To Pat Palmer

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by Mikie, May 28, 2003.

  1. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    Dear Pat,

    I was just wondering where you found the article on Tagamet for Herpes viruses. I bought some today and took one tablet. About an hour later, all hell broke loose in my stomach. I was cramping and had diarrhea and was chilling. This is very similar to the Herx reaction I had to the Famvir, although I can't imagine I would Herx that fast. I'm kind of afraid of taking more of it, but if it works like the Famvir, it would be great.

    I would like to print out your article for my doc, but I need to know the origin of it. Thanks.

    Love, Mikie
  2. PatPalmer

    PatPalmer New Member

    Wow, thats hell of a quick reaction, I really hope it`s a good sign, that would be enough for me to think twice about taking another one too. Be interesting to see what the doc thinks too, please let us know how you get on.

    It`s the "Life Extension Magazine"

    Love Pat.

    PS. If you have a problem getting through, let me know. I`m off to bed soon so try now if you can.

    [This Message was Edited on 05/28/2003]
  3. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    I just got back from Yahoo where I found the article on the LE website and printed it off. Thanks for your swift answer.

    I think I will wait until in the morning to take another. If this keeps up, I don't think I will take anymore, at least not til I get home. I'm going to be on the road on Sat. and this is not a good thing to have when traveling.

    There were a lot of articles where the Cimetidine was mentioned in treating Herpes viruses but none as good as this one. Thanks again.

    BTW, as I perused some of the articles, I noted that some researchers are theorizing that that Herpes-family viruses cause MS and lymphoma. Yikes!

    Love, Mikie
  4. PatPalmer

    PatPalmer New Member

    I have read this too, makes you feel very insecure, and desperate to treat this virus.

    I hope and prey the Tagamet works for you, it`s a rip off society when you have to pay a fortune for good health, "Famvir" really have you by the short & curlies otherwise!

    How long did it take for a reaction with Famvir, and did you herx as badly too with the second Famvir tablet?

    Love Pat.

  5. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    As I recall, it was about three days into the Famvir before I Herxed. The thing is that today was identical to the Famvir Herx with the chills in the torso and diarrhea that could peel the paint off the wall from the fumes (sorry to be so graphic :)

    My Herxes with the Doxy are the same except with that, I get a burning sensation in the torso. Strange!

    I almost never, ever have diarrhea as constipation is my normal situation. The only time I do have it is when I am Herxing, so my guess is that the Tagamet may just have worked very fast. Of course, with stealth pathogens, a lot depends on when they are in the bloodstream. Also, having taken the Famvir previously, I may have "awakened" the virus(es) to come out and fight. In rare cases, the viruses mutate to avoid being killed. Antiviral treatments actually cause the viruses to produce a substance which kills them. They mutate to avoid this suicidal death.

    Viruses are so much smarter than bacteria that they will go through all kinds of tricks to stay alive. Whatever treatment I end up using, I will pulse as that usually doesn't give the viruses time to mutate. I believe in the end, we will discover that viruses are responsible for many, if not most, of our illnesses, including heart disease and cancer.

    Antiviral treatments may make me feel so much better because the mycoplasmas which make us so sick were bioengineered as biological weapons and have some viral characteristics. The antiviral meds make help wipe out the bacteria too. Hmmmm, I have pulsed off my Doxy, but I was on it when I took the Famvir. Perhaps I should go back on the Doxy when trying this. That is a powerful and agressive treatment package.

    Thanks again.

    Love, Mikie
  6. healing

    healing New Member

    please describe what you mean by pulsing....I think I know but want to be sure. thanks.
  7. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    I did read the insert and none of the drugs are ones that I am taking. I have decided to wait til I return home to continue trying the Tagamet or get another round of Famvir from my doc. I can't be having diarrhea on the road. I appreciate your concern. I did go online and read a number of articles on the Cimetidine and the warnings about interactions were all the same as the insert. Now, I agree that this may not be all the bad possible interactions. Again, thanks.

    Love, Mikie
  8. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    Pulsing medications just means taking them off and on. When dealing with pathogens, you don't want them to mutate into a drug-resistant strain. Pulsing cuts down on this possibility. When you go off the drug, it tricks the pathogen into thinking all is hunky dory and it stops it mutating activities. While their guard is down, you kill them off and then stop taking the drug again for a while. It's warfare logistics. When all we humans have killed each other off, the pathogens will most likely survive as they are better equipped through eons of evolution.

    Love, Mikie
  9. healing

    healing New Member

    I appreciate the clarification. Do you take the ABX for what would be a full course -- say, 10 days? -- and then stop, or do you go longer? I'm getting ready to start a course of penicillen this summer and would like to help its effectiveness.
  10. PatPalmer

    PatPalmer New Member

    Butting in here, but as you need ABX, have you thought about trying a natural one? - These don`t kill off the good guys which you need to replace with probiotics on ABX.

    Olive Leaf Extract, Oil of Oregano, Grapefruit Seed Extract and fresh garlic are all just as good, if not better as they will kill off any viral/bacterial/yeast or parasitical growth you may well have at the same time too, - and it`s cheaper.

    I prefer something that`s an all rounder, as it`s common to have more than one of these if you have CFS/FM.

    Love Pat.

  11. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    The protocol for the ABX for mycoplasmas is six weeks on and two weeks off. My doc told me to not wait the two weeks if my symptoms returned before than but to go back on them until I could go two weeks without symptoms.

    I am assuming that the penicillin is not for mycoplasmas as that family of drugs has not effect on mycoplasmas. Good luck with your treatment.

    Love, Mikie
  12. healing

    healing New Member

    Thanks for your responses. I do already take Grapefruit Seed Extract for candida and other natural remedies to support my immune system and provide relief from FMS pain and acid reflux. I will be going on penicillen at some point for strep, which (incredibly, at least to me) I have repeatedly had vaginally but never as a sore throat. My rheumy thinks it may be the source of my reactive arthritis, says I have a strep "pattern" to my inflammation. I'm expecting to start sometime this summer. Rheumy currently has me on Enbrel to try to calm down the inflammation quickly, fearing permanent tissue damage otherwise.
  13. PatPalmer

    PatPalmer New Member

    Mikie, did you continue with the Tagamet?
    I was concerned about the stomach pains on the first day, were you able to find out what caused that reaction?

    Healing, I`m surprised the Grapefruit Seed Extract hasn`t helped with the Strep, how long have you been on it and how much are you taking?

    Wondered if OLE may perhaps be worth trying instead?

    Both these are natural antibiotics and I thought would be as good as the penicillin, maybe i`m wrong?

    Love Pat.

    PS:- Found this on my search engine, thought you should read it....

    Food and Drug Administration
    U.S. Department of Health and Human Services
    Public Health Service 5600 Fishers Lane Rockville, MD 20857

    T99-22 Print Media: 301-827-6242
    May 12, 1999 Broadcast Media: 301-827-3434
    Consumer Inquiries: 888-INFO-FDA

    FDA is advising physicians about new safety concerns regarding the use of etanercept (Enbrel), a product recently approved to treat moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis (RA). New postmarketing reports indicate that certain patients receiving Enbrel have developed serious infections, including sepsis, and that several of these patients have died from their infections.

    The Immunex Corporation, Seattle, Wash., the co-sponsor of Enbrel, (along with Wyeth-Ayerst Laboratories, Philadelphia, Pa.) is sending a "Dear Doctor" letter alerting physicians to the new safety concerns, reminding them of the current label warning and informing them that the labeling for Enbrel has been revised to incorporate the new information.

    Enbrel was approved last November with labeling that says that it should not be given to patients with sepsis and should be discontinued if a patient develops a serious infection.

    Because of new information obtained from adverse reaction reports to FDA and Immunex, the warning related to sepsis has been expanded to include patients with any active infection, including chronic or localized infections.

    In addition, it is now recommended that patients who develop a new infection while being treated with Enbrel be monitored closely.

    It is further recommended that physicians be cautious when considering prescribing Enbrel to patients with a history of recurring infections or with underlying conditions such as advanced or poorly controlled diabetes that may predispose them to infections.

    Since the drug's approval, 30 of the estimated 25,000 patients treated with Enbrel are reported to have developed serious infections, including sepsis. Six of these patients died within two to sixteen weeks after starting treatment. A number of these RA patients had a history of chronic or recurrent infections, pre-existing infections, diabetes, or other conditions that predisposed them to infections.

    Even though many RA patients are predisposed to infections, significant concerns remain that Enbrel may contribute to the occurrence of serious infections. Many of the infections occurred shortly after initiation of Enbrel therapy. In addition, a controlled study of Enbrel to treat sepsis showed a higher incidence of death in patients treated with Enbrel. Moreover, Enbrel inhibits the action of tumor necrosis factor, a component of the body's natural defenses against serious infection.

    To date, controlled clinical studies have not shown an increase in serious infections in patients receiving Enbrel. FDA has requested that Immunex perform additional studies to assess the risk of serious infection related to Enbrel therapy.

    At this time, without further controlled clinical studies, it is unclear whether Enbrel truly is the cause of the serious infections in patients with RA. However, as a precautionary measure, physicians should consider these new reports when assessing the risks and benefits of Enbrel.

    Enbrel, a genetically engineered protein, was approved to treat patients with symptoms of moderate to severe, active RA who have not responded well to other treatments. It can significantly reduce pain and swollen joints in people disabled with RA, an autoimmune disease that affects more than two million Americans.

    FDA requests that all cases of serious infection or sepsis occurring in patients taking Enbrel be reported to the agency through MEDWATCH. Reports to Medwatch should be made by phone to 1-800-FDA-1088, by fax to 1-800-FDA-0178, by mail to MEDWATCH, HF-2, FDA, 5600 Fishers Lane, Rockville, MD 20857. Health professionals may also contact Wyeth-Ayerst Product Information at 1-800-934-5556 or Immunex Professional Services at 1-800-IMMUNEX (1-800-466-8639).

    [This Message was Edited on 06/04/2003]
  14. healing

    healing New Member

    Sorry, Pat - I missed your response! I am takng 125 mg twice a day of Grapefruit Seed Extract. I will try to remember to ask my doc who prescribes the natural remedies about the OLE -- but I won't see him until August. Wonder if I can take it together with penicillen to enhance the effect?

    I am very much aware of the concerns about Enbrel and am being closely watched by two sets of doctors. If I have the slightest little cough, persistent bruise, etc., I have strict orders to make an emergency call to my rheumy. My liver is being monitored. The good thing about Enbrel, for me, is that it bypasses my digestive tract which is still acting up post gallbladder surgery several months ago.

    In any case, the Enbrel does not appear to be working. I have been having a bad flare for the past 3 weeks, and the inflammation swelling is as bad as ever. Told my rheumy I want to start the penicillen ASAP, so probably will in about 3 weeks (after vacation).

    Thanks for all the info -
  15. PatPalmer

    PatPalmer New Member

    Be pointless taking OLE and penicillen at the same time because they`re both antibiotics.

    How about trying the OLE instead of GSE?

    Have you done a search to see if anyone here has had success with penicillen for strep?

    Love Pat.
  16. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    The Tagamet's a no go. When I take it, I get horrible indigestion. Guess it doesn't leave enough stomach acid for me to digest my food.

    BTW, colloidal silver is an antibiotic, antiviral, and antifungal supplement. I just don't believe it is strong enough on its own to rid the body of stealth pathogens. Neither is my zapper. I think when pathogens are in the bloodstream, these things can get to them, but stealth pathogens live inside the cells until they kill their host cells. Dr. Nicolson does recommend the colloidal silver to help the ABX do their job.

    Love, Mikie
  17. skychomper

    skychomper Member

    I was having a flare a year ago, and took tagament for about two weeks total, not very consistently, but a day here a day there, and my flare was alot more manageable and it cut down the worst of it all to about a month. I also had stomach pains from it, but was worth it for me. It was an acute flare, whereas my latest one came on slowly, and then turned acute again.
    maybe I should try it again, but looking for more long term help. my mom who recommended it to me, said not to take it for too long.

  18. healing

    healing New Member

    Funny thing is, when I do a search on penicillen all I get is my own posts!

    Okay, okay, I'll start my own thread and see if anyone bites.