Tahitian Noni? Do you have an opinion?

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by LollieBoo, Nov 15, 2005.

  1. LollieBoo

    LollieBoo New Member

    Has anybody tried this or does anyone use it on a regular basis? Has it helped? How?

    Thanks for any input!
  2. heatherelliott4

    heatherelliott4 New Member

    I knew a girl who was using it. But I don't know why or what it did for her. She had cases of it.
    I'm am curious about what it does as well.
  3. gnanny

    gnanny New Member

    saw a commercial or an ad and thought this was just what I needed. I have a case or more of it on hand. I probably did not give it a fair trial...couldnt fool my taste buds for more than a couple of weeks. I could not see any positive results. I hear it works for many...but the taste is awful. I couldnt overcome that.
  4. LollieBoo

    LollieBoo New Member

    and I seem to recall that the best-tasting ones were the least % of actual Noni. Pure Noni is pretty yucky. My dear mother called today, with high hopes of finding a 'cure' for me... She and my sister were in a massage therapist's office and saw a pamphlet about FM/CFS being cured. They read it, and of course, saw that the LMT had the spoken-of cure right there on hand! Certain that I needed it, she called and at my hesitation offered to bring me a copy of the booklet (put out by the Noni manufacturer- full of anecdotal reports of 'cures'). I told her I would research its effects on FM/ CFS here, then get back with her... I don't want to hurt her feelings by not accepting her desire to help me, but I am so wary of people/ companies trying to prey upon those of us who are in pain and desperate. Anything that claims to 'cure' FM or CFS, in my book, is a scam.

    For my mommy's sake- she loves me very much and wanted to help!- I was hoping that someone had found great success...

    Still hoping!
  5. elastigirl

    elastigirl New Member

    I remember someone raving about Noni Juice here at the board, so I just had to try it.

    I don't know if it had much of a physical effect. I started too many new supplements at once.

    But I did notice one thing. It made me GIGGLE. After I take a dose of Noni Juice, I feel impish and giddy! I keep thinking, "Is this stuff legal?!"

    The effect doesn't last long, but I always enjoy it when it hits :).

    Watch out for Meijer (a US chain) -- Walmart only charges $10 a bottle, Meijer charges $16 for the same stuff.
  6. OptimusUndead

    OptimusUndead Member

    i'll have to do more research.. but this drink supports my already acquired theory (by someone else)that certain sugars (no not like table sugar) are ABSolUTELY! vital to keeping our systems cells health and working.. especially cell to cell communications... i already posted on the other topic on "NONI" & Mangosteen juice/" topic... I'll make a quick assumption during my bain fog.. it probobly helps a few brain functions produced by "normally functioning cells" that we as CFS/FM sufferers don't normally have...

    I wouldn't personally think of this as a cure, but its benefits are outstanding. i also said in the other topic, i'm going to be ordering a box of it called XANGO Mangosteen juice.. they have the origional patent on the technology.. so they origionated it supposedly.
  7. jfrustrated

    jfrustrated New Member

    I tried it several years ago, when the physio I was going to at the time started sellling it. It did nothing for me at all.
  8. jaltair

    jaltair New Member

    Just another FAD.
  9. LollieBoo

    LollieBoo New Member

    That was my impression when it came out on the market years ago- it was touted as a 'cure' for so many things, and made lists of claims- it may contain some excellent enzymes and sugars, but I am always wary (as I said) of a product claiming so many benefits without explaining physiology of the effects...

    Thanks, y'all!
  10. LollieBoo

    LollieBoo New Member

    and you saw a difference. That means that the $30 bottle my mom found would last about a week. I guess it's expensive. So is it worth checking out the Wal-Mart brand, or does it have to be a specific kind? I know there are pure 100% pure Noni, and then ones that add other juices, but as far as the pure ones, does it make a difference?

    Thanks again!
  11. elastigirl

    elastigirl New Member

    I checked the WalMart bottle. There's 3 grams of Noni Fruit per ounce. I don't know if it's pure, didn't check, but I like the price.

    I'm wondering now if it IS helping with my immune support? Because I ran out of colloidal silver -- what I use to stave off colds and flus, or at least lessen their severity -- a few weeks ago, and I STILL haven't caught a cold or flu.

    This is unheard of for me. I was always catching something, now we're a month into cold weather, and still nothing -- knock on wood :).

    Edited to add: I take one ounce per day.
    [This Message was Edited on 11/19/2005]
  12. tansy

    tansy New Member

    has worked for me, the one I use is made by Nutramedix and it works out a lot cheaper in the long run.

    I took too much to start with so I soon learned it could have an effect, it also helps with detox so I think that's why I had a hard time to start with. Breaks from noni indicate it still works for me.

    Noni is said to have many beneficial actions, many of them made me feel it had the potential to help; so after my initial difficult time taking it I decided to try again. This time I took the lowest possible dose and built it up slowly.

    Some months later I went onto higher doses after too much die off from my samento; this worked for me but I found it took too much of an edge of my emotions leaving me feeling emotionally flat. Noni can be used for depression and anxiety. Now I am on what seems to be the right dose for me and only need to take it once a day atm.

    [This Message was Edited on 11/19/2005]
  13. kalaya

    kalaya New Member

    Do not be scammed by this snake oil.Noni juice is absolutely not a cure for fibro or cfids on any level,I would venture to say that it would not be even a measurable percentage of upgrade.But if you have way way more money than you know what to do with and you have run out of charitable organisations to give to then yes go ahead and donate money to the people who distribute Noni juice so that they can pad there bank accounts I am certain they will cheerfully accept all the cash you will be willing to give them.
    I apologise for the sarcasm but this stuff is pure ballocks and the producers of noni juice have been heavily fined by the government for making fraudulent claims for there juice and noni has also been banned in several countries for the same offense.
    As far as someone on this board raving about it awhile back,this woman was a salesperson for noni juice masquerading as a fibro sufferer.You need to discriminate sometimes and not just openly accept every fancifal claim on this board.
    There are sales people who do attempt to pray on the desperation to become well of the sufferers on this board.I am not at all saying that it is wrong to have an interest in noni ,no only trying to spare you the waste of money and time and hope that this venture would bring.God bless.
  14. elastigirl

    elastigirl New Member

    I remember that thread. The girl was raving about Noni Juice but never tried to sell it to anyone. We have no personal emails here, we are not allowed to sell anything on the board, and she did not use any kind of referral link to gain profits.

    I thought she was treated a bit unfairly. Wasn't she drummed right off the board? Sometimes newbies can get excited when they find something that works (note: works for ~them~, not necessarily the rest of us.)

    If you notice, there are several friendly members who have posted that they are using this product. Why insult us and try to make us feel foolish for using a product we feel works for us to some degree?

    Personally, I was hurt by your post.
    [This Message was Edited on 11/20/2005]
  15. IntuneJune

    IntuneJune New Member

    Below are two separate posts......

    Sorry I cannot give credit to the original posters. I cut and pasted this into a "Word" document.

    Everyone on the board is struggling to find what helps them. Those of us on this journey for some time knows there is no "cure." So we come together to help one another gather tools to get through the day knowing what helps one might not help someone else.

    Pleasant reading.....June

    No idea if this is accurate but it "explains" why Noni Juice
    "might" help. Got it off a commercial website. If it's at Walmarts and 100% pure, I'll give it a shot too.

    At the cellular level in the human body is where Noni's greatest work is thought to be done — helping abnormally functioning cells resume normal function and helping normal cells maintain regular function*.

    There are several theories that may explain why Noni works beneficially in the body. Some believe it is a selection of polysaccharides, giving Noni fruit its beneficial effects. Other theories, based on research study findings, suggest that Noni promotes the production of nitric oxide in the body, which has been shown to strengthen the body's natural ability to fight tumors and viral, bacterial and parasitic infections.

    The more popular explanation is called the "xeronine system" developed by the forerunner in Noni research, Dr. Ralph Heinicke Ph.D. who also teamed up with a medical doctor to develop the “Heinicke-Solomon Theory" to explain Noni's wide range of effectiveness in the human body.

    Perhaps the best way to explain the Noni fruit's believed effectiveness for treating a diverse number of ailments and diseases may be explained by the Heinicke-Solomon Theory. The hypothesis is the result of Dr. Ralph Heinicke working with a Johns Hopkins-trained physician, Neil Solomon, MD, and PhD, who together developed the Heinicke-Solomon Theory.

    The two doctors theorize that the Noni fruit’s effectiveness could be isolated in the Golgi Apparatus (GA) found in human body cells. An adult human being is made up of approximately 100,000 billion cells. The function of the GA is to bring together and distribute various compounds to cells that need them. In their theory, when Noni juice is consumed, the various components are absorbed into the body. It is the belief of the two men that proxeronine, found in Noni juice, gathers in the GA where it is combined with other bio-chemicals the body uses to maintain properly functioning cells.

    Once proxeronine and these other bio-chemicals are combined, the GA gives the package an address for the sick cell and it is delivered through the blood stream. After the package arrives to the sick cell, the package is unpacked and the proxeronine is combined with another enzyme, proxeroninase, that is then converted to xeronine. Xeronine is at the center of the theory, believed to work with other biochemicals to create an adaptogenic compound used to help a specific cell. Through this process, the Heinicke-Solomon theory states the cell regains a state of homeostasis that leads the body back to a balanced state.

    The theory that the Golgi Apparatus is able to package and deliver specific proteins through the blood to a damaged cell and help repair itself is similar to the discovery Dr. Günter Blobel of Rockefeller University made, which was awarded the 1999 Nobel Prize in medicine. Dr. Blobel was awarded the Nobel Prize " for the discovery that proteins have intrinsic signals that govern their transport and localization in the cell." The principles described by Günter Blobel is that a number of human hereditary diseases are caused by errors in these signals and transport mechanisms of our cells.

    Research studies suggest that the compounds found in Noni may work at the cellular level in the human body to help abnormally functioning cells resume normal function and help normal cells maintain regular function*

    Dr. Heinicke's research began in the early 1950’s while working at the Pineapple Research Institute for the Dole Pineapple Company in Hawaii. Dr. Heinicke was conducting research on pineapple to develop a method of extracting the enzyme that caused pineapple to prevent gelatin desserts from setting up. Through his research, Dr. Heinicke isolated a substance he called "bromelain," an enzyme he found in pineapple. Commissioned to find medicinal uses for the enzyme, he began to receive reports from other researchers telling of unique medicinal properties associated with bromelain extracts as well.

    In 1972, Dr. Heinicke began researching the Noni fruit. Abundant in Hawaii, Noni fruit exceeded the amount of bromelain found in pineapple. Dr. Heinicke attempted to identify the unknown ingredient found in bromelain that gave the fruit its potent pharmacological properties. After many frustrating years, he identified this ingredient as a new alkaloid he named "xeronine." Xeronine is a dry alkaline, hence its name comes from the Greek prefix “xeros” which means dry, and the suffix “ine” indicates that it is alkaline in nature. In theory, xeronine enhances enzyme activity and protein structures[1].

    Later, Heinicke discovered that Noni contains a significant amount of the precursor of xeronine that he named "proxeronine." He discovered that when proxeronine is combined with other substances, such as vitamins, minerals, antioxidants, serotonin and protein in the presence of the enzyme proxeroninase, xeronine is then formed in the large intestine and stored in the liver. Xeronine is theorized to help abnormally functioning cells to resume normal function as it helps healthy cells maintain their normal function*.

    In October 1983, Dr. Heinicke received a patent for xeronine as a new alkaloid, with the United States Patent and Trademark Office. The trademark's title is "Xeronine, a new alkaloid, useful in medical, food and industrial fields."

    Pharmacologically Active Ingredient of Noni-juice: Noni-Xeronine 10/09/05 07:54 AM
    More info on Noni Juice and its active ingredient from Dr. Heinicke. Again, don't know if any of this is true. Taken from his commercial site.
    The Pharmacologically Active Ingredient
    of Noni-Xeronine
    By Dr. R.M. Heinicke University of Hawaii

    In The Bulletin, April 1972, Maria Stewart described how the Hawaiians solved many of their medical problems by drinking infusions of the fruit of the Noni tree (Morinda citrifolia). The missionaries, who frequently had to minister to the body as well as the soul, were impressed with the efficacy of these options. Yet identifying the pharmacologically active ingredient of Noni has been difficult - for an understandably good reason. The active ingredient is not present in the plant or fruit! Only after the potion has been drunk does the active ingredient form. Sometimes!

    My search for the active ingredient in Noni began with a series of studies on the pineapple plant. Since about 1972 I had been attempting to identify the unknown ingredient in "bromelain", which gives crude preparations of this enzyme their potent pharmacological properties. (Sometimes!)

    After many discouraging years of research I eventually identified this ingredient as a new alkaloid to which I gave the name "xeronine". Noticing that the clinical claims of efficacy for bromelain and Noni were practically identical, I tried the same techniques on Noni fruit, a technique which I had developed for isolating xeronine from the pineapple plant. The technique worked! Not only was I able to isolate the same compound from Noni fruit, but the yields were excellent. Today Noni is one of the best raw materials to use for the isolation of xeronine.

    Xeronine is a relatively small alkaloid that is physiologically active in the picogram range. (Editorial note: a picogram is one trillionth of a gram.) It occurs in practically all healthy cells of plants, animals and microorganisms. However, the amount of free alkaloid is minute, and is well below the limits of normal chemical analytical techniques.

    Even though Noni fruits have a negligible amount of free xeronine, they contain appreciable amounts of the precursor of xeronine. This precursor, which I have named "proxeronine", is a strange molecule. The molecular weight is relatively large, namely about 16,000. In contrast to most plant colloids, this colloid contains neither sugars, nor amino acids, nor nucleic acids. Thus most biochemists have overlooked this relatively abundant molecule which occurs in most tissues.

    Noni fruits also contain the inactive form of the enzyme that releases xeronine from proxeronine. Unless this pro-enzyme becomes properly activated, however, Noni juice will cause few pharmacological reactions. Fortunately, if Noni juice is taken on an empty stomach, the critical pro-enzyme escapes digestion in the stomach and enters the intestines. Here the chances are high that it may become activated.

    Many years of research are still required to demonstrate convincingly how xeronine functions at the molecular level in a cell. In the meantime I can suggest certain hypotheses which can act as a guide in planning experiments. I am basing these hypotheses both on clinical results with bromelain pills as well as on a limited number of laboratory and animal experiments carried out with pure xeronine.

    I am proposing that the primary function of xeronine is to regulate the rigidity and shape of specific proteins. Since these proteins have different functions, we have the usual clinical situation where administering one simple drug causes an unbelievably wide range of physiological responses.

    The action which xeronine has on a person depends upon which of his tissues has a suboptimal level of xeronine. Thus xeronine can alleviate certain subsets of almost any known disease. For no disease, however, will xeronine be a panacea. A physiological disease, for example senility, may be caused by a deficiency or imbalance of a number of different biochemicals as well as by malfunctioning blood vessels, hormone systems, or immune bodies. Only if the disease is specifically caused by a lack of xeronine will xeronine alleviate the symptoms of the problem.

    I believe that each tissue has cells which contain proteins, which in turn have receptor sites for the absorption of xeronine. Certain of these proteins are the inert forms of enzymes which require absorbed xeronine to become active. Thus xeronine, by converting the body's procollagenase system into a specific protease, quickly and safely removes the dead tissue from burns. It is for this reason that aloes, bromelain and Noni are such effective treatments for burns. Other proteins become potential receptor sites for hormones after they react with xeronine. Thus the action of ginseng, bromelain and Noni in making a person feel well is probably caused by xeronine converting certain brain receptor proteins into active sites for the absorption of the endorphin, the well being hormones. Other proteins form pores through membranes in the intestines, the blood vessels, and other body organs. Absorbing xeronine on these proteins changes the shape of the pores and thus affects the passage of molecules through the memanes. Thus the action of bromelain, Noni, and ginseng in improving digestion may be ascribable to this action. These are just a few of the many exciting actions of this newly discovered alkaloid. Since Noni is a potential source of this alkaloid, Noni juice can be a valuable herbal remedy.

    There are some practical problems, however, in using Noni juice as a medicine or tonic. If one is dying and all other remedies have failed, then and only then will the average person drink Noni juice. The flavor of juice made from ripe Hawaiian Noni is terrible. None of my colleagues would touch the untreated juice. Even after I had removed most of the disagreeable flavor (several organic acids) from the juice, my colleagues still found it unfit to drink. For a price, the odoriferous chemicals can be removed from the Hawaiian variety. However, other varieties grown in other Pacific Islands are milder in flavor.

    Another critical problem in using Noni juice as a medicine or health tonic is timing. If the juice is drunk on a full stomach, it will have very little beneficial action. The pepsin and acid in the stomach will destroy the enzyme that liberates xeronine. For a seriously sick person, taking the juice on an empty stomach rarely poses a problem because the patient is too sick to want to eat anything. However, for the average person who wants to drink Noni juice as a health tonic, timing is critical. I would recommend taking 100 ml of Noni juice a half-hour before breakfast. At this time the juice will pass rapidly through the stomach and into the intestines, where it may be converted into the active enzyme. At any other time of the day, especially at meal times, the primary effects of drinking Noni juice will be psychological and caloric. Because of the strong flavor, the psychological effect might not necessarily be positive! To obtain the maximum effect of the active ingredient in Noni, I would recommend also that Noni juice not be taken with coffee, tobacco or alcohol. At times the combination of these materials and Noni can give some unexpected side effects. At other times the combination merely lowers the potentially beneficial effect of xeronine.

    Although the Hawaiians recommended both green fruit and ripe fruit for treating various ailments, my personal recommendation would be to use only the green fruit. The green fruit has more of the potentially valuable components and less of the undesirable flavor. In light of the new information on the action of xeronine, what are some of the possible applications of Noni juice? First I should make the caveat that for all of the possible applications which I am listing, one must always add the phrase "some types but not other types." Some of the problems which drinking Noni juice might favorable affect are: high blood pressure, menstrual cramps, arthritis, gastric ulcers, sprains, injuries, mental depression, senility, poor digestion, atherosclerosis, blood vessel problems, addiction, relief for pain and many others. Although this list looks like a page torn out of traveling medicine man's manual, it is probably conservative.

  16. LollieBoo

    LollieBoo New Member

    And I can appreciate your skepticism, Kalaya- we are an easy lot to prey upon. I often feel that I will believe anyone that says they can end my pain!

    What I got from the articles was that Noni contains copious amounts of bromelain- that is an excellent plant-derived proteolytic enzyme. It makes sense that that alone would help with quite a number of illnesses and imbalances. In particular, Tansy, as you noted, there would be a direct detoxification, but also if it is truly concentrated (he said he isolated it, but apparently didn't quantify it?), it would also help to 'uncover' hidden toxins and to unmask viruses. The protective sheath that allows viruses to creep around our bodies unnoted is primarily a protein/ dna stucture. If that is even partially broken down, it makes the viruses more vulnerable to attack. Tansy, you are on some antivirals, aren't you? How much have you worked back up to? The bromelain should also help with the viral die-off- that should be a huge benefit. That is also a good reason to take the Noni juice on an empty stomach.

    Has anyone benefitted from bromelain alone (on an empty stomach)? Do you take bromelain in addition to the Noni juice, Tansy? I wonder if the primary action of Noni isn't just the same as bromelain, because they are awful similar.

    It did bother me that, while citing the 1999 Nobel Prize-Winning 'discovery', it was breezed over lightly enough to liken it to the isolation of one alkaloid from a healing plant. The concept that Dr. Blobel spoke of in his 1999 work, was that of 'protein chaperones'. That in order for our body to fully assimilate vitamins and other nutrients (like through intestinal wall to blood to cell and inside cells), they must be paired with a 'protein chaperone'. That important body of work clarified that the best source of vitamins and nutrients is the food in which they naturally occur. If you isolate the 'active' alkaloids, then you miss the biochemical synergy that is present in the natural state. So he cites this phenomenal work as being similar to the isolation of an alkaloid from an already-extremely-active substance! Perhaps for research purposes, but certainly not for treatment of illnesses.

    Anyway. The idea of a sort of protein-shaping 'key' seems interesting. I may have to mull it over a few days- fully 'digest' the idea-- ! I crack myself up! That part I could see sort of meshing with Dr. Blobel's work. If you need a protein chaperone to usher a nutrient into a cell, you would benefit from the Xeronine (or proxeronine) making the protein compatible with what the cell is letting in. However, doesn't he say something that sounds an awful lot like the Proxeronine is the precursor to Xeronine, which is the precursor to bromelain? He talked around alot in that whole spiel- don't you just wish sometimes people would just talk to PEOPLE?!

    He also mentioned several components that must be present for the conversion of proxeronine to xeronine- including its specific enzyme, proxeroninase. I am assuming that would be present only in the noni fruit... So do you have to make sure to get unpastuerized Noni, so that the enzymes aren't killed?

    Thanks for all the great feedback, y'all!
  17. tansy

    tansy New Member

    but alongside that I believe we should be open minded, look at all the claimed pros and cons, then make up our own minds.

    Ayurvedic medicine has been around for over 2,000 years. It has stood the test of time but is still regarded as quackery by the more narrow minded in mainstream medicine. Now just one of Ayurvedic’s remedies, turmeric, has been the subject of numerous studies that have demonstrated it’s efficacy in a wide range of health problems. The same is happening with other plant based remedies and supps

    There are other superfoods that are becoming increasing popular because they have a positive effect upon symptoms and/or general health. Examples of these include tart cherry and mangosteen juices, fish oil, various mushrooms, spirulina and chlorella; there are others too.

    Whether they work depends upon whether you actually need their therapeutic effects, and how able the body is to utilize them. The same applies with supplements; sometimes what seem to be adverse effects can be explained by other factors; a few examples are gut flora, pathogens and/or toxins, nutritional and metabolic imbalances.

    Tansy[This Message was Edited on 11/22/2005]
  18. tansy

    tansy New Member

    Hi Lollie

    Yes I finally tolerated the recommended dose, 8 drops of extract bid. When the herxing from samento remained physically overwhelming, I stopped the samento for a while and increased my intake of the noni extract. Now I find I need less and just up my dose again when more is needed.

    I started taking bromelain over 2 years ago, and continued to take it until this summer, so I took it prior to the noni extract as well as taking both for about 8 months.

    My family’s, and my, medical histories made David Berg’s theory particularly relevant. The bromelain was very effective, too much so, I ended up in a mess in Dec 2003 because more than my body could handle was released at one time as it successfully broke down the fibrin build up.

    After a lot more research I opted instead for natto and turmeric this summer. I take a pancreatic enzyme between meals and digestive enzymes with my meals. It was concentrating on the coagulopathy, inflammation, ion channelopathy, and better ways to support my body’s ability to excrete toxins that led to a more marked changed in my health and quality of life.

    I have been using various natural antimicrobials, and for 7 months took doxy for a chronic middle ear infection. I prefer the gentler approach, anything stronger ends up being counter productive, for me it really is a case of slow and steady wins the race. Now I understand why better than I did before: as is so often the case, it was not down to one or two factors but quite a few; a mix of genetics and being in the wrong place at the wrong time. So my aim this year has been to address the negative effects these have on my health and disability, and learn from adverse reactions to potentially helpful Tx.

    A UK based doctor, who does not use ABx for all his ME/CFS and borreliosis/lyme patients, suggests noni and bromelain be used alongside samento.

    Love, Tansy[This Message was Edited on 11/22/2005]
  19. elastigirl

    elastigirl New Member

    I guess a little part of me thought I didn't really need Noni juice because it probably wasn't doing enough for me to warrant the $10 per bottle.

    I went through two bottles, then ran out. Very soon thereafter, I lost that "lovin' feeling." I wasn't happy! I was grumpy, impatient, achy, sniffly, sore-throaty and just really -- CFS-y!

    But I thought, I can hold off for a few more days, maybe this is a fluke. So I did. Still, gggggggrrrrrrrr! Bad mood. Grumpy. Catching-a-cold-y. It felt like all of my CFS symptoms had returned -- luckily, in a mild form. Still enough to annoy, though.

    Maybe the Noni juice gave my other supplements (or my body) the boost it needed to respond well to all the things I'm taking? I have no idea.

    Yesterday when I received the best news I have received in a long time -- and didn't even feel a blip of happiness or elation -- I knew that I needed a fix of Noni.

    As a result of this little trial, I have put Noni juice back on my shopping list :).[This Message was Edited on 12/07/2005]