Seriphos Experience?

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by Elisa, Nov 7, 2008.

  1. Elisa

    Elisa Member

    I have been reading a book - "Chronic Fatigue Unmasked 2000" By Dr. G. E. Poesnecker. His theory, and the basis of his in-treatment center in PA, is that CFS is a stage of adrenal exhaustion. One of the pillars of his treatment is Seriphos - specifically phosphorylated serine ethanolamine. His claim is that it can calm the HPA axis down - to help sleep and adrenal function.

    I have read that Seriphos can be calming (for people with CFS and HPA axis problems) and really help insomnia...

    If CFS is partly an adrenal issue - is Seriphos okay to take? Is there any downsides to taking it?

    I have tried melatonin - the tinest amount and it can help some nites and others I wake up very sick and weak - not sure why. I read it may effect DHEA and thus make exhaustion worse. to hear what you all think of Seriphos? Experiences?

    God Bless,

  2. spacee

    spacee Member

    I am on my first bottle of Seriphos. I don't have any downsides whatsoever but I can't tell that it is doing much either. My problem may be that my pituitary isn't right and then the adrenals don't function right because of it. But his claim that the Seriphos works on the HPA, then the pituitary should be helped also.

    I think he also recommended Isocort. I tried to buy some of that from but was emailed that it wasn't available.

    Basically, for me, I cannot tell that it is helping....yet. Might need to take it longer.

    Oh, yes, one of my problems is daytime sleeping. Whew, I can't stay awake but I sleep at night cause I take klonopin and xanax for my skin pain problem. So insomnia is definitely not my problem.

    Sorry, not more help...

  3. ulala

    ulala New Member

    of Seriphos and actually prefer phosphatidyl serube. The brand I have now is Source Naturals. Seems to help with sleep and I think it helps regulate the body from putting out too much cortisol during stress. Taking holy basil with it helps me the most.

    Spacee I also have a pituitary problem. I just went to a pituitary specialist yesterday. He did some lab tests and I'll see him next week. I know he tested my IgF (human growth hormone levels) which I know are low. He also tested prolactin levels and testosterone. I know my testosterone levels are low. I've taken testosterone before and it helped me. The only problem is that the doctors that prescribe it around here don't take insurance. I asked him about it and he said that they're not sure if it's safe to give women testosterone. I know insurance won't pay for testosterone replacement for women. What kind of skin pain do you have? I know that withdrawal from klonopin and xanax cause major skin pain and burning.
  4. Juloo

    Juloo Member

    It was Dr. Poesnecker who put me on Seriphos several years ago. At the time, my cortisol was out of control, and the Seriphos calmed it down considerably. At the time that I needed it, Seriphos was one of the best treatments that I was given.

    Are you under the care of a naturopath who understands why/when Seriphos should be used? I had taken the Adrenal Stress Index (ASI) test, and I was in 'stage 4', and Seriphos was part of Doc's protocol for that stage -- different stages require different treatments. Do you know where you are in that process?

    I know that there are other people here who have visited Clymer Healing in Quakertown -- perhaps they will weigh in as well.

    Due to how high my cortisol was above normal, I was up to 12 capsules a day before it started coming down.
  5. spacee

    spacee Member

    Thanks for starting this thread...I am learning some things from it.

    I have low cortisol. I feel way too calm. Lethargic is a better word.

    Also, have been thinking about the Human Growth Factors. Will add to my list to be tested. Until I get to the Endo, I have to come up with the tests for my doc to do :-(. I think his brain retired a few years ago.

    Interesting that a higher amount may be needed or the other kind.

    Thanks for the good info.


    PS. Down here I know of a GYN who prescribes testosterone for libido in post hysteretomy women. Interesting that some insurances won't cover it.

    PSS. I got the burning skin pain from DMSO treatments(mixed with something else) to my bladder many years ago. I have weaned totally off of the Klonopin and xanax for 6 weeks with no pain. It was great. But the pain all came back when I resumed exercising.
    [This Message was Edited on 11/08/2008]
  6. Juloo

    Juloo Member

    If you already have low cortisol, Seriphos may not be right for you -- not that it would hurt you, but just because your body may already be in the stage that Seriphos would nudge you toward.

    I think of Seriphos more for the person who is exhausted but can't 'turn it off'. Seriphos (for me) turned off the racing motor feeling. In fact, it makes you a bit lethargic.

    Even more helpful to me than his 'Unmasked' book is a 3-ring binder that Clymer used to have its patients read -- called 'Mastering Your Life: A Handbook for Every Patient Who Has Chronic Fatigue Syndrome or Allied Conditions". It's possible that the clinic still offers it for sale.

    One of the area of the book goes through each of the seven stages of adrenal fatigue on the ASI, the symptoms of each, and a basic outline of how the clinic treats that stage.

    When Dr. Poesnecker died, he left a naturopath in place that he had trained -- Dr. Neville. I haven't been up to Quakertown in a few years, but he is probably still there.
  7. Elisa

    Elisa Member


    Thank all so much for the great info...I think this is a really important area to research. If CFS has a component of adrenal fatigue it sure is important to address.

    So in sum seriphos should be taken (1) after adrenal stress index (ASI) testing (saliva) by Diagnostics Corp (WI) and (2) seriphos is used when cortisol is too high (compared to normal). If cortisol is too high we don't sleep. If cortisol is too low I guess licorice is used...

    I understand Holy Basil is also used to normalize cortisol - so interesting...

    Hi Spacee!!!! You and I seem to be exploring similar areas - so great to hear from you and for all your support!!!! I have burning skin pain too - docs call it some type of neuropathy - but I think sometimes it is a gluten slip-up (I have Celiac) or food allergy related (i.e., leaky gut). Other docs feel it is from brain injury. It is miserable like a sunburn when it comes on. Anyway it would be great to solve these issues. We should be renamed a CFS think tank.

    Hi Ulala - I wonder if I have a pituitary issue - my TSH was .10 in April - and I understand that comes from the pituitary command.

    Juluu - It's great that you have experienced the Clymer Center - did it help? Sounds very promising - especially the patient binder that outlines the stages and treatment protocols.

    Caldonia - you are such a great support and thank you for reporting your experince!!!

    This has been a really hard road for me too lately - as you all know - weakness, fever, sleeping all th time - or not sleeping at night (normal hours) I fall asleep around 4 AM or later.

    Anyway thank so so much for all your help - you all are great!

    God Bless,

    [This Message was Edited on 11/08/2008]
    [This Message was Edited on 11/08/2008]
  8. simonedb

    simonedb Member

    i tried phosphatidyl choline and serine briefly this summer in diminshing amounts due to intolerance and gave it up. like a lot of other stuff it seemed promising at first, like one or two better feeling days then i got too sedated on it, during day couldnt get alert and low energy.
    maybe i am in that phase where its contraindicated. i do have anxiety but also lethargy a lot.
    what do they recommend when youre past the seriphos stage?
    whats the best test to dx where yer at with all that?
  9. Elisa

    Elisa Member

    If I am seeing this right - the goal is to mimic a normal cortisol curve.

    So if cortisol is elevated only at night (which it should not be and thus is say an abberation of CFS) - Seriphos is taken then. Likewise, if cortisol is low during the day - it would not be wise to take it...

    Nudging things in the right direction...

    Is this right?

    [This Message was Edited on 11/08/2008]
    [This Message was Edited on 11/08/2008]
  10. Juloo

    Juloo Member

    In answer to your last question, I guess I would answer a qualified 'yes'.

    It's been a while now, but you have the main idea for Seriphos in the Clymer treatment. If I'm remembering correctly, Doc believed that it was important to turn off the excess production of cortisol (in certain stages) for more than one reason. First, for the relief from the out-of-control feeling. Also, though, he believed that the overproduction would eventually deplete the body of cortisol AND the building blocks (DHEA).

    So treatment would not just address the reasons for Seriphos, but also supplemental support for building DHEA (depending upon the sex of the patient), and supporting morning low cortisol by licorice supplement. The idea was to relieve the body of having to expend energy to produce this itself so that the adrenals could rest. There were other adrenal supplements as well.

    Another post had the question whether or not Clymer Healing Center helped. I will say that I had done quite a bit of research on my own before finding Clymer. I visited their center for a week in the fall for three years in a row. In between, I consulted by phone probably every three months. They were the very first people who believed me unconditionally, and for that alone, I'm very grateful. Also, when I was there, I shared a house with other women who were up for treatment, and I can say that I learned a great deal from them as well. Clymer's therapies were all gentle, and a number would be considered quite 'alternative' when it went beyond the supplements. They opened my eyes to a much wider range of help than I'd considered before that time.

    I also have never forgotten Doc's main edict was to begin only one new treatment at a time -- giving my body time to adjust to each new thing. It has never served me wrong to be conservative in this way.

    I stopped going to Clymer mainly because of distance. When one of the associates there moved to Florida, I began to see him instead. A couple of years later, I heard about the FFC centers and wanted to be fully tested for a wider range of things, so I took what I already knew (hormone deficiencies, adrenal weakness, etc., etc.) and incorporated the FFC findings between the location in Atlanta and working with a nurse practitioner who'd had Lyme and was close to my home.

    I think very fondly back on Doc (he was a real searcher in terms of chronic fatigue treatments, and very, very interesting to talk to) and also on everyone else that I met there. I sure wish I lived closer to them all!

    [This Message was Edited on 11/08/2008]
  11. spacee

    spacee Member

    So, perhaps what you are describing that you take the Seriphos for is high cortisol at night.

    I am going to get mine tested this week. The odd thing is that I can't be awake at 8am AND 4pm. I have to be asleep one of those times. So my brother suggested that I drive over to the clinic, park in the parking lot (it is a safe place with lots of trees) and sleep in my car until 4 pm. So that is what I will do. I have done that before when waiting on a kid to be finished with a practice.

    Back to topic. I have above normal levels of norephrine...which is the fight or flight "hormone". Odd that that isn't giving me more of a "wired" feeling.

    Ok, I won't take the Seriphose and see if I feel different.

    Thanks for the info!

  12. mbofov

    mbofov Active Member

    My cortisol was tested by Clymer about 5 years ago, and it was too high at night and also during the day too. They gave me Seriphos and told me to take it at night. Well, it made me feel bad and odd, I don't know how to desribe it, when I took it at night.

    So then I tried it in the morning, and it was great - no bad side effects, and I felt calmer almost immediately. I also started sleeping better. I read that to mimic the natural cortisol curve, Seriphos should be taken in the morning, even if the cortisol is too high at night.

    It took a little trial and error to get the dose right, but ended up with 8 capsules a day, rather a lot (in divided doses in the morning). After about 6 months I noticed I had unusual fatigue and figured out my cortisol levels were lower so I didn't need as much Seriphos and gradually cut back. I've been on and off it since, presently am off it. But in times of high stress I sometimes need to take 1 or 2 a day.

    It is great stuff if you need it.

  13. spacee

    spacee Member

    any ideas on what to take for low cortisol besides cortef? Or experiences with cortef.

  14. CFS1992

    CFS1992 New Member

    I did phone consultation with Dr. Poesnecker back in 2000 when he had just finished writing "Chronic Fatigue Unmasked 2000." Unfortunately, the doc has since passed on. He was working at the Clymer Center at the time, and I couldn't get to PA where they were located, so he did the phone consults. He asked everyone to read his book so they could understand CFS first. I did take the licorice product, mixed in milk, each morning before breakfast, and it was supposed to help increase my cortisol levels which were very low in the morning through 4 p.m. hours. Dr. P also had me taking bovine adrenal drops, and those were supposed to take over so my own adrenals could rest a bit. I discontinued them, however, when I was very short of breath, and it sort of scared me. I am still searching for the answers for problems regarding low cortisol and underactive thyroid. The med I take through my family doc just doesn't seem to help the thyroid at all. I have found a new naturopath, and hope to be getting some new supplements soon.

    My naturopath says that it is safe to take up to 20mg of melatonin per day, so at bedtime, I am now taking 10 mg rather than the 3mg that you buy at the drugstore. That, along with a "natural xanax" like GABA and only half of my usual dose of xanax is helping me to get to sleep and stay asleep, plus I don't feel as groggy in the mornings.

    Best wishes everyone
  15. Elisa

    Elisa Member

    Hi All,

    I am reading Dr Conley's book "America Exhausted" and he speaks to this issue and says that people with CFS have high cortisol at night and it peaks at 11 PM - so he suggests you go to bed before that time or it would be a long while to get to sleep. I have trouble getting to sleep so he's right on target with me...

    Hi Spacee - I think the licorice is for low cortisol...

    However, Mary made some great points maybe morning dosing helps even things out during the day.

    Also I wonder if light therapy could help?

    Another tough day here - went to get my hair cut (with helper) and it was such a difficult task - like I was on a drug trip or something - just aweful - my brain and body is having a most difficult time - just overwhelm and light-sensitivity - almost feels like that vulnerable feeling when you just wake up from deep sleep - not you all get that?

    God Bless,

  16. Juloo

    Juloo Member

    Putting this to the top so it can be seen by Jenbird!

    [This Message was Edited on 11/15/2008]
  17. wendyo

    wendyo New Member

    so spacee others
    what is the update for people dealing with adrenals? what is helping/hurting etc?
  18. Dear Juloo (or whoever would like to comment!)
    Do you know the ranges of salivary cortisol in each stage? Did the Dr. check you every 4 mos. or so to determine if you needed more Seriphos to bring your cortisol down? You said he got you up to 12 before you started to come down. If you woke in the middle of the night & couldn't get back to sleep, do you recommend taking more Seriphos then?
    Thanks, Reni
    [This Message was Edited on 07/14/2010]