SAM-E - anyone used this supplement ?

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by deepak, May 14, 2015.

  1. deepak

    deepak Member

    Hi all,

    Posting after ages :)

    Has anyone used this supplement called SAM-E ? Supposed to be very good for arthritis and FM pains and also for depression - Wondering how safe is it ?

    Tried doing a search on it in past posts in forum but got no results.

    Love to all

  2. ljimbo42

    ljimbo42 Active Member

    Hi Deepak- I have been taking SAM-e for over a year now. It is very safe from the research I have done on it. I haven't noticed that it helps with the pain of FM and I don't have arthritis. It does help me tremendously with energy and I won't be without it for that reason. I think it also helps with my depression, I take 400mg a day. It is a strong methyl donor and is really good for methylation.

    One thing to be aware of is that it can cause over-methylation in some people, it did me. It caused a lot of anxiety and gave me more energy than I new what to do with. So if you do try it, I would keep some niacin (nicotonic acid), not niacinamide, on hand to stop the over-methylation if it happens. I use 1/4 of a 250mg tablet of slow release niacin, so I don't flush from it. Niacin can cause a flushing that feels a little like a sunburn, but is harmless and goes away in about 30-45 minutes.

    I have never had any flushing from the slow release niacin though and it works great for over-methylation. I no longer get over-methylated from the SAM-e, that went away within a few days or so. I take many methyl donors though, which increase energy, so sometimes I need it to help me sleep. Jim
  3. deepak

    deepak Member

    Thanks Jim.

    I read that one must take b12 and methylfolate along with it as it converts into homocysteine in the body which may not be good for the heart. Do you take those ?

    A lot of my pain issues are much better but I still do feel low on energy and unmotivated so was looking at Sam-e

  4. ljimbo42

    ljimbo42 Active Member

    I am taking B-12 and methyl-folate, but for other reason's. Primarily for increased energy and better methylation. As far as SAM-e raising homocysteine levels goes, that doesn't appear to be a problem. In this study-
    15 people worked up to 1600mg a day over 5 days and stayed at 1600mg a day for 4 weeks. The results were that "No subject exhibited elevated homocysteine levels during SAMe treatment".

    Here is another source that says SAM-e can actually help to lower homocysteine-

    I also found an article by Dr. Andrew Weil. I don't know if you have heard of him, but he is a functional medicine doctor that's been around forever.;) He also says that SAM-e does not raise homo-cysteine. Given all this info, high homocysteine does not seem to be a problem. All the best....... Jim
  5. deepak

    deepak Member

    Thanks Jim for those links.

    Did you take any potassium when you started taking the methylfolate and what dose of each did you take ?
  6. ljimbo42

    ljimbo42 Active Member

    Hi deepak- I started the methylfolate very, very slowly. Methylfolate speeds up the methylation cycle and as it does it increases the production of DNA to make new cells and it also increases glutathione.

    Glutathione is a powerful antioxidant and detoxifier, so it can speed up detoxification and overwhelm the body. It did just that with me, so I started with about 50mcg and went up from there, VERY slowly because of detox symptoms. It took me about 3-4 months to get to 800mcg.

    I finally read at Phoenix Rising where somebody said they went up on there methylfolate in small doses every 2-3 days and were able to get to a high dose relatively quickly. So I tried that and it worked great. I went from 800mcg to 6.4mg (6,400mcg) in a couple of months. I went up 100-200mcg every 2-3 days. My best understanding of what happens is as the glutathione levels come up, toxins are released from cells.

    The toxins that are released from the cells, quickly use up the glutathione and leave lower levels of glutathione than before I took the methylfolate. So by taking a higher dose of methylfolate every 2-3 days, the levels of glutathione are consistantly being raised, therefore, reducing or eliminating symptoms of detox. I also read an article by Dr. Ben Lynch at the other day.

    He says that another reason is because bringing up methylation increases DNA methylation and therefore cell replication and repair, the increase in cell numbers lowers glutathione levels because the glutathione of one cell has to be divided in two when the cell divides. That also lowers glutathione levels as well.

    I tried taking potassium and I didn't notice any benefit, even at 1500-2,000mg a day, so I stopped it. The last time I had my potassium levels checked they were high normal, so that could be why I didn't need it. Sorry about the novel.:) Hope this helps. Jim
    Last edited: May 21, 2015
  7. deepak

    deepak Member

    Thanks a lot Jim for the "novel" - it was an interesting read :)

    I am planning to give this supplement a shot and see - though my aches and pains are much better, i surely need help with energy and mood.

    Will keep you posted.

  8. ljimbo42

    ljimbo42 Active Member

    Hi Deepak- I mentioned niacin in an earlier post. You might want to keep that on hand for over methylation symptoms like anxiety, feeling very energetic and restless- it works great for those symptoms. I look forward to hearing how you do, best of luck! Jim
  9. Alyssa-Admin

    Alyssa-Admin Active Member

    All very for sharing your experinces @ljimbo42 It's reasons like this where forums are so amazing... I just bought a product from ProHealth for methylation, I will send you the link (if that is ok) to see what you think and if niacin or anything else is needed. I am going through a lot of circulation issues at the moment...and I am hoping that methylation together with a good diet will make a difference for me as well. A.
  10. ljimbo42

    ljimbo42 Active Member

    Hello @Alyssa-Admin - What is the product that you bought for methylation? You can post the link if you want or just the name of the product and I can find it in a flash. After all the internet searching I've done for cfs/fm, I have a first degree black belt in internet searches.:) Jim
  11. Alyssa-Admin

    Alyssa-Admin Active Member

    Now i can't remember what I ordered!
    Hi there...found it...Methylation Complete 120tab Nuerobiologix

    This is all new to me (and I should have probably asked for your advice first sir!). I am actually starting to freak out that I am having not only circulation problems but bruising that the doctor and hematology can't explain and have passed it off as 'meds'. So I called the pharmacist today, not being happy with the 'it's your meds' answer...what meds?! The pharmacist looked through everything and said he didn't see anything standing out as causing this.

    When I stand it feels like the tops of my feet are being bruised. Bottom line is I am concerned there is a very large and concerning heart issue... I just don't feel 'right'.

    I have sent a letter to my GP (who is fabulous and has even come to our home a few times to see me and does appointments over the phone with me), with pictures, I used the FibroMapp app and provided a full report from that. But, well. I am scared. I need to lose a lot of weight and that I know is putting added stress on everything in my body.

    On another (but same!) note...I have ordered some Arjuna Terminalia as it seems to be an interesting Ayurvedic herb used to help heart conditions and circulation problems. I read a review on Amazon about a guy who was originally from India and his family always used this...long story shortened (a bit) he was told he needed to have a stent put in...he started taking this...they opened him up and guess what? Yep...they couldn't find an issue!!! :)
  12. ljimbo42

    ljimbo42 Active Member

    Hi @Alyssa-Admin - I can't be certain as to what is causing you're bruising problems. My best guess would be that you're capillaries are very fragile and break easily, and that is probably caused by oxidative stress weakening them.

    Oxidative stress is known to be a big part of cfs/fm. I believe the oxidative stress is caused by low glutathione, the bodies master antioxidant. Improving methylation will increase glutathione and help reduce the oxidative stress. There are a couple other supplements that are very good for boosting glutathione, but I won't mention here to keep this post as simple as possible.

    I took a look at the ingredients in "Methylation Complete" and they are just what you need to start. I have one big concern though and that is the amount of methylafolate per tablet is very high (3,200mcg) and could create huge detox symptoms.

    One thing you could do if you don't want to return them, is crush a pill up, wet the tip of you're finger, dip it in the powder and put it on you're tongue. I would do that every 2-3 days and see how you feel, then slowly go up as you are able every 2-3 days. That worked very well for me.

    It is a really good idea to keep some slow release niacin on hand for overmethylation symptoms like, high anxiety, restlessness, feeling hyper etc. The reason for the slow release niacin is that it prevents what's called a niacin flush, which is harmless and goes away in 30-45 minutes, but can be very uncomfortable.

    The smallest dosage I could find of the slow release form is 250 mg tablets. I cut them into quarters and take one quarter every 30-45 minutes until the symptoms subside. It is recommended to take around 50 mg every 30-45 minutes and a quarter of a 250mg tablet is 62.5 mg.

    I am not familiar with Arjuna Terminalia but here is a link to extensive information about it- arjuna/

    Last edited: May 28, 2015
  13. Alyssa-Admin

    Alyssa-Admin Active Member

    Thanks Jim - I guess the next thing I need to get is niacin! (This is just like taking meds where there is the medication itself and several other meds to counteract all the side effects! Right - I am going on to Amazon now to have a wee looksee.

    I wound up in the hospital on Thursday due to my GP being really concerned about me sneezing and having bizarre neurological experiences right afterwards...So, bloods and urine samples were taken in order to get me through 'the back door' into the hospital where if there was a concern it could be addressed (vs waiting 6 months for an appointment!). Bottom line is that all bloods and urine checked out fine. The neuro couldn't quite explain the bruising (but you did @ljimbo42 !) They just passed it up to medication issues...(but when I phoned the chemist to ask if this might be caused by meds, they had a look at what I was taking and was informed that the meds are not causing any issues).

    Just to confirm Jim, so are you saying that in regards to the methylation complete capsules to start slowly and work my way up? Take one (sublingual) every couple of days (vs 2x a day as it stated on the pack!)

    I just ordered some B3, thank you for mentioning this Jim. I remember going through gabapentin withdrawal and I felt like my body was attempting to crawl out of it's skin!!! not a nice feeling!!! Once again, thank you for your wise words and knowledgeable insight ...and sharing what you have learned and your experiences is fantastic. Thank you for continuing to be such a great forum member! a.x
  14. ljimbo42

    ljimbo42 Active Member

    Hi @Alyssa-Admin - I'm glad to hear you checked okay at the hospital.:) The dosage of methylfolate is very high in the "methylation complete" tablets, it is 3.2 mg or 3,200 mcg. I think even 1/4 tablet every 2-3 days would be too much to start. I started at 100 mcg, and there is 32 doses at 100 mcg each in every tablet of methylation complete. Although the higher dose will probably come in handy as you are better able to tolerate the methylfolate

    The methylfolate can cause a worsening of symptoms because it speeds up detoxification. If you want to use the methylation complete anyway, I would crush up a pill, wet my finger, dip it in the powder and put what is on my finger on my tongue. Do that every 2-3 days and go up on the dose according to how you feel. The niacin works great for overmethylation symptoms.

    Just make sure it's nicotonic acid (niacin, not niacinamide) and that it is slow release so you don't get a niacin flush. The smallest dosage I could find of the slow release form is 250 mg tablets. I cut them into quarters and take one quarter every 30-45 minutes until the symptoms subside. It is recommended to take around 50 mg every 30-45 minutes and a quarter of a 250mg tablet is 62.5 mg, so it works great. Does this make sense? Jim
  15. Alyssa-Admin

    Alyssa-Admin Active Member

    @ljimbo42 thanks so much for taking the time to break this down for me! So taking 2 methyl meds a day seems a recipe for disaster! Thanks for your assistance.

    A. X
  16. ljimbo42

    ljimbo42 Active Member

    @Alyssa-Admin - You are very welcome-let me know how it goes for you.......... Jim