sleep meds and stage 3/4 sleep

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by deliarose, Oct 29, 2006.

  1. deliarose

    deliarose New Member

    hi
    is anyone getting stage 3 or 4 sleep on any sleep meds and/or with cpap machines?
    tnx
    delia
  2. Daisys

    Daisys Member

    I get deep wave sleep with xyrem. I wake up refreshed, am alert all day, and am healing.

    Since starting on xyrem, I have twice used something other than xyrem for sleep (ambien and trazodone) and both times the next day I've been sore, buzzy headed with sleep waves, and just generally not felt well. I go back on xyrem and feel great the next day. This is why I highly recommend it.

    (Later)I'm remembering now, Delia, you did try xyrem. I'm sorry it didn't work out for you. Maybe a combination would--I took ambien, trazodone, and flexeril for awhile. They worked at first but quickly lost their effect for me.
    [This Message was Edited on 10/31/2006]
  3. lovethesun

    lovethesun New Member

    I hate the hypnotized feel of ambien
  4. deliarose

    deliarose New Member

  5. AquariusGirl

    AquariusGirl New Member

    I woke up more tired the next day. I currently take Rest and Restore from the FFC--has melatonin in it. Still wake up tired though. Sleep study said I don't get into Stage 3/4 sleep. Oh well.
  6. ladykew

    ladykew New Member

    Ambien is what I am used to taking at home, and the sleep study recommended it. I don't know what level sleep I reached, but it couldn't have been too deep because I woke up every 3 minutes. Yep...Obstructive Sleep Apnea.

    I've been up now for 34 hours and I'm dead tired and can't sleep.

    What stage sleep is the restorative sleep? Is it stage 4? Is that when you dream?

    I know little about sleep....only that I get little.

    Thanks,
    Lew
  7. Summit

    Summit New Member

    you dream during REM (rapid eye movement) sleep. I dont' know what stage it is. But, it is important to get rem sleep, or you are not getting the benefits of sleep. I would talk to your doc about getting something to help you sleep. Lack of sleep will Not help your health, and in fact some beleive Lack of sleep is what leads to Fm. I take a half Lorazapam at night. It relaxes me, and most nights I get to sleep. Trazadone gave me a bad reaction.....felt like I was having a heart attack (but my friend takes it and has good success with it) Good luck to you I hope you get some much needed ZZZZ's
  8. sweetpea48

    sweetpea48 New Member

    I just read a little about this drug online, and it says you have to get it from a special program, that you can't get it at regular pharmacies. Interesting! How hard is it to get this prescribed?
  9. Summit

    Summit New Member

    please don't say "oh well" about not getting a rested sleep. it is soo important to get proper sleep. Do some research on the negatives that no sleep lead to. Some think that fibro is caused by unhealthy sleep, among other sicknesses. You need to address the problem of no sleep with your doctor. Best of luck to you
  10. Juloo

    Juloo Member

    First you have to find a doctor that has been authorized to prescribe it. Then you have to find out if your insurance will cover it. If it doesn't, it's a huge payment, especially if you need more than the 'normal' amount.

    As for REM and Deep Sleep (3/4). Unfortunately, getting one does not mean that you automatically are getting the other. In BOTH my sleep studies, I got fewer than 2-percent 3/4 combined (in the second study, I didn't get any 4 at all, in the first, barely a minute or two, if that). But I got the normal amount of REM for my age group in both studies. So the sleep doctor said I had 'normal' sleep, merely because I was getting REM. Then he didn't help me at all, because he didn't think I needed any kind of help.

    Okay -- where's that 'absolutely idiotic things your "doctor" said to you' thread....
  11. onedaymagpie

    onedaymagpie New Member

    Sleep - such a tough one. Teitelbaum really stresses the importance of getting 7-8 hours every night and recommends that a variety of supps and/or meds be used until this is obtained without any hangover effect. Yeah, right.

    Anyway, here is an interesting summary on the stage of sleep . . .

    --------------------------------------------



    Stages of sleep
    Different parts of your night's sleep have different characteristics, which have lead researchers to suggest four stages. The most important source of information about the stages is the EEG (electroencephalogram). Several electrodes (small metal discs) are pasted to your scalp and the tiny electrical rhythms of resting neurons are recorded, traditionally on moving sheets of paper. Nowadays, of course, we use computers.

    When you are awake and busy (at least mentally), these "brain waves" are desynchronized, which means that they don't show a clear rhythm. They are recorded as small, rapid, and very irregular marks on the EEG paper.

    Underlying the jagged marks, though, is a base rhythm called beta waves, which are from 13 to 17 cycles per second (cps). Sometimes, when we are very alert yet momentarily not thinking about anything in particular, these waves become synchronized, and you can see the beta wave pattern on the EEG.

    When you begin to relax and empty your mind, you begin to generate alpha waves, which are from 8 to 12 cps. This is usually a very pleasant state to be in, so much so that some people have even promoted the "alpha state" as something akin to meditation.

    When you enter into stage one sleep, the waves begin to slow down, and become theta waves (4 to 7 cps). In addition, we enter into a state of flaccid paralysis of the large muscles, which means that your muscles become very relaxed and no longer respond to motor messages from the brain. Sometimes, as we move into this paralysis, our body responds as if we were falling, and we have a sudden jerk called myoclonus.

    After a while, we go into stage two. The EEG shows more and more slow theta waves. In addition, we occasionally see a strange wave pattern called a sleep spindle, which consists of very rapid, 15 cps, bursts of activity.

    After this, we enter into stage three. Now we see the very slow delta waves, which are 3 cps and slower.

    And finally, we enter stage four, the deepest sleep. Now the EEG shows more than 50% delta waves. Stage four is where we are most likely to find night terrors and sleep walking. Night terrors are periods of extreme emotional arousal rarely accompanied by imagery (as in dreams and nightmares). Sleep walking is where a person gets out of bed and wanders about, sometimes doing routine activities such as getting dressed. This is common among children, and parents occasionally find their kids standing at the bus stop in their pajamas. Obviously, there is no paralysis in stage four! Usually, you don't need it.

    After stage four, you begin to go back up the stages, until you reach stage one again. This is sometimes called stage one emergent, and it has one particularly impressive quality: Dreams. Dreams are accompanied by movement of the eyes, which can also be recorded with the EEG machine. Because of this, stage one emergent is also called REM sleep (for "rapid eye movement"). Here you can see the purpose of the flaccid paralysis mentioned earlier: If we weren't paralyzed we would likely act out our dreams!

    Unfortunately for some people, the small muscles are not paralyzed -- so it is stage one emergent where we see sleep talking. Sometimes, you can actually engage someone in a small conversation in this stage! It is also interesting that the fingers are not paralyzed, and so we can also see deaf people signing in their sleep.

    In an average night, you may go through about four or five cycles of stages, each cycle taking about 90 minutes. You usually go less deep each cycle, so that most of your deep, stage four, sleep occurs in the first half of the night. REM or dream sleep is about 20% of your total sleep, in four or five sessions. Unless you actually wake up, though, you rarely remember the first three or four dream sessions.
  12. LonelyHearts

    LonelyHearts New Member