Stage 4 sleep

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by sunnysmile, Jun 23, 2006.

  1. sunnysmile

    sunnysmile New Member

    I apologize for sounding dumb, I'm so new to this illness and everything that goes with it, but what is Stage 4 sleep. Is there an article I can read about the stages of sleep on this site? Thanks for your help.
  2. place

    place New Member

    People with Fibro (I think 60-80%) don't get to stage 4 sleeping which is the stage where repair is done in the body. It also where mood hormons are produced.

    Do a search via web and you will get a better idea
  3. CockatooMom

    CockatooMom New Member

    Yes...Place is right.

    We don't get restorative sleep, so that our bodies can heal themselves.

    Stage 4 sleep is also called REM (Rapid Eye Movement)sleep and usually occurs when dreaming.
    <br>[<i>This Message was Edited on 06/24/2006</i>]
  4. redtex

    redtex New Member

    the same thing.
  5. CockatooMom

    CockatooMom New Member

    Gosh, and we just learned about this last semester too! LOL

    There are 4 NREM sleep stages, and ONE REM sleep stage.

    REM= Rapid eye movement (dreaming sleep)

  6. Juloo

    Juloo Member

    Stage 4 is the deepest sleep and corresponds to the slowest brainwaves.

    Although stages 1,2,3,4 then REM is one of the patterns seen, and a common one at that, it is not the only one. At least half the night, even 'normals' don't descend to stage 4 (or even stage 3). As the night wears on, the less 'deep' sleep and the more REM you get. And the older you get, the less stage 3/4 ('deep sleep' stages) are common.

    I've had two sleep studies, and I basically had stages 1,2,REM, or 1 and REM all night long. The sleep of an octagenarian!

    The idiot doctor who read my sleep study told me that since I was getting some REM sleep, I logically must be getting stage 3/4 sleep. I think he hadn't updated himself on sleep research since med school! It's true that some sleep study graphs show the 1,2,3,4,REM format, but updated studies show REM at the top of the graph, followed by 1,2,3,4. I believe this is a clear acknowledgement that sleep is no longer considered a solely linear process.
  7. Lolalee

    Lolalee New Member

    My doctor told me that if I am having vivid dreams (remembering them) that I am achieving deep Stage 4 sleep.

    That makes sense to me because for many years I did not remember having dreams. The past 6-8 months I have been taking 5HTP and Magnesium at bedtime. I sleep a lot better and most nights I remember having vivid dreams.

  8. caroleye

    caroleye New Member

    I have vivid dreams nightly, but I know I'm not getting into Stage 4 (delta sleep).

    By taking my benzos that feed Stage 3 (GABA), I get some sleep, but that's also the "dream" stage. When I had neurofeedback hit my GABA sites, my dreams increased to the point of feeling I wasn't getting any sleep.

    Now I'm slowly working on increasing my Serotonin (delta) to get some of that great deep sleep that I haven't had in years.

    There's lots of information about all of the above via google.


  9. forfink

    forfink New Member

    If so many of us are having very vivid dreams. Especially in the early morning hours before we get up for the day, how can this be quality sleep? I know my sleep is very light, for sure.

    I thought most of us were only in stages 1 & 2 and never really got to stages 3 or 4 in the sleep cycle. Anyone able to explain this? What about all the dreaming we do? Do you think all the meds we take increase dreams?
    <br>[<i>This Message was Edited on 06/25/2006</i>]
  10. caroleye

    caroleye New Member

    Dreaming happens in the Stage 3 sleep (GABA); and if you're taking sleeping meds that are of the benzo/valium family, they feed GABA.


    LISALOO New Member

    When I had normal sleep before being sick only dreamed 3 nights a month. Now, every night, yet sleep study showed no Stage 4 sleep. I asked my doctor if this was wrong, no stage 4, she said no, you're still getting stage 3. Isn't that wrong, don't I need stage 4?
  12. razorqueen

    razorqueen Member

    had a sleep study done. I spent about 60 some % in stage 2, 3% in stage 3, and 0% in stage 4. It took me about 6hrs into my study to get into any REM. There where numerous arousals/awakenings as well during that time.
    I do not have apnea, but do have upper air way restrictive syndrome. I will probably be getting a dental appliance.

    How do we get more delta sleep? At 0% stage 4, no wonder I feel like I do. Even sleeping pills don't help much. Its very frustrating. I can't take Xyrem, as it isn't available in Canada, and my dr didn't even know about it.
  13. razorqueen

    razorqueen Member

  14. kriket

    kriket New Member

    I was told by my rheumy that if you were dreaming you were not resting. Usually when I dream I wake up tired. Especially when I have nightmares.

  15. LonelyHearts

    LonelyHearts New Member

  16. roge

    roge Member

    dreaming doesnt occur in stage 3, it occurs in rem stage a very light stage sleep, but important none the less more so for emotional health.&lt;BR&gt;
    most ADs suppress REM sleep&lt;BR&gt;
    most benzos increase stage 2 but decrease stage 3 and 4&lt;BR&gt;
    stage 3 is slow wave just as stage 4 is so good to get stage 3 as most with fibro and cfs dont get any stage 3 or 4 (both slow wave sleep). ideally want stage 3 and 4 but if just get stage 3 still better than those who dont get any stage 3 and 4.&lt;BR&gt;
    slow wave sleep is where the physical body is restored&lt;BR&gt;
    rem sleep increases as night proceeds and why one dreams more in the morning.&lt;BR&gt;
    slow wave sleep happens in first 1 or 2 cycles so the first 3-4 hours of sleep.&lt;BR&gt;
    pretty sure xyrem is available in canada&lt;BR&gt;
    hopefully in 4 mths FDA will approve xyrem for fibro. xyrem is only one of a few drugs actually PROVEN to increase slow wave sleep. it is also proven to increase growth hormone which is often low in most with fibro. GH is released primarily in slow wave sleep and GH helps to heal the body.&lt;BR&gt;
  17. heapsreal

    heapsreal New Member

    I have read that xyrem works in a similar way to baclofen , a much cheaper and older med used as a muscle relaxer, have also read that it to enhances growth hormone secretion, poor mans version of xyrem.&lt;BR&gt;
    I have used it in doses between 25-50mg and have found it does improve sleep quality and sometimes i do need to take it with something else to actually get to sleep but its good sleep where i wake up feeling refreshed. From what i have read they say you dont get a tolerence to it but i found this not to be true, it did start to lose its effect when used nightly so i only use it 2-3 days a week now and for $60 for 100x25mg tabs its lot cheaper then xyrem, although i would like to try xyrem to see how affective it really is in comparison to other meds.&lt;BR&gt;
    Mirtazipine/avanza is another med that is suppose to increase stage 4 deep sleep but have found it hit and miss myself and can give u abit of a hangover too.&lt;BR&gt;