for me (and others!). Or, is the effect on FM with chiro care totally dependent on individual, and just likely to NOT work on me, like so many other FM treatments? That would be distressing, indeed. If you do have time to offer opinions/suggestions on any of this (and I certainly understand if you don't get an opportunity to respond...I understand how precious time is.) I'd be very grateful.

    Well...again, thank you so very much for all of your time. I think its quite amazing how you manage to offer so much of your time and energy to the people on these boards, and clearly we're not able to offer you a whole lot in return. You are to a very generous person to give of yourself daily to your patients, and still find the time to be so involved here and assist so many. It's quite ASTONISHING, when so many of us with these types of physical challenges feel as though we've gotta practically chase our healthcare providers down and sit on them to get them to answer a question or offer any alternatives! If there's ever anything I can do for you, please feel free to let me know. I've certainly got some extra time, lately! And you're quite entitled to send me a bill for a "long distance consultation" after you spent all this time reading my post! I hope you have a wonderful weekend, and here's wishing you and yours health and happiness!!!

    Sincerely and with thanks,

    Oh, and have you ever taken your girls to a "Rock Gym" for climbing? If not, I'm sure they'd LOVE it, plus its a very save environment to teach proper technique and safety. My step-kidlets think its the most fun EVER (5,7,8 yrs), so it would be appropriate for your kids agewise if you've never been. Climbing is a huge passion of my husband's...we recently went thru RedRocks in Nevada on a climbing trip with a ton of our friends. Time of our lives!!! Before I got sick, of course...but my goal is to get back to that level of health, and I'm pretty darn determined!
    [This Message was Edited on 09/16/2005]
  6. orachel

    orachel New Member

  7. jenn5

    jenn5 New Member

    thank you both for the advice
  8. orachel

    orachel New Member

    Hi there!
  9. orachel

    orachel New Member

    And Ralph...if you ever do get this thing (lol)....
    Your comment earlier in a post (cannot for the life of me remember which one!) about "training" husbands...or you taking issue with it... You just about cracked me up! Don't husband's talk about "training" their wives?
  10. orachel

    orachel New Member

    I absolutely don't know what I would do without my husband! I jokingly call him a saint and Wonder Husband (not to his face...wouldn't want to give him a huge head, or too much too live up to complex!). I can honestly say that my husband is one of the two kindest most selfless and thoughtful men I've ever met...the other one is his DAD! So he definitely learned from the best. And Joseph came "pre-trained".....I'm cracking up over here...but both his mom and dad were strict but really stressed the importance of respect for yourself and others, so he's got that down. Plus he's funny as heck and manages to do more in a 10 hour timeframe than I can get done in a week...and that's before I get sick!

    So, just so you know...absolutely noone's perfect (and if I ever did find a perfect person, I'd flip em' over and look for the "STEPFORD" stamp on their rump!), but some women really really do know how lucky (blessed in my case!) we are to have you guys!

    I really appreciate your response period. I wrote you a short story (lol), so I figured if you had time at all it would be a while, to say the least! Just wanted to thank you again in advance...

    Anything I can do for you (sounds silly even offering, cause I can't think of a whole heck of a lot i could do!), please let me know...

  11. orachel

    orachel New Member

    I'm in Toledo! Our kids live in columbus, as do my inlaws. We get there pretty frequently (though much less so recently as long car rides, even with stretching, are pretty rough for me for the time being).

    I don't know if you're taking new patients, or even in active practice currently. I would be v interested in the possibility of a consultation with you if possible, though. Could only be one time or very seldom thing though as distance. Don't know if you do anything like that? At least I could finally pay you for some of this great advice! lol Herbalists + Toledo, oh = disaster! Sent my hubby to one of the only 'wellness' places in the area for a massage..had a teensy tiny sore pinched nerve in his back. Clinic called me 3 hours later and told me I needed to come get him and take him straight to ER. Turns out their professional "massage therapist" literally grabbed joes tendon and yanked on it for about an hour. 2 vicodin, 2 flexeril, and a SHOT OF MORPHINE later, the poor guy finally stopped screaming! Was awful! So, needless to say, if I want pro advice on supplements etc, I'm not chancing it in my neck of the woods!