So Sick I Would Have To Get Better Before I Could Die

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by crickett, Nov 6, 2002.

  1. crickett

    crickett New Member

    I know we are more sensitve to pain and because of the immune system are likely to get sicker, but.. I have been taking Vitamin , Co-Q10 and Echinesia to try and ward off this bug, but it finally got me. The grandkids that we have to take care of when they are sick have been sick on and off for about 2 months now.
    It hit me last Thursday. It just seemed like a head cold but got worse and worse. Fever, chills, BAD headache, sore glands and throat and a lot of congestions, and FATIGUE. I slept 12 hours Thurs night, napped about 4-1/2 hours Friday and slept 13 hours Friday night and still felt exhausted. I am finally feeling a little better and at least (as my husband said) one foot out of the grave.
    The main reason I was posting this is I got sick in the same way 5 times last year in 7 months.
    The doctor usually will prescribe something for congestion and antibiotics if he feels I need it. In the past, I have taken the same drug for congestion. Humibid.(guaefenisin) Anyway.. getting to the point.. When I take the guaefenesin when I'm SICK, I don't have as much Fibro pain. Although, I have tried a different type of guaefenisin when I'm well, (HA-HA) without the same good effect. Is it the form of it? Or is it the antibiotic? Or the combo??
    Any idea's??
    Love.
    Crickett
  2. crickett

    crickett New Member

    I know we are more sensitve to pain and because of the immune system are likely to get sicker, but.. I have been taking Vitamin , Co-Q10 and Echinesia to try and ward off this bug, but it finally got me. The grandkids that we have to take care of when they are sick have been sick on and off for about 2 months now.
    It hit me last Thursday. It just seemed like a head cold but got worse and worse. Fever, chills, BAD headache, sore glands and throat and a lot of congestions, and FATIGUE. I slept 12 hours Thurs night, napped about 4-1/2 hours Friday and slept 13 hours Friday night and still felt exhausted. I am finally feeling a little better and at least (as my husband said) one foot out of the grave.
    The main reason I was posting this is I got sick in the same way 5 times last year in 7 months.
    The doctor usually will prescribe something for congestion and antibiotics if he feels I need it. In the past, I have taken the same drug for congestion. Humibid.(guaefenisin) Anyway.. getting to the point.. When I take the guaefenesin when I'm SICK, I don't have as much Fibro pain. Although, I have tried a different type of guaefenisin when I'm well, (HA-HA) without the same good effect. Is it the form of it? Or is it the antibiotic? Or the combo??
    Any idea's??
    Love.
    Crickett
  3. JP

    JP New Member

    So sorry to hear you are sick...I have the bug too. I would give anything for that kind of sleep. I have insomnia when I get sick...makes everything worse and the additional pain keeps me awake...

    sleep some for me too...get well quickly, jan
  4. Shirl

    Shirl New Member

    You need to ask Mikie about the Guaifenisin, she is on this treatment for quite some time now.

    She is here mostly in the Mornings, I am the 'NightHawk'.

    I can give you the name of the book concerning the Guri Treatment thought, its; 'What your Doctor may NOT tell you about FIBROMYALGIA' By; 'R. Paul St. Amand, M.D. and 'Claudia Craig Marek'.

    Below is an article by Devin Starlanyl on the Guri Treatment, you can get some insight from this.

    Also if you go the the very top of the left hand side of this page where it says; 'Home', click here, and it will bring you to the Home page, on the right side of the Home page, there is a box, type in the word 'Guaifenesin' and it will bring up a whole bunch of articles by different doctors on this subject.

    HOpe this helps you.

    I had to stay away from children, I was getting sick all the time. Its sad, but the poor darlings pick up all this stuff at school and the nurseries they are in. I just couldn't handle being sick anymore with the flu viruses.

    I even ask my children if they are the children are sick before I go visit, or if they want to come here, its the only thing I can do anymore.

    It seems when we get something its ten times worst than normal people.

    Take care, and hope you are feeling better soon.

    Shalom, Shirl

    ____________________________________________________________


    Diminishing Fibromyalgia Symptoms with Guaifenesin
    12-19-2001


    From “Fibromyalgia and Chronic Myofascial Pain: A Survival Manual,” by Starlanyl and Copeland, 2000. Reprinted with permission from the author.

    Excess calcium and inorganic phosphate can cause mitochondrial hyperpermeability.(1) This will allow excess fluids, ions and other substances into the mitochondria that don’t belong there, producing swelling and interfering with normal function. This may be part of what happens in fibromyalgia (FM).

    Dr. R. Paul St. Amand believes FM is caused by an abnormality in phosphate excretion, which may be due to a genetic defect. Retention of phosphates eventually interferes with energy production in the affected cells.

    One study (2) found a 20 percent reduction in the level of ATP in muscle biopsies taken from people with FM. Excess inorganic phosphate in the mitochondria, your energy-generating cells, slows formation of ATP. Muscle pain after exercise is also linked with an increase in inorganic phosphate.(3)

    Calcium is the main buffer for phosphate. A buffer is a substance that diminishes a pH change that would otherwise take place when acid is added. In this case, the calcium ions, which are alkaline in nature, balance the phosphate ions, which are acid in nature.

    Guaifenesin is usually an ingredient in cold preparations. In its original form, as a tree bark extract called guaiacum, it was used to treat rheumatism in the year 1530. In the new PDR for Herbal Medicines(4) guaiacum officinale is again indicated for rheumatism. Over twenty years ago it was synthesized, named Guaifenesin, and pressed into tablets.

    Guaifenesin is totally absorbed by the intestinal tract within two hours after taking it.

    Using Guaifenesin therapy, Dr. St. Amand found a 60 percent increase in phosphate excretion and a 30 percent increase in oxalate in his patients’ urine. I believe that these phosphoric and oxalic acids (also excreted in sweat) carry with them other excess acids that may be significant. We don’t know.

    About 20 percent of Dr. St. Amand’s patients go through FM reversal relatively quickly, taking 300 mg of Guaifenesin twice a day. St. Amand believes that FM develops in a cyclical process. At first, as FM develops, there are times when we experience symptoms interspersed with periods when we feel fine. Then, the periods without symptoms become shorter, the symptomatic episodes become more frequent, and the symptoms worsen. This is what St. Amand calls Acycling. He believes that Guaifenesin therapy causes a reversal of this process.

    Your most recent symptoms will fade first. When enough of these substances are eliminated, every once in a while you will have a period where your symptoms ease. You may then begin to experience whole days where you feel well. It is important not to overdo on these days. Your body is struggling to regain balance. Don’t overtax it. When you get to the point where there are clusters of good days, the contrast can be remarkable. Knowing what is happening helps you to deal with the reversal symptoms. The bad days are still bad, but you know why, and you know you are on a path to better health.

    If the cyclic process described below hasn't begun after two weeks, patients are raised to 600 mg twice a day. Seventy percent of all patients experience FM reversal at that dose. Another 20 percent of his patients need 1800 mg a day. The final 10 percent require 2400 mg or more per day.

    The Cycling Process

    The body works hard to process chemical toxins and excess materials so that they can be excreted. When the first cycle begins, as stored toxins and excess phosphates start releasing, there is usually a period of flu-like fatigue. For the first few months of Guaifenesin therapy, you can expect to spit out a lot of mucus that has been clogging your airways. Headaches are very common during this process. You may have other symptoms, including strong smelling perspiration and urine and burning on urination. Your urine may become very dark. Also, the crease between your buttocks and the perineal area may become sore and need protective cream.

    It is important to follow the Guaifenesin protocol. If severe and unusual side effects appear after beginning Guaifenesin therapy, discontinue use at once and check with your doctor. You may need to go on the hypoglycemia diet for a while, or decrease your exposure to toxic chemicals. Something else may be happening. Your liver may not be able to handle the wastes and chemical toxic by-products that are coming out, for example. You may decide to resume Guaifenesin therapy at a later time. Do so very slowly, starting with 100 mg a day and working up in increments of 100 mg at a time.

    For a list of products with salicylates, consult Dr. St. Amand’s book or the Guaifenesin Internet Support Group. Do not change your dosage of Guaifenesin or any other medication without checking it with your doctor. Keep track of what happens. Start by taking 300 mg of Guaifenesin twice a day. Take 300 mg twice a day for one week. If your symptoms become distinctly worse, you have found the dosage right for you. The symptoms in reversal are not side effects of taking Guaifenesin. They are from the chemical toxins and wastes being released by the Guaifenesin, and are good signs, although they don’t feel like it at the time. Do not use any medications or herbal products containing salicylates. They can block the action of Guaifenesin.

    Map your areas of pain and symptoms carefully before you start therapy. I have seen some people start gentle Guaifenesin therapy on 200 mg a day. The correct dosage varies from patient to patient. If, after one week, no obvious change occurs, increase the dose to 600 mg twice a day for about a month. Check your initial map, and draw a new one periodically, saving them as a record of your treatment.

    Each person seems to have a different sensitivity to the Guaifenesin blocking effect of certain salicylates. If you've found your proper dosage and suddenly the cycling stops and your symptoms worsen, check out secondary sources such as camphor, almond oil, coconut oil, lauric acid, and so forth. This has happened to me and to others, and we've always been able to track down the offending salicylate and eliminate it, with a subsequent return to improvement. These setbacks and subsequent resolutions are yet another indication to me that Guaifenesin is doing something important.

    We don’t know for sure why Guaifenesin works in so many people with FM. It could even be that it is affecting a common perpetuating factor, such as insulin resistance or cellular pH. We just don’t know. I see it working, Dr. St. Amand sees it working, and countless other doctors have seen it working. Only phosphate is known to decrease ATP formation when it accumulates in the mitochondrial matrix. ATP is essential to almost all cellular functions.

    Guaifenesin therapy for FM is not simple. Doctors can’t just prescribe a standard dose and expect to see symptom remission. Dr. St. Amand begins by taking a careful medical history of the patient. He examines the patient’s body for swollen areas, which he maps. As patients progress, the symptoms tend to disappear in the reverse order in which they first appeared. For the reversal to become evident in patients with reactive hypoglycemia, they must be on a balanced diet. This means no excess carbohydrates. I have found that the Sears’ Zone-type diet works well, although it must be tailored to individual needs. For many people, Guaifenesin therapy seems to result in remission of symptoms. There may be coexisting conditions, like myofascial TrPs, that also need attention, and you may have other perpetuating factors that must be identified and addressed.

    The only double-blind study on FM Guaifenesin therapy was done at the University of Oregon.(5) This study of twenty women showed Guaifenesin equal to placebo. The study was flawed, through no fault of the researchers, because of the following reasons:

    1. The study was started before we knew the signs of reversal are not obvious if uncontrolled reactive hypoglycemia is present. At that time, no one knew how common reactive hypoglycemia/ insulin resistance was.

    2. All the patients in the study were given 600 mg of Guaifenesin twice a day. Only about 50 percent of patients respond at this dosage; and even in these patients, the reversal won’t be evident if they have reactive hypoglycemia and are eating excess carbohydrates. The dosage must be individually tailored.

    3. Dr. St. Amand did not know about the blockage of Guaifenesin by some salicylate-containing herbs until September 1995. The study ended in June 1995. Each person seems to have different sensitivity to various products.

    4. Some people say Dr. St. Amand's patients feel better because he’s charismatic. He is. I love the guy. He is charming and has a superb wit. But how can these positive attributes cause me to have dark, smelly, acidic urine that cleans the iron stains from my toilet bowl? Toilet bowls do not respond to the placebo effect.

    There is another study currently underway on Guaifenesin using the exact same flawed protocols that were used in the previous study, in spite of St. Amand’s explanations on the parameter requirements. Dr. St. Amand contacted the head of the study, offering to fly there at his own expense, but his letters were ignored.

    Dr. St. Amand and I agree to disagree on some issues. Respectful controversy is healthy. We both believe that phosphate retention is a common perpetuating factor of FM, and that Guaifenesin is not a cure for FM. Please understand that symptom reversal is not the same as a cure. Right now, there is no cure for FM. With Guaifenesin therapy, some patients have been able to get rid of many or all of their symptoms, or at least ease them considerably. They still have FM. If they don’t keep their perpetuating factors (overwork, poor diet, lack of sleep) under control, the symptoms will return. Taking Guaifenesin will not change the metabolic conditions that caused you to need it in the first place. As soon as you stop taking it, as far as we know, the biochemicals will begin to build up in your body again.

    I have seen many people given a new lease on life with Guaifenesin, and I have experienced it myself. If you wish to learn more, read St. Amand’s What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Fibromyalgia. Some of the data for this section has been adapted from this book, with permission from the authors. There is a Guaifenesin Internet support group, and Web site. Guaifenesin may be purchased over the counter through Hyrex Pharmaceuticals, and they will ship to other countries. Nevertheless, both Dr. St. Amand and I feel that Guaifenesin therapy should take place only under a doctor’s supervision.

    References

    1. Savage, M. K., and D. J. Reed. 1994. Oxidation of pyridine nucleotides and depletion of ATP and ADP during calcium- and inorganic phosphate-induced mitochondrial permeability transition. Biochem Biophys Res Communications 200(3):1615-1620.

    2. Bengtsson A., K. G. Henriksson, and J. Larsson. 1986. Reduced high-energy phosphate levels in the painful muscles of patients with primary fibromyalgia. Arthritis Rheum. 29:817-821.

    3. Aldridge, R., E. B. Cady, D. A. Jones, and G. Obletter. 1986. Muscle pain after exercise is linked with an inorganic phosphate increase as shown by 31P NMR. Biosci Rep 6(7):663-667.

    4. Medical Economics Staff. 1998. PDR for Herbal Medicines. Montvale, NJ: Medical Economics.

    5. Bennett, R. M., P. De Garmo, and S. R. Clark. 1996. A 1 year double-blind placebo-controlled study of Guaifenesin in fibromyalgia. Arth Rheum 39: S212.

    © 2001 Starlanyl and Copeland. All Rights Reserved.