TF okay with Antiviral???

Discussion in 'Transfer Factor' started by kimberly236, Apr 23, 2007.

  1. kimberly236

    kimberly236 New Member

    Hi all. I have a question. My doctor has me on Valtrex 1g/ day for me very high EBV numbers as well as a positive HHV6 result. I am interested in trying a transfer factor that targets these 2 viruses, but is it okay to take the TF at the same time as the Valtrex? Will they conflict with each other, making them ineffective?

    Thanks,
    Kimberly
  2. spacee

    spacee Member

    Isn't that alot of AV to stay on...or are you pulsing? My doc would not rx that for me.

    I have blood work similar to yours.

    I just don't know the answer to your question. I have taken Valtrex but I was not on the TF at the time. Mikie pulses TFs, ABX and AV's but not at the same time.

    Actually, it seems to me that they work in a different way and that it probably would not interfere.

    There is one of the big name docs who does prescribe them together but I can't think of his name. Also, I think that the Brussels doc prescribes them together.

    Just FYI, nothing has brought down my titers but they haven't been tested in about 3 years. They were tested alot by my ID doc but I don't see him anymore and the local doc doesn't test for the titers.

    Spacee
  3. kimberly236

    kimberly236 New Member

    Hi Spacee. I just responded to your other reply, then I saw this one.
    I'm surprised your doc wouldn't give you 1g (i.e. 1000mg) Valtrex. That's the suppression dosage used by patients who take it for genital herpes. (Thank goodness I don't have that problem, too!) Actually, I have been concerned that the dosage is too small given my high numbers.
    I really think that the EBV is what is causing the majority of my problems. My most bothersome symptoms are so "viral", like sore throat, fever, fatigue, swollen glands, and it was mono that triggered this whole thing.
    I do like the theory behind the TF idea, and may very well try it.

    Thanks,
    Kimberly
  4. spacee

    spacee Member

    My doc is practically a geriatic doc because of so many older people in this area. I think he is just not that comfortable with prescribing it. I ususally have to take in an article about what another doc has prescribed something for a CFS patient, then he is willing to try it.

    I am feeling so rotten from this Iritis that I am in no mood to try anything else. It is the side effects of the eye drops that's bad. I am wondering if it is affecting my already low white count. Oh, well...I have an appt Mon.

    Good luck!!

    Spacee
  5. spacee

    spacee Member

    In the "search box" on the Chronic Fatigue Board type in Rich Carson and you can read what some people have written about some of his protocol. Go to the library here and type in his name and that should give you info too.

    I know that he had posted that he takes the Mycoplus and the Immune Transfer C which is NOW called Transfer Factor Blend 100. There is another TF that has the "100" in it's name so it is easily confused. Both of these run about $150 each for 30 capsules. Pricey. I take both but not on the same day. (alternate days) Plus I take a day off a week some times more.

    Rich also juices 14 organic vegetables a day. Buys them once a week, soaks them in water to dissolve any dirt, ect, then divides them into 7 day batches and refridgerates. He says he would like to give it up but when he does he feels his energy level fading.

    I think that Rich also takes some supplements but I have forgotten what they are.

    Oh, I forgot his mercury detox. He had all the fillings removed from his teeth that took about a year and then took a supplement to help get it out of his body. He was exposed to a mercury spill in his car when he was a teenager, I think. ( mercury thermometer??) I don't know.

    Spacee
    [This Message was Edited on 09/22/2007]
  6. spacee

    spacee Member

    I am breaking this up because I don't like reading long post.

    There is HHV6A and HHV6B. The Transfer Blend 100 targets the A. And there is another one that targets the HHV6B but I don't know the name of it.

    Immunity Today used to sell one that targeted both but their site says that it is not available at this time.

    Yes, I would think that Valtrex could target EBV. And the TF HHV6.

    Rich says to start out slow on the TF's cause they can pack a punch for some people. You can open the TF and scoop out some. You can take it at night. You also can open the capsule up and put it under your tongue. It is in the bloodstream in less than 4 mintues. The Chisholm Biological Lab told me that. That is the way I take mine.

    Anything you want to know about a TF such as which one targets HHV6 A or B, just email Prohealth and they will send you the info. They used to publish it but not anymore. All the TF's are sold here but not listed anywhere. I order mine through their 800#.

    Hope that helps!

    Spacee
  7. Slayadragon

    Slayadragon New Member

    I wrote this a while back for the CFS board.

    My experience in combining AV's and TF is that mixing the two does "pump up the volume." My doctor (experienced in treating hundreds of patients with both) agrees.


    **

    This is my brief metaphor for my understanding of how AV's (Valtrex/Famvir/Valcyte/etc.) and transfer factor work.

    Usually, herpes viruses (bad guys) hide out in apartments (regular cells of the body) where the police (T-cells) can't find them.

    AV's put locks on the doors of the apartments so that the bad guys can't hide in them. They thus are forced to spend their time out on the streets where they are easier to find.

    However, even when they're roaming the streets, the cops aren't necessarily going to kill them all right away. There are a lot of people out on the streets, and the cops don't know automatically which ones to arrest.

    Transfer factor is like giving the cops a "Most Wanted" sheet with photos of the bad guys on it. After looking at the photos, the cops can find the bad guys more easily and then try to arrest them (or, more specifically, gun them down since the bad guys do not go quietly into that good night).

    Note that the transfer factor and AV thus work synergistically.

    If the criminals have good hiding places, it doesn't help a whole lot if cops know what they look like. The bad guys do have to go out sometimes anyway, but they generally don't do it for long.

    On the other hand, if the cops don't know what the bad guys look like, the bad guys can survive pretty long without being caught even they have to live out on the streets.

    Based on this, it sounds at first like transfer factor and AV's always should be used together.

    My own experience is that the only problem is that it jacks up the fighting a whole lot. It's like the cops and the bad guys are having a huge ongoing war, with lots of shooting back and forth.

    After a little while, my body got worn out from all that fighting. I was having a hard enough time dealing with the bloodshed when cops happened to run into the bad guys coincidentally. I've got a lot bad guys in my body, and the Famvir seemed to be pretty effective at locking up their hiding places.

    If the cops feel obliged to kill every single bad guy they find (and since they're very conscientious they actually do), they don't get any time to go get donuts and rest. Rest is important.

    For someone on a lower dose of AV than their body can handle, progress may be slow. The cops thus may not have much to do with just the AV. If you're not getting a die-off reaction, you can guess that your cops aren't too overworked.

    In that case, maybe giving them a "Most Wanted" list would be helpful. There wouldn't be any additional bad guys on the streets as a result, but at least the cops would be really efficient at killing off the ones that were there.

    I'm not absolutely sure this is the right way to look at the situation. I made up the analogy myself, based on my understanding of how transfer factor and AV's work.

    I've not read or heard about many people taking transfer factors and AV's together, but my doctor said that it was fine to do so "if I could tolerate it." I've no reason to believe they would be less effective if used together, anyway.

    If you try TF and AV's together, you will want to get transfer factor that is targeted at the viruses you're trying to kill. Some products target EBV, for instance.

    Hopefully other people will chip in their thoughts if they have ideas about the topic. I don't think a lot of people have thought about this combination a lot, and so a discussion might be interesting.


    **

    Note: It's my understanding that antiviral enzymes like Virastop can dissolve viruses only when they are "out of hiding."

    They thus seem as though they should have the same effect as transfer factor on the herpes family viruses (e.g. having a bigger effect when used in combination with a prescription antiviral such as Valtrex, Famvir or Valcyte).

    The best analogy I can think of offhand is that Virastop is like a chemical weapon, killing off all the people (viruses) roaming about while leaving the structures (buildings) intact.

    Again, people hiding out in their apartments (with the windows sealed with duct tape) are less likely to get killed. If you can force them out in the open, then the fumes will get them.

    **

    All this is related to the repeated board comment that "AV's don't kill viruses, they just stop them from replicating":

    As for the "prevents viruses from replicating".....that's true as far as it goes, but it's a little bit simplified. (I've read a lot about this and feel certain I've got it right insofar as anyone does. It may be that scientists themselves do not understand how AV's work---as they don't understand how SSRI's work---but that's something else.)

    In order to replicate, viruses enter cells of the human body. They then plug themselves into the cell and use the energy in order to replicate. After a while, all the replicated viruses (sometimes thousands from one cell) burst out, each trying to find a new cell.

    AV's keep viruses from hooking onto the cells. It thus is true that they cannot replicate.

    However, if a virus cannot hook onto a cell, it is "left hanging" (this is specific language from medical texts!). It thus desperately moves around the body trying to find another cell that it can hook onto.

    During the time that it is "swimming around" trying to find a new home, it can be seen by T-cells and B-cells. (Those immune cells cannot see herpes viruses when they are hiding and replicating, since herpes viruses keep infested cells from producing a protein that alerts T-cells and B-cells that they are in there. Natural Killer Cells would know by some sort of "magic" that the herpes viruses are hiding in cells, but unfortunately CFS patients have deactivated NK Cells.)

    As soon as T-cells and B-cells see those homeless viruses, they go after them.....as I describe in my analogy about the cops and the criminals. (The T-cells and B-cells are the cops, whereas the herpes viruses are the bad guys. I am leaving NK Cells out of the analogy, since they are disabled.)

    Hope this makes sense. It's not easy to explain succcinctly, which is why people get a bit confused about it.
  8. Slayadragon

    Slayadragon New Member

    I have seen Valtrex prescribed long-term (initial dose) for CFS patients at doses between 250 mg and 4000 mg.

    (This is equivalent to about 150 mg and 1500 mg of Famvir.)

    Some people get a severe die-off at even 1000 mg of Valtrex (less than 400 mg of Famvir). Others get no die-off at even the highest dose.

    Moreover, some people get die-off with Famvir but not Valtrex. Others get die-off with Valtrex but not Famvir.

    (Note that these all are folks who have tested positive for HHV6 and reactivated EBV.)

    Perhaps some strains of the virus are resistant to one of the drugs but not the other. There also may be some undiscovered herpes viruses that do not yet have tests but still affect CFS sufferers.

    Most CFS sufferers with high HHV6 and EBV do seem to get die-off from Valcyte. Its spectrum of action seems wider (thus effectively targeting a wide variety of strains and types of herpes family viruses).

    Doctors who use low doses of antivirals tend to do so because they believe that severe die-off can weaken the patient's system, decreasing their overall health as well as their immune system's ability to fight viruses on its own.

    Doctors who use higher doses bellieve that lower doses are not strong enough to defeat patients' major viral problems.

    Some doctors think that using Famvir/Valtrex for a while can knock off a lot of the viruses. They then follow it with Valcyte, hoping that it will get rid of a lot more without the huge die-off that usually accompanies Valcyte use (when it's the first thing used).

    I don't think anyone has a good idea yet of how best to use these drugs. There certainly is a lot of disagreement.

    For what it's worth, my doctor's approach is to use the highest amount of Valtrex/Famvir tolerated (so that die-off symptoms are only slightly noticable).

    Perhaps eventually there will be more agreement on how the best way is to use these drugs. I hope so.
  9. kimberly236

    kimberly236 New Member

    The only thing i can tell you is that his standard protocol is 1000 mg/day. He is the type that is a little uncomfortable trying anything new/unusual.

    Kimberly