Starting Methylationa and antibiotics

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by redhummingbird, Jul 21, 2008.

  1. redhummingbird

    redhummingbird New Member

    This isn't a good idea to do at the same time.

    I've felt so poorly the past couple days it has frightened me.

    I started off very slowly with the methylation protocol then went to it every 2 nights.

    I started feeling horribly fatigued, weak, dizzy, etc... on Saturday

    I'm on antibiotics for lyme, babesia herbs, colloidal silver for viral issues.

    I don't know what my doctor was thinking having me start another antibiotic and methylation at the same time.

    I don't know what has caused what at this point. I'm waiting for my doctor to get back to me.

    I feel a tad better today.

  2. brainfoggy

    brainfoggy New Member

    I am too right now. On abx for lyme for a few weeks and have been on methylation for a few months so I'm kinda used to it. You don't want to detox too fast. Maybe you should just do abx. I alter the methylation depending on how I feel. I did infrared sauna today (which you should look into) and felt soooo good and then felt the detox effects later on. The same happened when I had colon irrigation. Toxins need to be excreted so drink alot of lemon water and take baths. I use chlorella and I'm going to try cilantro drops as well for detox. LLMD's are taking big risks treating us but I believe they are truly trying to help fight this nasty disease. Good luck I know how you feel it is horrific.
  3. redhummingbird

    redhummingbird New Member

    Thanks for the support and info. I've never felt so awful before.

    I really like my doctor and it was my fault that I didn't ask him questions. He kind of threw in the methylation protocol as an afterthought so I thought it would be straightforward.

    In hindsight I think it is all a bit too much. I'm going to just stick to antibiotics until I can talk to him more at length about the methylation.

    Have you had good results with the methylation protocol?

    I'm also awaiting igeneX results for babesia.

    Good points about detox. I'm thinking of getting some chlorella but will wait until I start to feel better.

    [This Message was Edited on 07/21/2008]
  4. richvank

    richvank New Member

    HI, redhummingbird.

    I'm sorry to hear about the misery you're going through. I don't think I've heard from anyone else who has done abx and methylation cycle block treatment at the same time. hubcap_halo reported trying Valcyte together with the methylation cycle block treatment a while back, and he found that combination to be intolerable, so he dropped the methylation block treatment until after he finished the Valcyte, and then he resumed it. Perhaps the same is true for abx treatment for Lyme disease, and taking them one at a time might be easier to handle. It will be interesting to see what your doctor says.

  5. redhummingbird

    redhummingbird New Member

    Thank you for your response. I continue to be impressed with how kind you are in taking the time to respond to those of us who are trying this treatment.

    I still believe that it's something I need to do. The fact that I had such a strong reaction further convinces me.

    I think that I would eventually like to get testing to see what sort of methylation block I might have.

    I would also like to help contribute to research given lyme (as well as viruses) are a factor with me.

    I think it would be helpful information. There are also people on a lymeboard I'm on that are now trying the methylation protocol.

    Thank you for everything you do.

    p.s. I read your profile and we are neighbors! I also live in the East Bay and my parents used to work at the lab! My dad was a physicist and is now retired.
  6. redhummingbird

    redhummingbird New Member

    I wanted to get back to you to let you know what my dcotor said.

    He believes (as I do) that I'm on the right track with this. I just did too much at one time.

    I'll back off the methylation supplements and just take antibiotics for the next week or two and then add in one supplement at a time. That way I can figure out which supplement is causing this detox reaction.

    I think Marti was the one who suggested this to me in the first place. I wish I had listened.

    She is also right about another thing which is to understand the methylation protocol a bit better before starting.

    So, I'll be starting again in 2 weeks. Does it matter which supplement to start with?

    Thanks again for your response.
  7. marti_zavala

    marti_zavala Member

    Yes, I did suggest super low and super slow (I think I used the phrase "stupid slow" because it just doesn't seem possible that 1/8 of an itty bitty pill can cause such detox or a sprinkle can affect us so strongly.

    The key with the methylation supplements is that they are bio-available so they really pack a punch. And we have a storehouse of stuff that needs to come out - so we have to open the floodgates a little bit at a time.

    I would also use caution with herxing from antibiotics and colloidal silver. Maybe pulsing the CS until the worst part of the first herxing from antibiotics is over.

    Here is a link to Dr. Yasko's website: The presentation tab is where she has info on the protocol (free and on web). Also, she has a book to learn the protocol. I do not own it but I understand it is a little hard to read. The website design looks new so you may have to search around for the presentation page where her various slide presentations are located.

    Here is a website to a cardiologist who is exploring methylation for his patients. I would not use his recommendations because Rich and Yasko may have a different focus BUT I thought I would point you in this direction because I found the methylation info easier to understand.

    And lastly, there is a yahoo group dealing with the Simplified approach and the complete protocol. I don't think that the simplified group is very active. I am also a member of the complete protocol group CFS_Yasko.

    Hope this helps,
    Hang in there. There are also ways to help reduce detox which could be helpful even when you are just doing antibiotics - GABA, l-theanine, charcoal/magesium (there are others but I am drawing a blank). Valerian root.


  8. richvank

    richvank New Member

    Hi, redhummingbird.

    I can't really give individual treatment advice on the internet, but I think you and your doctor and Marti are right about taking it a little slower.

    Generally speaking, I think it's best to start with the multi and the phosphatidylserine complex, because these provide a general nutritional foundation. Some people already experience detox from these alone, but generally the two supplements that contain folates and the B12 supplement will bring on more detox.

    It's interesting about your father also being retired from the lab and you also living in the East Bay. Small world!

    Best regards,


  9. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    But it is a good rule of thumb to start things one at a time. Otherwise, one cannot know what is causing any problems or side effects.

    I did 2 1/2 years on Doxycycline for chronic mycoplasma infection and the Herxing from that alone was very, very harsh. I am no longer on the ABX, AV's, or Heparin, all of which can cause immune reactions and Herx-like purging.

    I am slowly doing the Methylation Cycle Protocol because it seems to bring on very strong detox and purging. Even though the meds described above seem to have driven my infections into latency, there are obviously toxins in my bod, and possibly previously unidentified chronic pathogens, which are being detoxed. After each detox/purge, with the profuse and odorous sweating and the diarrhea from hell, I do feel better. As with Herxing, the purging is less harsh with time as pathogens or toxins are removed, little by little.

    My other treatments took time to work and I believe this one will too. I cannot imagine having done the ABX, or AV's, along with the MCP. I'm not saying it's dangerous but it could be entirely too harsh.

    BTW, Dr. Cheney recommends the undenatured whey sold here to raise glutatione and I've been taking it for years. Colostrum and probiotics are another excellent way to raise immune health.

    I do believe that the MCP could make other supps and meds unnecessary but the MCP wasn't around when I started out treating my illnesses. My chronic infections were of such long duration and so embedded that I don't know how long it would have taken the MCP to improve my methylation cycle to the point that my body might have been able to drive the pathogens into latency. Perhaps it isn't such a bad idea to use meds to help clear up the infections and switch to the MCP to get the body into an overall better state of health, but this is something to discuss with one's doc.

    For anyone considering targeted transfer factors and/or the Heparin, both can cause very harsh purging as well. Seems with any treatment designed to rid our bods of evil things, it just has to get worse before it gets better. Good luck to you.

    Love, Mikie
  10. frango2

    frango2 New Member

    Just thought I would chime in.

    Lyme kicked off this illness for me 3 years ago. I was one of the "lucky" ones to figure it out within 6 months, but by that time it was already a very serious neurologic illness.

    I treated Lyme and co-infections aggressively for two years and at that point looked more like a CFIDS patient than like the brain tumor or MS or Parkinson's patient that I looked like in the beginning.

    My LLMD tested me for the Methylation block after 2 years of Lyme treatment and I had a clear cut case of Methylation block.

    I am currently on the short protocol for 6 months. Recently I went back on antibiotics to address my Bartonella symptoms. I pulsed Cipro for weeks and am currently on Zithromax/Mepron. I have not experienced any problems.

    Rich, I know you said that you were starting to look into the role that Lyme plays in this whole thing. It has been proposed by the top LLMD's ( I am not sure if there are studies on this, though) that Lyme somehow depletes B vitamin stores. Babesia is thought to feed off of Iron supplies and Bartonella seems to affect Vitamin D levels and Magnesium levels. Many, Many Lyme patients are found to be deficient in these vitamins/minerals.

    It is my belief, although I am by no means a scientist, that Lyme and or other insect borne illnesses are the catalyst in all of these illnesses. I can not wait for the day when the cause of these illnesses are truly discovered. It will be very interesting.

  11. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    I continue to believe, however, that two treatments should not be started at the same time. If one is tolerating one treatment well, another can be added, as was done in your case. Please, continue to let us know how it's going.

    Love, Mikie
  12. richvank

    richvank New Member

    Hi, Joey.

    I think this complex does a couple of things.

    One is that it supports phospholipid membrane repair. The membranes, especially mitochondrial membranes suffer quite a lot of damage in CFS because of the oxidative stress. Phosphatidylserine is particularly helpful for the brain.

    It's helpful to supply the cells with some replacement phospholipids, so they don't have to be synthesized from scratch. In other treatments, IV phosphatidyl choline, or omega-3 and omega-6 fats, or NT Factor are used. I think they all support the membranes.

    Another thing is that some of the choline in the phosphatidylcholine probably gets converted to betaine and supports the BHMT pathway in the methylation cycle.

    Some people also report that this supplement lowers their cortisol at first, so they take it at bedtime and are able to sleep better.


  13. redhummingbird

    redhummingbird New Member

    Rich-thanks again for your reply.

    Mikie-thanks for your reply also. I always learn from you. This post was informative. I'm also being treated for mycoplasma. I strongly agree with you that one should not start on MCP and antibiotics (along with the other treatments you mentioned) because it's too much.

    It would have been good if I had listened to the great advice I had received but I didn't and I'm still paying 4 days now since stopping all MCP supplements.

  14. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    BTW, love your username. As you know, it was a mycoplasma infection which triggered my illnesses full blown, even though I can look back in hindsight and see early omens of things to come. I believe those of us dealing with long-standing Lyme or mycoplasma infections probably benefit greatly from the ABX. It's too early to know whether the MCP, by itself, will help drive these chronic infections into latency. I suspect it would and, like with the ABX, I suspect it would take some time to accomplish.

    I'm in a kind of strange place with the MCP because I've done all those other treatments. Even so, I have a very strong reaction to the MCP supps. They cause heavy purging. I also believe that the supps continue to work beyone when one stops taking them. I can take them for a couple of days, purge, and stop taking them for a while. It never fails that I have another round of purging even if I haven't taken any more supps. I try to time them so that I am home when the purge hits but my schedule at work changes all the time. I have to get up early enough so that if there is diarrhea, I have time to purge at home before I have to go to work.

    I love this board because our members are so generous with their own annecdotal info. We are all different but it helps to know how treatments affect others.

    Good luck to you.

    Love, Mikie