TF's Working--Herxing

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by Mikie, Jun 1, 2006.

  1. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    Just my usual update that I always do every 6 weeks when I pulse my transfer factors. I took them at the end of last week. I've been really tired for a couple of days. Today, I woke with a headache and the diarrhea from hell is here. This isn't as severe a Herx as I often have.

    The transfer factors, in my case, the TF C and TF 200, target specific pathogens. They train the immune system to recognize and kill those pathogens. Immunity isn't permanent, so one must pulse them for a couple of days every 4-6 weeks, following the initial 3 months of taking them every day. I look at TF's as oral vaccines which require booster "shots" every 6 weeks.

    I believe the TF's work at least as well as antibiotics and antiviral drugs without the risks and side effects. The only side effect is the immune response and Herxing, which can be harsh. There is no easy way to get rid of the millions of bacteria and viruses which can infect our bodies. It has to get worse before it gets better. The Herxing puts me out of commission for a couple of days every 6 weeks, which isn't bad considering how effective they are. The Herxing is evidence to me that the TF's have effected a big killoff of pathogens and I always feel so much better afterward with them gone.

    I post these updates because we have so many new members who may not be aware of our being prone to chronic stealth infections nor the treatment options. There is a lot of info on TF's at the Store here. Web searches also turn up a lot of info on them.

    Love, Mikie
    [This Message was Edited on 06/01/2006]
  2. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    For any newcomers who are interested in the TF's.

    Love, Mikie
  3. intensemom

    intensemom New Member

    HI! Thanks for the update. I'm very interested in using TF. Just one question...you use TF in addition to antibiotics(Doxy)?

    Thanks,
    Tracy
  4. TwinMa

    TwinMa New Member

    to BUILD your immune system?

    You say you get nasty headaches and bad diarrhea. Couldn't that just be your body reacting poorly to the transfer factors themselves? Like an allergic reaction? Or a rejection of the TF's?

    I know you have said you think it is die-off and that the diarrhea is a sign that lots of bacteria/viruses are getting killed off, and your body is trying to get rid of it all. But how do you know?

    I have bought TF's and haven't tried them yet. I've been too afraid of the almost certain herx-from-hell. If I go there, I'd like to be sure it's worth the price.

    Help me understand.
    [This Message was Edited on 06/01/2006]
  5. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    Tracy, there is now a TF for mycoplasmas but I didn't know about it or it wasn't available when I started the Doxy. Chances are I would have taken the Doxy first just to get rid of as many of the bacteria as possible. To answer your question, I only take the Doxy now if I feel the mycoplasmas have reactivated. By the time I started the TF's, I was through taking the Doxy on a regular basis. I now only pulse the TF's for a couple of days every 6 weeks. Some docs say people can take the TF's with antivirals but I don't think it's a good idea. I would take the AV's first and then switch to the TF's to get the viral load down before starting to train the immune system. Just my opinion. The TF's produce very strong immune reactions and Herxing. I would likely do the same with the Doxy--take it first for six months and then switch to the mycoplasma TF. The mycoplasma TF is sold through ProHealth on its website for physicians and one must be a physician to order it.

    TwinMa, that is an excellent question. The reason I know that the TF's are working is because I've Herxed sooooo many times from the Doxycycline and antivirals that I recognize it when it happens. When one has been on Doxy for 2 1/2 years and experienced the symptoms of Herxing, there is no doubt when Herxing occurs. Timing is another clue. I Herx within 3-7 days after pulsing the TF's. I don't mean to be indelicate here, but the foul odor of the diarrhea is like nothing else. It smells of death. My sweat smells horrible too.

    TF's, unlike ABX and AV's, train the immune system to recognize pathogens. That is why the TF's produce such an immune response. It's like the immune system wakes up and realizes the body is infected. That results in symptoms like when has the flu. This reaction can go on quite a while. The TF's should be taken regularly for three months before pulsing them. The immune reaction is so strong that I could only tolerate sprinkling some of the powder inside the capsules under my tongue the first month. When I did Herx, it was a lulu!

    Long before I took the TF's, I was taking probiotics and colostrum. When I was pulsing the Doxy, my own immune system would go on a killing rampage on its own. It still does if I get around anyone with shingles. Obviously, my immune system is awake and aware. These chronic infections never really go away and because I've been infected for so long, I will have to be vigilant for the rest of my life. I still keep the Doxy and an AV on hand because even with the progress I've made, if I get sick with something else, my infections can try to reactivate and it is too much for my immune system to handle on its own.

    I've had allergic reactions to meds and they are nothing like the immune response and Herxing. It's now been 4 years since I first started the Doxy and then went on to AV's, TF's, and Heparin (which also causes an immune response and Herxing). I call myself the Herxing Queen because I've been at it so long and Herxed so many times.

    Good luck to everyone who decides to try the TF's. My pain doc suggested them to me early on but I didn't try them for several years. The idea came from an M.D. who graduated from the Harvard Medical School and my doc thought the TF's were one of the most promising treatments for our illnesses. They are safe and do produce results. Of course, we are all different. They may not work for everyone.

    Love, Mikie

  6. Tantallon

    Tantallon New Member

    Thanks for posting this Mikie, it's something I always forget about.

    Hope the herx stops soon.

    Cheers,
    Sue
  7. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    The diarrhea stopped today and I'm feeling tired but better. I did manage to color my hair, shower, and get myself decent enough to go to the grocery store. That just about wiped me out for the day.

    I'm hoping Tracy and TwinMa get a chance to see my response to their posts.

    Love, Mikie
  8. TwinMa

    TwinMa New Member

    I really appreciate your thoughtful response.

    The transfer factors sound like very powerful tools. I guess you never get "something for nothing" and the price the TF's extract is the big herx.

    You have said you need to start with 3 months of TF's and then pulse them every 6 weeks. When you did the initial 3 months, did you feel the herx effect every day of that 3 months? Did it vary day to day? Could you still function?

    I have high EBV and CMV titers. I took Acyclovir for 3 months and recently stopped. I feel like now would be a good time to start the TF's, but I don't want to blow my whole summer by going through daily herxing.

    I work full time and have 11 y.o. twin daughters that are out of school for the summer.

    Do you have any thoughts on this? Does everyone who takes TF's have similar reactions to yours?

    I guess I could go the route you did and start with very tiny amounts and see how I do.

    Mikie, thank you so much for sharing your experience and knowledge. You and so many others on this board are lifesavers!
  9. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    What I did go through almost every day the first month was the immune response, even though I was just sprinkling some of the contents under my tongue. By the second month, though, I was starting to feel better. It was about this time that I would occassionally Herx after a big killoff. I was only Herxing about once ever six weeks. Six weeks seems to be a pattern of killoff for me.

    From reading the posts on the TF Board here, I realize that not everyone reacts to the TF's exactly as I did. My guess is that you would feel some immune response because the TF expose the immune system to the transfer info which is how the immune system recognizes the viruses. Since you have probably gotten the viral load down significantly, the Herxing may not be as bad. I Herx hard and fast and my system dumps (no pun intended :) the toxins out quickly. The Herxing lasts just 24-48 hrs.

    TF C and TF 100 each targets the EBV and CMV. TF C also targets Lyme, Chlamydia, and the B strain of HHV-6. I've never understood this last one. The B strain isn't the one which makes us sick. It's the A strain. TF 200 targets both strains. I take TF C and TF 200. PH no longer sells the TF 200 under that name. When I have to replace it, I'll have to ask which TF has taken its place.

    Yes, the TF's are, in my estimation, a really wonderful way to deal with the infections. The good news is that one can open the capsules and go at one's own speed with them. The first month or so can be a bit bumpy but if one hangs in there, the rewards can be great. Yes, we do pay a price when we start to kill off our chronic infections but I believe we pay a much higher price if we continue to let them thrive unfettered inside our bodies.

    Good luck to you in clearing up your viral infections.

    Love, Mikie
  10. TwinMa

    TwinMa New Member

    The TF 100 is supposed to target EBV and CMV, and that is why I bought that one.

    I am a bit concerned about the herx I will probably experience when I start. Actually, I guess it will be immune response, then herx.

    I don't sweat, and since that is one of the hallmarks of the herx, I wonder how I will be affected? Maybe the diarrhea will be more severe?

    Do you know others who take TF's and don't sweat? How are they affected?
  11. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    If you asked on the TF Board, someone there may know. That board doesn't get much traffic, though. Good luck.

    Drink lots and lots of water. Start out slowly on the TF's so that the immune response doesn't make you too sick. You can always up the dose.

    Love, Mikie
  12. Pianowoman

    Pianowoman New Member

    I've just taken mine for a couple of days and I feel like I have the flu. I've always gotten severe pain, fatigue ahd headaches. Early on I had a sore throat as well.

    I took the Immune Transfer C for 3 months and had these symptoms early on but after a while,the symptoms pretty much disappeared. I've never had the severe diarrhea that Mikie talks about so we seem to have different reactions.

    I did feel that I improved as a result of the TF. I am still wondering if I should do a course of the Formula 560 since I have HHV-6. I have only covered the B strain so far. Since I'm feeling better, I wonder if it's necessary but it maybe the best choice in the long term.

    Good luck to those who are starting out. I believe it's worth the effort.
    Kathy
  13. TwinMa

    TwinMa New Member

    Is it different than the Immune Tranfer C that you took for 3 months? Do you have other viruses besides the HHV-6?

    I know you have spoken of headache problems in past posts(something we definitely have in common!). Do the TF's make them significantly worse, or just more of the same?

    How much TF did you start out with? Mikie says she opened a capsule and sprinkled some under her tongue. The bottle I have of Transfer System 100 says to take 1-3 capsules per day.

    How long did the really crummy symptoms last for you? From your past posts, I think we have many common health issues.

    Thanks you for sharing!

  14. Pianowoman

    Pianowoman New Member

    I am still taking the Immune Transfer C. I have EBV, CMV and HHV-6. I have not had PCR testing , just the regular tets. The Immune transfer C covers all of these except the A strain of HHV-6. Unless one has had the more sensitive tests, it's hard to know which strain one has.

    Anyway, on to symptoms. I would say that my headaches were not any worse.They were the same type of headache I usually get and responded to medication. The increased pain and headaches only lasted a day or so but the fatigue, achyness and sore throat went on for a while.It's actually hard to remember how long; no longer than a month for sure. I started with about 1/2 a capsule after reading about Mikie's experience. I was able to increase to a whole capsule within a couple of weeks. It may have something to do with one's viral load but I'm not sure. With the Immune T.C. one capsule is all that you take.

    Now, I still react when I pulse them, so clearly the need is there to continue the treatment. I should mention, also, that I have taken natural anti-virals, prescribed by my ND, both before and after the 3 months of TF. I'm not taking any anti-virals right now.

    I was a little scared to start this but felt I needed to do more. This made sense and my Doctor was supportive. It's becoming more clear to me that an infectious source is part of the picture.

    Kathy.

  15. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    The A strain is the more virulent and difficult to get rid of. That's why I also took the TF 200.

    The Herxing and diarrhea depend on how efficiently one's body is at excreting the dead pathogens and whether one's treatment produces a massive killoff.

    I will also continue to pulse the TF's because I Herx each time I pulse them. It's Dr. Brewer who suggests taking them for three months and then pulsing them every 4-6 weeks.

    I am a big fan of the TF's. I'm so glad I found out about them.

    Love, Mikie
  16. Pianowoman

    Pianowoman New Member

    As I understand it, TF essentials is a general immune booster. Mikie has described it as a 'souped up colostrum'. It does not target specific pathogens but I think it is a very good product to boost immune funtion. I have read of people who start with the essentials and move to a more specific one later. Certainly, I would keep taking it and you may tolerate the others a little better down the road.

    There is a transfer factor board that has lots of good informtion,although it doesn't get used that much.

    Good luck and keep us posted.
    Kathy.
  17. Pianowoman

    Pianowoman New Member

    Thanks for replying about the TF 200. This has been in my mind for a while; I really knew that I hadn't done all I could for the HHV-6. You have reinforced this for me. It wil be in the budget for my next PH order!

    My responses are different and perhaps my body is not yet as efficient at excreting the pathogens.
    I am feeling better today after a couple of bad days from pulsing the Immune TF C.

    Thanks again
    Kathy.
  18. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    We are all different and that includes how we react to the TF's. Over on the board, when I began, there were people who felt immediately better on them. I was sicker 'n a dog. Still, I do believe in the concept and my own experience has made a believer out of me.

    For anyone with mycoplasma infections, PH sells a TF for it on a different website for physicians and one must be a physician to order it. Either it was not around or I didn't know about it when I took the Doxycycline for my mycoplasma infection. I can't complain as the Doxy worked really, really well for me, just as Dr. Nicolson said it would. It would be interesting to know what he thinks about PH's mycoplasma TF.

    Love, Mikie