Some more De Meirleir's explanation

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by ulala, Jun 1, 2009.

  1. ulala

    ulala New Member

    received by e-mail from

    Interesting that another bacteria called prevotella is mentioned. These can be found in stool samples and treated. My doctor has prescribed stool sample testing for me for bacteria so that we're not treating infections haphazardly, but can target any bacteria that are present.

    Since the early 1990s, he has built up a large clinical
    practice in Brussels where he sees around 2,000 new
    patients a year. Antibiotics are a cornerstone of his
    therapeutic approach, as dictated by his research.

    In recent years, and in collaboration with a
    microbiologist, Dr Henry Butt, and his team at the
    University of Melbourne, Prof De Meirleir has focused
    on bacteria in the gastro-intestinal tract.

    "This is an obvious place to start since 80 per cent
    of immune system cells are located here," he says.
    A healthy, functioning gut is colonised by "good"
    bacteria that aid digestion and contribute to our

    Many ME patients suffer from multiple intestinal
    symptoms, and Prof De Meirleir believes that an
    overgrowth of "bad" bacteria, including enterococci,
    streptococci and prevotella, is to blame.

    These bacteria are normally present in very small
    quantities in a healthy gut, but can initiate a
    sequence of events leading to the multifarious
    symptoms of ME if they proliferate. (This research
    will be published in the journal In Vivo, in July).

    These "bad" bacteria produce hydrogen sulphide
    (H2S)– a gas naturally occurring in the body, where
    it has several functions – in minute quantities.

    However, in larger quantities, it is a poisonous gas
    that suppresses the immune system, and damages
    the nervous system, according to Prof De Meirleir.

    (Hydrogen sulphide is produced by some animals in
    preparation for hibernation because it "shuts down"
    the body which, in effect, is what occurs in ME.)

    In addition, Prof De Meirleir described how he
    believes the gas reacts with metals, including
    mercury, introduced in minute amounts as
    contaminants in food. The form of mercury produced
    after reacting with hydrogen sulphide also disrupts
    the normal production of energy (known as the Krebs
    Cycle) by individual cells, and this, he says, would
    explain the energy shortfall experienced by ME

    Normal cellular functioning is inhibited and, over
    time, this generates damaging free radicals, highly
    reactive molecules that distort the structure of key
    proteins, such as enzymes and hormones, necessary
    for chemical reactions.

    This results in what Prof De Meirleir calls "aberrant"
    proteins (or prions), which lead to further symptoms
    as the body is increasingly compromised, and which
    he says may play a role in the transmissibility of ME.

    The urine test, developed by Prof De Meirleir and Dr
    Roelant in their privately funded research, detects
    the presence of hydrogen sulphite metabolites,
    which they say confirm the presence of abnormal
    quantities of hydrogen sulphide-producing bacteria.
    The intensity of the colour change in the urine
    indicates the severity of the disease progression.

    Not every ME patient progresses to its most severe
    form, says Prof De Meirleir, but the varying
    symptoms can all be explained by this proposed
    mechanism for the disease.

    In the worst cases of ME, he says it can be shown
    that there is an almost complete eradication of
    "good" bacteria (such as E. coli), the presence of a
    high number of "bad" bacteria in stools, metal
    deposits in tissues, and the presence of aberrant
    proteins in saliva.

    "What we have shown is that these patients have
    an organic disease involving one of the most toxic
    substances [H2S] that exist," he says.

    So what causes the proliferation of
    harmful bacteria in the first place?

    There are, he says, many potential triggers ranging
    from food- borne bacterial (eg salmonella)
    infections, viruses, and toxins, or mental stress. He
    says many ME sufferers have a history of gut
    disorders including gluten and lactose intolerance,
    which may predispose them to colonisation by
    enterococci and streptococci.

    Anna, the 28-year-old Scandinavian patient, is
    typical in this respect, he claims; she had gut
    problems in the past, including possible food
    poisoning while in Mexico. Her treatment focuses on
    short courses of antibiotics to decrease the numbers
    of bad bacteria, treatment with probiotic
    supplements to help restore the good bacteria, plus
    vitamin and mineral supplements. "She is improving,"
    says Prof De Meirleir.

    ME support groups and the medical profession are
    now considering Prof De Meirleir's work. However, Sir
    Peter Spencer, chief executive of Action for ME,
    welcomed the findings: "It is always heartening to
    see new developments that might bring hope to the
    250,000 people in the UK affected by this horrible
    illness, he said.

    "We look forward to seeing Professor Meirleir's
    findings published in a peer-reviewed journal so that
    we can develop a better understanding of this

    [This Message was Edited on 06/01/2009]
  2. ulala

    ulala New Member

    Gut Pathog. 2009 Mar 19;1(1):6.

    A randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled
    pilot study of a probiotic in emotional symptoms
    of chronic fatigue syndrome.

    Rao AV, Bested AC, Beaulne TM, Katzman MA, Iorio
    C, Berardi JM, Logan AC.

    Integrative Care Centre of Toronto, 3600 Ellesmere
    Road, Unit 4, Toronto, Ontario M1C 4Y8, Canada.


    Chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS) is complex illness of
    unknown etiology. Among the broad range of
    symptoms, many patients report disturbances in the
    emotional realm, the most frequent of which is

    Research shows that patients with CFS and other
    so-called functional somatic disorders have
    alterations in the intestinal microbial flora.

    Emerging studies have suggested that pathogenic
    and non-pathogenic gut bacteria might influence
    mood-related symptoms and even behavior in
    animals and humans.

    In this pilot study, 39 CFS patients were randomized
    to receive either 24 billion colony forming units of
    Lactobacillus casei strain Shirota (LcS) or a placebo
    daily for two months.

    Patients provided stool samples and completed the
    Beck Depression and Beck Anxiety Inventories before
    and after the intervention.

    We found a significant rise in both Lactobacillus and
    Bifidobacteria in those taking the LcS, and there was
    also a significant decrease in anxiety symptoms
    among those taking the probiotic vs controls (p =

    These results lend further support to the presence of
    a gut-brain interface, one that may be mediated by
    microbes that reside or pass through the intestinal

    PMID: 19338686 [PubMed - in process]

    PMCID: PMC2664325

  3. Rafiki

    Rafiki New Member

    so to speak, is that this makes a great deal of sense.

    Before coming down with ME, at 27 - in combo with a wicked EBV reactivation, the only think I ever went to the doc. for was various types of colitis, dating back to childhood, and a few visits for asthma - gut and immune.

    The only med.s that have really helped me have been antibiotics (some antibiotics consistently made me much worse or triggered illness) and antihistamine.

    We will not get into my bowel habits or the fact that cognitive flatulence is not the only type I experience :eek:) Suffice it to say, the dog leaves the room.

    Also, everything written about hibernation and de-animation makes complete sense in my experience.

    When I ask the question: Does this make sense in the context of my illness? The answer is: yes.

    I'm hopeful that we are beginning to understand this. I do not expect that we will understand it completely as we do not have a good understanding of MS or Parkinson's or ALS or, or, or... My hope is not only that we will find a treatment for ME but that what we learn from ME, which mimics so many of the aforementioned diseases, may shed light on them, too.

    With Hope,
  4. Rafiki

    Rafiki New Member

    Thank you, very much, Ulala.

    Peace out,
  5. ulala

    ulala New Member

    It's much appreciated!

    This also makes sense for me. It's funny that you mentioned the animation. I used to be very animated and have lost that for many years. The other day I took clindamycin and ceftin and was feeling very good. I was laughing and was much more animated than ususal. A guy at my doctor's office, who knows me pretty well, even commented that I seemed very hyper. He said "you're going to crash!"

    Unfortunatley I stopped the antibiotics because to do the stool sample I have to be off antibiotics for a certain amount of time. Unfortunately I'm not sure what that amount of time is. My doctor told me three days, but I've read on the Internet 7 days to 2 weeks. I'm going to check further because I don't want to have to do it more than once!

    I think that some combinations of antibiotics will help a lot of us but they have to be the right combinations.

    All my best!
  6. gapsych

    gapsych New Member

    Thanks for posting this. This is the first explanation I could understand but keep in mind that I have been very foggy, !!

    Even if it helps only a subgroup, it is positive news but then I guess time will tell if this will pan out.

    Rafiki, I am ROTFL, if that is the right acronym. Do you leave the room when your dog has gas?

    Unfortunately, I have never felt better with antibiotics other than clearing up an infection, usually a UTI.

    I wonder what this means in terms of taking probiotics?

  7. ulala

    ulala New Member

    Specific antibiotcs have to be taken for specific bacteria. Two of the bacteria that are mentioned are gram-positive bacteria and antibiotics that target those bacteria have to be taken. Just because antibiotics haven't helped you in the past doesn't mean that antibiotics won't help you. If you have these particular bacteria you need specific antibiotics to treat them.

    That's why my doctor whant me to have the stool sample test to see what bacteria I actually have and then we can treat them.
  8. frickly

    frickly New Member

    Thanks, for posting this. It is very interesting as I have been on antibiotics for a mycoplasmal infection for several months. It has decreased my pain by about 80%. Without them I am afraid to think about where I might be right now.
  9. ulala

    ulala New Member

    at 6:30 a.m. to 6:45 a.m. and actually get up at that time. That is unheard of for me. It decreases my fatigue a lot. Hopefully we can all find combinations that enable us to get our lives back!

    Best wishes!