Supplements to support the MCB protocol and the ones that hinder?

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by restauranthell, Jul 20, 2008.

  1. restauranthell

    restauranthell New Member

    If Rich or someone with the knowledge could share with me what to take to support the protocol and what to avoid that might hinder my progress. Thank you.
  2. richvank

    richvank New Member

    Hi, restauranthell.

    Here are some excerpts about that from the update I posted on July 18, 2007. I think they are still current:

    "I am not aware of negative interactions between the five basic supplements and prescription medications used by physicians in treating CFS. However, this treatment approach should not be attempted without considering together with a licensed physician possible interactions between the supplements included in it and any prescription medications that are being taken. This is particularly important if addition of SAMe to the basic five supplements is contemplated."

    "When this treatment approach is used together with prescription medications, a licensed physician must be consulted before discontinuing any prescription medications. Some of them can cause very serious withdrawal symptoms if stopped too abruptly."

    "If this treatment approach is begun by a PWC who is taking a thyroid hormone supplement for a hypothyroid condition, the PWC and the supervising physician should be alert to the possibility that HYPERthyroid symptoms, such as palpitations and sweats, can occur, even very soon after starting this treatment. The physician should be consulted about possibly adjusting or eliminating the thyroid hormone supplementation if this occurs."


    "With regard to possible interactions between the supplements in the simplified treatment approach and other supplements that PWCs may be taking, I am aware of two: (1) I would not recommend taking additional folate beyond what is suggested above, since the various forms of folate compete with each other for absorption, and it is important to get enough of the active forms into the body. Also, it is important not to take too much folate, as mentioned above, because this can cause the detox to develop a momentum, so that it will take some time to slow it down if you want to do that. (2) I would also not recommend taking additional trimethylglycine (TMG, also called betaine) or additional forms of choline, such as phosphatidylcholine or lecithin, since that may stimulate the BHMT pathway too much at the expense of the methionine synthase pathway. The betaine-HCl used to augment stomach acid is something that may have to be omitted while doing this treatment, too, since it will contribute to this stimulation."

    "Adding glutathione support will help some people, as will adding molybdenum.
    As more things are added, though, one is moving toward the full Yasko approach, which is more complicated and expensive. If this is done, I recommend that it be done with the guidance of Dr. Yasko and under the supervision of a personal physician. The simplified treatment approach appears to work well by itself for many PWCs, but others may find that the die-off and detox (or even adverse effects) from this approach used by itself are too severe. In those cases, the PWCs could consult “The Puzzle of Autism,” sold on, to consider together with their doctors what else discussed there might help them. If the simplified approach seems to help to some degree, and it captures one’s attention for that reason, but it still either does not accomplish all that is desired, or it is not tolerated, then perhaps the next step would be to consider the full Yasko treatment. At least then there would be stronger motivation to look into it. Otherwise, it can appear very daunting to many PWCs."

    Also, here's a response I wrote to Marti earlier this month:

    Hi, Marti.

    I thought in addition to the above no high dose B6, no calcium (or reduced calcium), no aspartates such as magnesium aspartate. No Glutamine, Glycine, or high doses of zinc.

    No MSG, No trans fats, no unlabled MSG such as artificial flavors, natural flavors, spices. Reducing excitotoxins - reducing glutamate.

    Above as part of the Yasko full protocol - but wouldn't the simplified protocol also benefit from these restrictions (I do remember somewhere that you mentioned no calcium may not be feasible for adult women- if I remember correctly).

    Am I getting confused with Mullin's list?

    ***You're absolutely right, Marti! Sorry, I forgot to mention all those things. I do think that adult women should maintain some calcium intake, though, as you noted, because of the osteoporosis issue. I also don't think that lowering protein intake is a good idea in CFS, which is recommended in the Yasko program if ammonia is high.

    Sorry, it's hard to remember to say everything when the old brain is tired! Thanks for catching me!


  3. restauranthell

    restauranthell New Member

    Leaky gut is one of my issues, and glutamine has been part of my world for a while. Am I reading this right? Glutamine is not a great thing to be taking while on the protocol?
    And if so why would that be?
    thank you.
  4. richvank

    richvank New Member

    Hi, restauranthell.

    Amy Yasko recommends against taking glutamine because it can readily be converted into glutamic acid, and she wants to lower glutamic acid in order to calm the excitotoxicity that is present in autism and CFS and seems to become worse as the methylation cycle is first supported, which mobilizes toxins.

    I'm not convinced that glutamine is a bad idea for all PWCs, though. It's the most abundant amino acid in blood and in muscle. It is the main substrate (food) for enterocytes (cells lining the small intestine), lymphocytes (white cells in the blood that are part of the immune system) and fibroblasts (the cells that make collagen fibers for connective tissue). It can be very helpful for mending the gut, and people in hospitals have been given several grams a day for this purpose. I can't give individual treatment advice here, and results may differ for different people.

  5. Slayadragon

    Slayadragon New Member

    I took a whole lot of l-glutamine prior to starting on the methylation supplements, since it was supposed to help leaky gut. I never had any problems with it.

    I discontinued it when I started the methylation protocol, as instructed.

    A while later, I decided to add some....not for my gut, but because it's supposed to help with ammonia problems.

    This is emphatically not recommended by Yasko, but I decided to try it anyway.

    It did help the ammonia, but it also gave me that "excitotoxin" thing. I felt so weird that I had to take a Xanax (which I had been cutting back on) to get back to normal.

    So no more glutamine for me.

    My ammonia problems did dissipate in time.

    At first I was taking Lactulose, an extremely mild prescription laxative that (for me) served the dual purpose of reducing ammonia and preventing the severe constipation that plagued me when I was first using the methylation stuff. Along with manganese, it seemed to do a great job with the ammonia.

    I still take manganese but not the Lactulose. I don't think ammonia is a problem for me, but that's one of those things that perhaps I could say for sure if I took a test for it.

    Supposedly if you can lower the amount of bacteria in the gut, ammonia problems decrease. Perhaps that's what's happened to me.