thyroid antibodies....naturopathic treatment????

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by sydneysider, Jun 18, 2009.

  1. sydneysider

    sydneysider Member

    I have high thyroid antibodies, and am not currently on any treatment. My doctor is currently reviewing the situation. However, I'm considering if it's worth trying the naturopathic, or maybe integrative (wholeistic) treatments. Of course the big issue is the cost.

    Recently I spoke to a local naturopath who claims she can treat this, however I am concerned that she will want to go into many issues and treat the 'whole body', which would probably run into thousands of dollars.

    She is only a naturopath, and does not prescribe thyroid meds, hormones, etc.

    I just wandered if anyone else has taken the naturopathic route, and what treatment they received.

    I'd be very grateful for info.
  2. TeaBisqit

    TeaBisqit Member

    If you don't get thyroid hormone, you will just get worse like what happened to me. I ended up in the ER. The only thing that helps is thyroid hormone. Armor Thyroid is all natural, you should ask for it.

    I did treat this for years with Spirutein. It's blue sea algae filled with vitamins and minerals. You can attempt it, but I still ended up having to go on Armor.
  3. richvank

    richvank New Member

    Hi, sydneysider.

    For what it's worth, elevated thyroid antibodies (Hashimoto's thyroiditis) are very prevalent in CFS. According to the GD-MCB hypothesis for CFS, this is caused by glutathione depletion in the thyroid, which allows the hydrogen peroxide that the thyroid generates as part of its normal process of making thyroid hormones to attack proteins in the thyroid cells. The immune system then sees these damaged proteins as foreign, and it responds with an autoimmune attack on the thyroid.

    Supplying supplemental thyroid hormone may slow this process down, but in the long run, I believe that the solution is to get the glutathione level back up in the thyroid, to stop this damage process.

    We have a small amount of data that suggests that this occurs when treatment to lift the partial methylation cycle block is used, which allows the glutathione levels to be restored.

    I have written about this treatment on the board many times over the past two and a half years. I've also written about the Vitamin Diagnostics methylation panel, which I encourage people to get in order to find out whether the GD-MCB model fits their case. I think you will be able to find it if you are interested. If not, you can email me at richvank at aol dot com, and I will send you information about the test and the treatment.

    Best regards,

  4. SnooZQ

    SnooZQ New Member

    I've worked w/an ND. In my state they can & DO Rx T meds. Treatment did run to thousands, and I did decline many tests & treatments that could have easily quadrupled my costs.

    My experience with the ND was fairly successful. The biggest part of the success was getting T3 hormone supplementation, which is hard to get via MDs in my city.

    Whether or not one has thyroid hormone rxd depends on a broader understanding of your situation. Do you have Graves or Hashi ABs, or both? What are your levels of free hormones?

    If you have Graves' ABs and high levels of free thyroid hormones, you should ask for a referral to an endocrinologist.

    If you have Hashi ABs & frees in the low to normal range, some MDs (and NDs) will rx thyroid hormone. This may reduce the body's attack on the gland, esp. if Armour or T3 + T4 meds are prescribed.

    Selenium at 200 mcg/day or less, pref. as selenomethionine, may help reduce ABs. If you take a daily multi, check to see if it has selenium in it.

    Research has also shown that a gluten-free diet may help reduce thyroid ABs in some people.

    Iodine issues -- too low, too high -- can adversely impact T Abs.

    Selenium supplementation, GF diet, and iodine issues are relatively low-cost to research & implement on your own, if you so desire to do so. The first 2 were not mentioned to me by the ND -- nor any med doc, despite mainstream med research publication.

    A VERY common ND treatment for thyroid problems, regardless of type, is very high dose iodine supplementation. An "iodine loading test" is offered, where one consumes 1000s of times the RDA for iodine. Virtually everyone is found to be iodine deficient by the parameters of this test. I myself am a little leary of the science behind it. And for sure, anyone with elevated thyroid antibodies should go slowly where taking very high doses of iodine is recommended.

    MDs, NDs, & healers of all sorts do "treat" conditions. There's NEVER a guarantee of success, whether you are looking at conventional or alternative medicine.

    Best wishes.

    [This Message was Edited on 06/19/2009]
  5. sydneysider

    sydneysider Member

    Thankyou for such interesting and caring replies.

    I am suffering from hashimotoes. I also have some tiny chrystals in my thyroid. I saw an endochrinologist last year. He said the high antibodies, and the chrystals were a sign that I'd probably have a thyroid problem in the future. He said not to treat.......(i know that is a load of rubbish). Luckily my regular doctor doesn't know that I saw him. I got referred through another doctor.

    My regular doctor is finally taking things seriously since I told her about the antibodies. I had been nagging her for years to do more than TSH. It always comes back just under 3. Here in Australia where I live, normal range goes up to 4.5. (I know that 1. is healthy, and over 2,25 is really not healthy at all). I finally got antibody tests through a different doctor. My regular doctor has now ordered a thyroid panel. However, if she gives me meds it will only be synthetic T4, which I tried last year through the other doctor. All it did was make slightly more hair fall out than normal. Otherwise I felt exactly the same.

    I tried the desicated meds (equivalent of armour) some years ago. It also gave me no change in symptoms, even though I upped the dosage considerably. I did, however, only take it for5 weeks. I got it through an intergrative doc. At the time I thought it must all be a crock, and there must not be any thyroid extract in the pills. I did not go back to the doc. I realise now that was probably a mistake.

    I've had trouble deciding which way to turn. Maybe it's because of the horrible cognitive problems. I've suspected possible adrenal problems as well.

    After writing this post I did some googling, and noticed a hormone clinic in my city, which seems very familiar with thyroid and adrenal problems. I think I'll give them a call in the morning. Otherwise, intergrative might be my best option.

    After reading all your posts I can see that it would be a waste of time and money to bother about a naturopath.

    I was not aware that methylation also affected the thyroid. I have read some of the posts about this. I saw a list of the suppliments. I'm not sure if I would be able to get them.

    Unfortunately my cognitive problems made it impossible for me to actually understand what methylation is actually about.

    I was interested that one of the ingedients contained in one of the supplements was phosphylatleserine(sp?). This is a substnce used by naturopaths to lower cortisol levels. Except for pills with small quantaties, it can only be purchased here with a naturapath prescription. I read somewhere that this substance can make thyroid meds work better.

    The reason I was interested in this substance is because I have always suspected that I may have high cortisol levels.

    Anyhow, if I can get my head together, I'll give the methylation thing another look. I actually suffer from FM, not CFS. Is methylation helpful for both?

    For now I'll look into the hormone clinic, and I should be able to get both thyroid and adrenal panels. That should give me a better picture of what is going on. (and hopefully a combination of meds that work).

    Thanks again everyone for your much appreciated input.
  6. colinjn

    colinjn New Member

    Hi, I understand your concern about getting into a whole expensive routine. I was talking to a friend who's bill skyrocketed in no time. She finally had to quit, with a fridge full of who knows what! My naturopathic doctor, Dr Gallant works another way. He tries to find the cheapest effective alternative, which can sometimes be simple grocery store stuff. But he still feels that the key to a lot of these big problems is to get the body to heal itself rather than continually rely on some external remedy. A healed healthy patient is what he is aiming for, not a perpetual cash cow! I wish other health workers understood this. That said, we are probably the hardest people to treat because of our complicated disease. He is constantly researching to find an effective solution. Of course that is good for him as well, because it keeps him from being locked in one way of thinking.
  7. sydneysider

    sydneysider Member

    My TSH has just shot up over 6. My doc wants to put me on the synthetic T4.,but I have told her that I am going alternative as I want an optimal result. I told her that I suspected an adrenal problem as well. She told me that my blood pressure and pulse should be down, yet they were up. This seemed to support my adrenal theory. All she could do was raise her eyebrows.

    I'm seeing the naturopath next week. My pulse is still racing. Guess I'll just have to take it easy.

    Just wandering, how do you chelate metals?(yes, we do have flouride and chloride) How much Vit C does it take to clean off iodine receptors?
  8. gapsych

    gapsych New Member

    This is from Associated Content- health and well being.

    "Thyroid hormone is necessary for the proper function of all systems of the body. Research has linked low thyroid & irregular heart beat, as well as a slow heart rate, with weaker coronary contractions and reduced output. In other patients, an abnormally fast heart rhythm (tachycardia) has been noted, which improved with thyroid hormone replacement therapy. In other words, if left untreated, hypothyroidism can cause serious health problems."

    You have to be careful with Thyroid abnormalities. If you suspect you have adrenal problems, both can be treated by a Endocrinologist who has had years of training beyond medical school studying the endocrine system.

    Chelating is a controversial method and has caused complications, even death.

    If you are waiting for these other treatments to take effect you could be wasting valuable time getting the correct treatment for your thyroid which can lead to other complications, especially the heart.

    I can't believe I am saying this but even Armour would be better than the other suggestions. Just remember that Armor does not give you the same ratio of T4 and T3 as pigs have different ratios than humans. Synthroid, do help your body convert T4 to T3 and if this does not work you will get T3. So in this case the Synthroid is more natural than Armour in the sense that it provides the ratio of T4/T3 seen in humans.

    Whatever you choose, keep this information in mind.

    Your rapid heartbeat and high blood pressure is a concern that needs to be looked into ASAP.

    Please take care.


    ETA No doctor should run only a TSH. You need the other tests. An endocrinologist would be more likely to do this for you. Most doctor's in the US do more than the TSH which is supposed to be a screening.

    [This Message was Edited on 06/27/2009]
  9. sydneysider

    sydneysider Member

    I saw an endo last year. He said that they do not worry about antibodies. I also told him that I have small chrystals in my thyroid that showed up on an ultrasound(the ultrasound report considered this 'normal'). He told me that both these things ment that I was likely to have a thyroid problem in the future.

    His advice was not to treat. Go figure.

    I probably haven't got time to shop for a 'good' endo(although it's a thought). None of the doctors I've seen are interested in adrenal testing.

    I have made an appointment at the naturopathic clinic for this week, and stressed that I would need thyroid hormones. They claim that they can get me a script for thyroid hormones. I might also make an appointment with an integrative doc as a back up in case I need it. Only the integrative doctors (sometimes called wholeistic), and perhaps hormone clinics, can prescribe the equivalent of armour.

    The doctors here seem to do only TSH as a screen. They've been testing my TSH for years. It's always been close to 3. Of course they consider that normal. I had to ask for the antibody test. It's strange that antibodies are not done along with TSH as a screen.
  10. Naturopathic

    Naturopathic Member

    You may consult with Marisa Camilleri who is one of the most trusted Nutritionists Melbourne.