The truth about Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth (Simplified)

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by RadioFM, Feb 18, 2015.

  1. RadioFM

    RadioFM Active Member

    SIBO- Small Intestine Bacterial Overgrowth (Start here)

    Intestinal bacterial overgrowth (SIBO) can be the underlying cause for many of the symptoms associated with Fibromyalgia. These bacteria can be aerobic as well as anaerobic. SIBO can lead to a overproduction of toxins such as D-lactic acid, Hydrogen sulfide, Acetaldehyde and Endotoxins. These toxins can impair the brain causing fatigue and mitochondrial damage. Please review the videos below:

    The truth about Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth (SIBO)

    See more great videos here: (Just In Health)

    Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth: Signs, Symptoms, and Testing

    Last edited: Feb 24, 2015
  2. ljimbo42

    ljimbo42 Active Member

    Radio- You may very well have this posted somewhere else, but I thought I would post it here anyway.

    What stood out most to me in this study was that 42 out of 42 people (100%) with fibromyalgia tested positive for small intestinal bacterial overgrowth (SIBO) as determined by lactulose breath test.

    Only 3 out 15 (20%) of people without fibro or ibs tested positive for SIBO. 93 out of 111 (84%) of people with ibs tested positive for SIBO.

    The degree of abnormality on breath test, and therefore the degree of SIBO, also correlated with the degree of fibro pain. Fascinating stuff! I believe SIBO is a major cause of leaky gut and of course all the symptoms that come with it. I firmly believe that is what caused my leaky gut.
    RadioFM likes this.
  3. RadioFM

    RadioFM Active Member

    Small intestine bacterial overgrowth (SIBO, dysbiosis) causes Fibromyalgia (corrected version)

    Hey, nice post -The first step may be to test for SIBO and treat and see if symptoms improve. I do want to add that there are many possible contributing factor to consider when evaluating gut dysfunction methodology. I feel SIBO may only be one seed in the pathogenesis of disease we see today.

    The next question I would ask:

    What made you susceptible to acquiring SIBO in the first place?

    We need Hydrochloric acid and bile acids to maintain a proper balance of gut flora, as well as liberate key nutrients such as B-12.

    See more below:

    "Risk factors and causes (Small intestinal bacterial overgrowth - Wikipedia)"

    "The ileocecal valve prevents reflux of bacteria from the colon into the small bowel. Resection of the valve can lead to bacterial overgrowth"

    "Certain patients are more predisposed to the development of bacterial overgrowth because of certain risk factors. These factors can be grouped into three categories: (1) disordered motility or movement of the small bowel or anatomical changes that lead to stasis, (2) disorders in the immune system and (3) conditions that cause more bacteria from the colon to enter the small bowel.[1]"

    "Problems with motility may either be diffuse, or localized to particular areas. Diseases like scleroderma[13] and possibly celiac diseasecause diffuse slowing of the bowel, leading to increased bacterial concentrations. More commonly, the small bowel may have anatomical problems, such as out-pouchings known as diverticula that can cause bacteria to accumulate. After surgery involving the stomach and duodenum (most commonly with Billroth II antrectomy), a blind loop may be formed, leading to stasis of flow of intestinal contents. This can cause overgrowth, and is termed blind loop syndrome."

    "Proton pump inhibitors, a class of medication that are used to reduce stomach acid, is associated with an increased risk of developing SIBO."

    Helicobacter Pylori and Low Stomach Acid (Please review link)

    "In recent years, several proposed links between SIBO and other disorders have been made. However, the usual methodology of these studies involves the use of breath testing as an indirect investigation for SIBO. Breath testing has been criticized by some authors for being an imperfect test for SIBO, with multiple known false positives.[23]"

    See more here: Everything You Need to Know About SIBO (Please Review)

    Next Question:
    Could having intestinal permeability lead to trans-location of endotoxins through out the body inducing macrophage activation?

    I feel Dysbiosis & Leaky gut are part of a bigger problem as many of these infections can become mufti-systemic. Aka- Molecular mimicry

    #28 - Chronic Inflammation - Introduction, Macrophages

    Last edited: Feb 24, 2015
  4. ljimbo42

    ljimbo42 Active Member

    Hey Radio- I get confused sometimes about what SIBO really is. Some say it's any overgrowth of bacteria in the small intestine, where there should be a very low concentration only. Some say it is a migration of bacteria from the colon to the small intestine.
    I had a CDSA (comprehensive digestive stool analysis) done a while back. It showed severe dysbiosis (18 on a scale from 1-20). It also showed a pathogenic overgrowth of Pseudomonas Aeruginosa.

    Pseudomonas Aeruginosa is a highly anti-biotic resistant gram negative bacteria. I am pretty sure what caused my dysbyosis and overgrowth of P. aeruginosa was antibiotics and tons of sugar.

    I use to get bronchitis once or twice a year from the age of thirteen to about 33. I have done at least 20-25 courses of antibiotics in my life. Add to that an extremely high sugar diet, and tons of stress and you got the recipe for dysbiosis and leaky gut.

    I have been following Jordan Reasoner and Steve Wright for a while now. They have a lot of good info. I think you are right about the possibility of many contributing factors.

    I think that is a big reason why there hasn't been a single cause of cfs/fm found and why so many studies are unsuccessful. CFS/FM patients need to be treated on an individual level, and it can take 1-2 years or longer to find the causes and treat them.

    How can successful studies be done when each patient needs a different protocol to a greater or lesser degree? How could they prove what protocols work and what protocols don't, when so many need to be different?

    I think it's a tall order because there are many different underlying causes. Say one out 10 people has a high mercury load contributing to cfs/fm and need chelation, but the other 90% don't. That is just one of many examples.

    CFS/FM cannot be put into a box. Having said that, I think dysbiosis and leaky gut are EXTREMELY common in cfs/fm. Do you have a history of antibiotic use and/or a high sugar diet?
  5. RadioFM

    RadioFM Active Member

    Hey Jim,
    That was a well thought out depiction of the complexities that many of us face trying to understand our own individual disease manifestations. I battled chronic ear infections as a kid and was assaulted with antibiotics at a very young age. I do see the validity in your assessment and agree with you on many levels.

    Maybe I can help you...

    Please elaborate more on the current state of your illness (past diagnosis) and list all supplements/medications as well as a simple over-view of what you eat everyday. I try and give you my thoughts on what worked for me.
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2015
  6. ljimbo42

    ljimbo42 Active Member

    Radio- My diet is really good now. 99% sugar free, gluten and dairy free, low carb. (70-80 grams a day). My biggest stumbling block has been die off from intestinal pathogens. Which has dramatically slowed my ability to clear the dysbiosis and leaky gut.

    All my symptoms would flare 2-3 days after taking any kind of an antibiotic supplement. Fatigue,headache,aches and pains,brain fog,depression,anxiety etc. would all worsen. Even cutting back on carbs gave me serious die off, no doubt from starving out the pathogens in my gut.

    I think I might have come to a place in recovery though were the die off has greatly lessened (fingers crossed). I have been taking garlic for the last week or so and have not noticed any die off. I started with one capsule, then went up to two and am continuing to feel better.

    I read a study that says garlic inhibits quorum sensing in pseudomonas aeruginosa and therefore helps to inhibit biofilms. Making them more susceptible to antibiotic supplements. So I'm hoping the garlic will help me clear the P. aeruginosa and therefore the leaky gut.

    Are you taking any kind of antibiotic supplements for dysbiosis?
  7. RadioFM

    RadioFM Active Member

    "Radio- My diet is really good now. 99% sugar free, gluten and dairy free, low carb. (70-80 grams a day). My biggest stumbling block has been die off from intestinal pathogens. Which has dramatically slowed my ability to clear the dysbiosis and leaky gut."

    You may need to lower your carbohydrates down even more if you want to take advantage of a fat adapted low carb lifestyle. The Ketogenic diet nutritional intervention I initiated dynamically controls my dysbiosis symptoms. The key for me was to change the environment of the gut in order to maintain the symbiotic balance needed. This is a-long term approach and only part of my over all strategy. Also, you would need to test your blood for Ketone bodies to know if you are actually fueling your body with fats. This is not a guessing game.

    The experts I have researched are saying people fail on low carb nutritional interventions because they are eating to much protein and not enough healthy fats.

    • We must consume low to moderate protein on a low carb-high fat diet.
    • We must consume 75-85% healthy fats to enter into ketosis.
    • We must measures ketones utilizing a glucometer as may have metabolic damage that will need more protein/carb restriction to become keto adapted.

    Eating a low carb diet and consume to much protein can very be problematic -because the body will turn the excess proteins in to glucose through Gluconeogenesis if you go over your limit.

    This is why the old Atkins diet was not successful long term. They did not measure Blood Ketone to compensate for metabolic issues that can be difficult to over come in anyone's healing journey.

    See more here: Nutritional Ketogenic Diet (Nutritional Healing Strategies Beyond The Paleo Diet)

    I'm am also a hard core Functional Medicine advocate and I know you live in the US, so I would suggest you find a FM doctor to help customizing a gut healing protocol for you. Many people make the mistake of not having the support of a well informed doctor that may be needed. You sound like you have a good understanding these issues. But, I know many who have tried addressing gut dysfunctions using many different protocols only to fail as their diet was still fueling there infections.

    See more below:

    We need to bring awareness to key issues and important topics that may help others find answers to the health challenges of today. See more here: The Gift of Recovery (Research & Awareness)

    The information in this thread is not intended to be medical advice. The information is meant to inspire and motivate you to make your own decisions surrounding your health care and dietary needs. It is intended for educational and informational purposes only.
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2015
  8. ljimbo42

    ljimbo42 Active Member

    Yes, I might need to go even lower on the carbs and I am open to that if I need to. Rate now I am going up on the antibiotic supplements. So I don't want to change anything else so I can tell how I respond to the increase in supplements.

    I have heard the same thing from a number of functional medicine doctors and it makes sense to me. 75-85% fat sounds like a lot, but when you consider all the different kinds of healthy fats it's not. Butter, coconut oil is fantastic, olive oil,pumpkin seed oil, avocado oil etc. etc.

    I'm not in a place financially to find a functional medicine doctor. I also do not have a car rate now. If I hit a wall though and can't continue to recover, you can bet I will do whatever it takes.

    I see that you have written many times in your posts "never give up." That is the one thing I have not done for 8 years. Now that I have a good taste of what is possible, I won't give up for any reason!

    You are not saying that you are treating dysbiosis with diet alone are you?
  9. RadioFM

    RadioFM Active Member


    "You are not saying that you are treating dysbiosis with diet alone are you?"

    I am saying you may need to work with a well informed health care provider. But, if you have no other options and limited resources. A GMO Free Ketogenic diet nutritional intervention may be a good place to start. I have provide you with many key links to help get you started.

    The information on this thread is not intended to be medical advice. The information is meant to inspire and motivate you to make your own decisions surrounding your health care and dietary needs. It is intended for educational and informational purposes only.
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2015
  10. RadioFM

    RadioFM Active Member

    MTHFR and SIBO Part I - How Gut Infections Cause Methylation Problems
  11. RadioFM

    RadioFM Active Member

  12. RadioFM

    RadioFM Active Member

  13. stiwix

    stiwix Member

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