Revisit: Mainstream vs. Naturrpaths

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by PaulMark, Nov 26, 2002.

  1. PaulMark

    PaulMark New Member

    I think Klutzo who has studied natupathic med. and others with some knowledge may like to respond, It is really weighing on my mind (besides having CFIDS of course)is i''m
    looking thru Bruce Fife's Detox Book, and he is defintely anti medication. He's an N.D. that sen me his book free cause i'm broke all time, with med. supps etc. THe N.D. D.C. and nutritionist, I was working with over E Mail (didn't work out long distance relationships don't) (and cheney is stil my cfids dr.) But the ND DC in CA I was working with via e mail, did say all
    his patients did not cold turkey meds. I"m trying to cut back on the nuerontin, although i take such a low dose.

    Someone on the message board said they had a problme with painting with a black and white brush strict alternative vs. mainstream and drugs controversy i've always leaned toward alt. approaches, but these books and ND"s that say all drugs are toxic, ARE they? I know all have side effects and some are more toxic than others, So I worry well if i don't get off meds. i'll never get well according to these writings,

    fife gives case studies of people (none have cfids or fms) like a guy with severe ashtma and protrate he went into a dr. shelton's clinic they had him on varoius fast 45 days and he came out cured> Fife says on p. 42 Often mediations pare prescriged to amask the symtpoms but taking drugs only adds more chemical toxins to the body.

    He probably is right, but what do we do when we have cfids/fms and don't know the "root cause",

    This just weighs on my mind, with nothing workign and when i lst got sick i did do a lot of alt. therapies, maybe i didn't give it time, i coldn't take the pain ie the fire ants sandpaper biting burning tingling dyrness and dry dry coughing and flu like since then i've gone downhill to the point i'm bedridden l7/24 hrs. I feel deperate and when i read these books it sounds so good, but IS IT that simple,
    IN Theory yes, but in themeantime what do we with these DD do?

    I Would just like some more imput on this subject

    And I apapreciate it kindly..... Paul M.


  2. PaulMark

    PaulMark New Member

    I think Klutzo who has studied natupathic med. and others with some knowledge may like to respond, It is really weighing on my mind (besides having CFIDS of course)is i''m
    looking thru Bruce Fife's Detox Book, and he is defintely anti medication. He's an N.D. that sen me his book free cause i'm broke all time, with med. supps etc. THe N.D. D.C. and nutritionist, I was working with over E Mail (didn't work out long distance relationships don't) (and cheney is stil my cfids dr.) But the ND DC in CA I was working with via e mail, did say all
    his patients did not cold turkey meds. I"m trying to cut back on the nuerontin, although i take such a low dose.

    Someone on the message board said they had a problme with painting with a black and white brush strict alternative vs. mainstream and drugs controversy i've always leaned toward alt. approaches, but these books and ND"s that say all drugs are toxic, ARE they? I know all have side effects and some are more toxic than others, So I worry well if i don't get off meds. i'll never get well according to these writings,

    fife gives case studies of people (none have cfids or fms) like a guy with severe ashtma and protrate he went into a dr. shelton's clinic they had him on varoius fast 45 days and he came out cured> Fife says on p. 42 Often mediations pare prescriged to amask the symtpoms but taking drugs only adds more chemical toxins to the body.

    He probably is right, but what do we do when we have cfids/fms and don't know the "root cause",

    This just weighs on my mind, with nothing workign and when i lst got sick i did do a lot of alt. therapies, maybe i didn't give it time, i coldn't take the pain ie the fire ants sandpaper biting burning tingling dyrness and dry dry coughing and flu like since then i've gone downhill to the point i'm bedridden l7/24 hrs. I feel deperate and when i read these books it sounds so good, but IS IT that simple,
    IN Theory yes, but in themeantime what do we with these DD do?

    I Would just like some more imput on this subject

    And I apapreciate it kindly..... Paul M.


  3. klutzo

    klutzo New Member

    ...is the way of the future (I hope). I don't like the all-or-nothing approach of either the alternative or the conventional doctors.
    ...all drugs are toxic. They poison one system to help another, for example. Most of the drugs given to FMS patients poison the sympathetic nervous system in order to shore up the parasympathetic nervous system, for example. But, IMO, you must have enough quality of life to make it worth living, and that may require conventional meds for some people at some times.
    ...Also, some natural remedies, while effective, take 2-3 months to start working. If you are trying to hold down a job, your employer will not allow you all that time off, so you are forced to take the conventional remedy, with all it's toxic side-effects.
    ...there has to be a middle ground where you can use the best of both types of medicine. A good example of this is Dr. Andrew Weil, who has an excellent website, a free e-mail newsletter, and many books out on Integrated Medicine.
    ...my personal feeling is, try the natural way first, and if it does not work, do what you gotta do. Sometimes life demands trade-offs.
    I know you're really struggling, Paul. May God bless your continued efforts.
    Klutzo
  4. amymb74

    amymb74 New Member

    the medical field is losing every major battle against disease because they are looking for a white powder cure for everything. I have gone both ways (I have cfids no fm so pain killers etc. is not an issue) I felt my best on a natropathic's strict diet/supplements/detoxes. I had to stop because it was so expensive but I know that as soon as I can I will start up again. I am working w/an MD now trying Doxycycline - figure I'd give it a whirl because my insurance covers most of the cost. I had no idea why the natropath was working for me but - you see Dr. Cheney & his 3 phases of cfids - I think it makes sense. My natropath thinks cfids is a body full of toxins (I didn't believe it at the time but it makes sense thru Cheneys 3 phases) He did a saliva test to see what was off in my body & used a machine to see which supplements were compatable w/my body. What I ended up learning was how to detox & which supplements I needed to get back in balance. I did it about 2 months & didn't notice much of a difference until I stopped for awhile - I then started getting symptoms back that I forgot I even had - it was slow but definate progress. So in a nutshell, I was helped more by an alternative method. Amy
  5. karen2002

    karen2002 New Member

    I understand this dilema, Paul Mark....
    Conventional Meds, have contributed to some of my system breakdowns (30+years of prophylaxic antibiotics for chronic UTI's).
    In the short course of my fm/cfs....I am using an integrated approach. Some alternative meds have been a great source of symptom control, and very beneficial in system repair. They have not been able to manage other aspects--though, such as pain management, blood pressure, and neurological symptoms, so I rely on conventional meds. Some of the conventional meds I have used---I have had terrible results with--so have gone with alternative, having benefitted, from their use (seem to be gentler as an additional perk).
    I am going to stay with the integrated approach, as it is working for me, and I am making progress.
    Best wishes,
    Karen
    This is the second time I have written this.....post are disappearing like they did a while back.....
  6. lucky

    lucky New Member

    Over the years, I also have found a balance of mainstream meds (which I could not do without) and alternatives.
    To find the balance of the two takes time because we all react differently to anything we take. I hope you have a good doctor which I find is the best way to get the proper treatments.
    And, there is a lot of support on the board also, and as I slowly find out, Klutzo is the expert on alternative meds and when you read some of many messages also, you will find out what helps other members with some relating symptoms.
    I have been ill with CFS/FMS for 15 yrs., and have learned never to follow only one expert's opinion because nobody has the answe to all our problems yet. So, we are the ones, who meanwhile have to find the best answers for ourselves if we can - which makes it difficult sometimes. I wish you well and luck to find a treatment which will help you. Lucky
  7. PaulMark

    PaulMark New Member

    thank you KLut. karen and amy (did i leave anyone out?) for response, The stress of this probably is worse than the meds, AMY i too have primary dx from cheney of CFIDS i've dev. more body muscle achign pain in last l.5 yrs. he has me on that neurontin, helps the nerves, my top sypotom that is so unortodox (i guess we all have thosse) is the dry burning intermitten cough dryness fire ant tingling biting tongue mouth throat bronchi and flu like,

    I've been so sick last 2 days i've subsisted on ultra clear plus and similar soy based nut. drink and vegggies juices and i'm l32 lbs. at 6 ft. i
    'm hungry but too sick to stay up long enough to eat and digest

    Anyways, to you have an opinion that ALL drugs are toxic to our bodies??? tHis is what bothers me so much these blanket statement and maybe they are true, he quotes stan malstorm NC as basically saying the obdy does stre many of hte byproduts of nearly all drugs, and when delminated they throw the body into a tox crisis ,

    the give case studies (all supervised) of people goign into clinics nd fasting of somekind or nother for days on end and coming out cured, no ex. of cfids though

    i'd give it a try if one near in rural w. ky. and i hve no $$, you relate

    Amy could you give me some ideas on detox, can you detox while taking meds. my meds are low dose 300 neur. (HS) bed, .lmg klon. and 3 little drops of doximpin HS

    I take l/3 the dose of tianeptine an antidepressant that at least does not block our 450 cytocrome system, and many SSRI's i guess it helps a little except when the pain is so bad nothing would help depression,

    you all can relate to that

    God bless
    paulstory@iolky.com
  8. amymb74

    amymb74 New Member

    He had me stop taking everything & not start supplements until I was done w/4 days of detoxing. The detox he put me on was very basic - I know many docs who use it - 1 qt. sea salt water followed by 'cayenne pepper lemonade'. I can give you the exact protocal if you like - its cheap & he said this is a detox anybody can do - let me know & I will find the paper w/the exact amounts of everything. Where are you from? This guy is in Maine and just amazing. But expensive & like you I don't have $ right now to see him. The only person I know of who recovered (I know others don't like that so I should say is in remission) went to him after having this for 23 years. I know her well - she is my hope that I can get better. She was not just a little fatigued - she was full-blown house & bed bound cfids. OK now I'm rambling - I'll find that paper & get back to you tonite or tom. morning (I recently moved & forever unpacking!)......Amy.... Oh, also, as you are a patient of cheney - what is your opinion on his 3 phase theory?
  9. PaulMark

    PaulMark New Member

    AMY from PM

    Yes CHen. dx me with CFIDS in ll/98 and i've gone downhill eversince, no i don't blame him it's touigh to get treated in w. kentucky form asheville NC esp. when P. consults are 8 50 per min. as well as faxed responses

    he is big on prescribing supplment pills, i have trouble swallowing them, being up long enough tot take it all and lately i do good to eat onece a day in bed most all day juice and 2 different nutritional powdered drinkds keep me from being more starved, at l32 lbs. and then i get up when the cook gets here (thank you mom and dad) and i eat like a pig and then i'm sick.

    i under. being broke, i'm broke my last PC was l530 bucks

    and i've got so many different people one says take this tonic, one says do eneams, FIFE's books says no herbal cleanses until nat. food diets, colon cleanse, kid. cleanse, liver cleanse, most of these are reminescent of hulda r. clarks celanses i tried when i wwas lst sick the liver flush really tore me up, eps. salts olive oil, etc. fife has a less harmful one

    the problem with CFIDS is most of us are too sick to do all of that stuff or buy the stuff to do it with,

    the herbal tonic people say it will do this slowly and some herbablist back up those adverstisments,

    it's all so confusing and i'm driving myself mad, why cause i hurt so bad and so flu like dry coughing in pain and I"M one of those homeboudn and bedridden i know there has to be more help out there

    What do i thinks of chen. 3 phase i think he's right, but nobody knows for sure why .... nothing he's tried on me has worked and i've been in 2 studies of his

    the ND"s have g ood theory i think the body will heal itelf if given the right opportunity, but getting there is the torture, they hate meds, i tried last 3 days to back off neurtonin only to make me more stressed and nervous, it don't help the fire ants sandpaper flue lke dry coughing and burnign biting in my mouth tongue thoat bronci but helps me cope a little better and sleep along wtih low dose Klon. and little doxipin, at bed.

    Cheney is smart no doubt about it.

    WEll if U want to know more about what all he's tried on me it may work on someone else, i hope so,

    god bless PM
    paulstory@iolky.com

    ps i live in kuttawa KY on the lake a small county in west. ky.

    rural area, can't get much organic stuff here, very mainstream here locally....