Rich (questions re your reply to scapper)

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by AuntTammie, Apr 29, 2011.

  1. AuntTammie

    AuntTammie New Member

    I don't want to hijak that thread so I am starting a new one.

    I have had problems with some of the supplements for the methylation block and so thus far have not tried your actual protocol for that reason. I still very much want to try it and I am positive that the reason I have the issues is because my gut is seriously messed up. I am very slowly getting to doctors to try to work on that but have been so sick (& have such an insane sleep/wake cycle), it is taking a really long time.

    So, what I am wondering is about the possibility of supplementing with glutathione until I am able to get the stomach stuff at least somewhat improved. (I know that you don't normally advise simply supplementing with glutathione and I pretty much understand why's not a long term solution). Anyway, I have two questions about this based on what you wrote to scapper re the digestive system.

    One: Is the point you made re toxins being mobilized an issue that arises from the methylation block treatment itself, or is it due to the resulting production of glutathione that occurs once that block is removed? I mean, if it's due to the glutahione itself, then obviously it wouldn't make sense to try that as a short term thing because it would likely make me sicker and it's an expensive treatment to try. However, at this point if taking glutahione itself would help even a little until I could try the protocol, it would be worth it, and might help me get to Drs sooner and get other stuff a little more under control so that I can try the protocol sooner, too.

    And two: Would it even be likely that my body would be able to utilize any of the glutahione if my stomach is so screwed up?

    And actually, I have a third question, too: Do you know what sort of treatments the Dr you mentioned is using for the stomach stuff? I realize that there are a variety of gut issues, so you may not really be able to answer this one, but I am curious becasue so far everything that Drs have tried with me for those issues (both to figure out exactly what is going on, and to try to treat it) has only made things worse. Probiotics (tried several different ones, too) especially worsened things and those seem to be one of the standard digestive treatments. At this point, there are almost no foods that I can eat and actually digest them properly (or at all - a lot of them come rt back up). And, yet, digestive enzymes have also not been helpful.

    Anyway, thanks for any input you can give.
  2. richvank

    richvank New Member

    Hi, Aunt Tammie.

    I think that a good part of the detox symptoms that people experience on the methyation treatment is caused by raising glutathione, but I don't have proof for that. The reason I think so is that glutathione normally plays roles in both Phase 1 and Phase 2 detox, and it is depleted in most cases of ME/CFS. There are other metabolites that are also involved in detox that are also raised when the methylation cycle block is lifted, however. These include SAMe, cysteine, taurine and sulfate. So it's difficult to say for sure how much is caused by raising glutathione alone.

    Ordinary oral glutathione is mostly broken down in the gut even under normal conditions. Some of the amino acids that result are carried to the liver, where they can be used to re-form glutathione, but this is not a very effective way to raise glutathione. Perhaps the best way to supplement glutathione directly is by use of one of the liposomal glutathione products. These can pass through the wall of the digestive system, and don't depend on how well it is functioning. I recommend that people have adequate niacin (B3) on board if they are going to supplement glutathione directly, so that it can be recycled when it becomes oxidized.

    I'm not sure what that particular doc does for the digestive system. I am somewhat familiar with the approach used by Dr. de Meirleir though, and he probably does the most comprehensive diagnosis and treatment for the digestive system in ME/CFS.

    Here are the tests that I have heard that Dr. de Meirleir runs for the gut:
    1. Lactose intolerance breath test
    2. Fructose malabsorption breath test
    3. Urine hydrogen sulfide test--ProteaPharma in Belgium
    4. Blood D-lactate test
    5. Expanded G.I. Panel--Diagnos-techs in U.S (3 stool samples and a saliva sample). This one looks for a variety of things, including some food sensitivities, including antigliadin antibody. Yeast, bacteria and some parasites are included.
    6. Urobilinogen test--RedLabs in Belgium or VIPDx lab in Reno
    7. Faecal microbial analysis--RedLabs in Belgium (This test uses an oxygen absorber in a sealed stool sample container to preserve the anaerobic bacteria.)
    8. Food sensitivities test (IgE, IgG, IgA)--U.S. Bio Tek Laboratories

    His treatment is driven by the test results, and is specific to the issues found. If the person has intolerance to lactose, or malabsorption of fructose,
    or food sensitivities, he instructs the person to avoid these in their diet.
    If he finds Streptococcus or Enterococcus bacteria in the stool tests, he prescribes specific antibiotics to eliminate them, and alternates periods of
    antibiotic treatment with periods of probiotic treatment. He uses VSL#3 and Mutaflor probiotics, depending on which beneficial bacteria are deficient. If he finds parasites or yeasts, he also treats them.
    I've heard that he uses Alinia for parasites. I don't know if he augments stomach acid with betaine-HCl or not. I also don't know if he uses
    digestive enzymes. Some of this information may not be current, but I think it is accurate for the most part.

    I hope this is helpful.

    Best regards,

  3. AuntTammie

    AuntTammie New Member

    It's very helpful as usual....thanks so much!