To sleep, perchance to dream...

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by loonie, Aug 29, 2002.

  1. loonie

    loonie New Member

    Hi, All:

    I have just finished reading a lot of back posts on stage 4 sleep, and was unable to get what I need out of them. So, I will post my dilemna and see if there is anyone else with the weird sleep pattern that I have.

    I have been aware that I have FMS for about two or three years. I just found a doctor that diagnosed me, and am happy with the interaction and insight we have shared. Now I feel I have to deal with the sleep deprivation problem before it drags on any farther.

    I have had a sleep study that showed I spent only 4% in stage 4 and 68% in stage 2. Plus I was in sleep phase for only about 4 hours out of the total 7 hours spent "wired". I only spent a short time in REM, but I attribute that to the situation, as I normally dream a lot. I had NO sleep apneas noted during the study, but was nonetheless diagnosed with obstructive sleep apnea and put on cpap. My FMS was not helped at all by the cpap butI choose to continue becaue for some unknown reason I was having very low O2 readings at night, and do not have low readings on the cpap.

    My sleep goes thusly-I go to bed, put in my earplugs ( can't sleep well(well being relative, of course) w/o them), put on my cpap, and go to sleep, waking 1-3 time a night to go to little girls room-going back to sleep with relative ease. M-W-F I get up at 7 feeling like I never went to bed, and the other four I sleep in till varied hours usually around 8 ( have to wear mask as light will disturb me) waking up feeling like I never went to bed (surprise???).

    My dreams would put any hollywood producer to shame, and I feel like I dream all night long. I have long dreams that often have a storyline-I have minor"anxiety dreams" but never have nightmares. I actually enjoy my dreams.

    I am not really "sleepy" during the day, just physically drained. If I try to go to bed before 10 pm I usually toss and turn for a while b4 going to sleep (you cpap users out there will certainly be sympathetic about that!!!)

    I tried ZMA for a month, but it did not help at all, and caused my feet to swell. Whatever is causing my sleep problem is evidently not related to Mel's and other's problems that were helped by it. I have been on Miraplex and clonazepam for the possibility of restless leg or periodic limb movement, but neither helped.

    So - does anyone else sleep fairly normally except for almost no restful, restorative sleep?(In the last three years I have awakened feeling refreshed only one time)

    "Restless" but not sleepless in Loon Lake,

    Loonie, aka Kathe



  2. loonie

    loonie New Member

    Hi, All:

    I have just finished reading a lot of back posts on stage 4 sleep, and was unable to get what I need out of them. So, I will post my dilemna and see if there is anyone else with the weird sleep pattern that I have.

    I have been aware that I have FMS for about two or three years. I just found a doctor that diagnosed me, and am happy with the interaction and insight we have shared. Now I feel I have to deal with the sleep deprivation problem before it drags on any farther.

    I have had a sleep study that showed I spent only 4% in stage 4 and 68% in stage 2. Plus I was in sleep phase for only about 4 hours out of the total 7 hours spent "wired". I only spent a short time in REM, but I attribute that to the situation, as I normally dream a lot. I had NO sleep apneas noted during the study, but was nonetheless diagnosed with obstructive sleep apnea and put on cpap. My FMS was not helped at all by the cpap butI choose to continue becaue for some unknown reason I was having very low O2 readings at night, and do not have low readings on the cpap.

    My sleep goes thusly-I go to bed, put in my earplugs ( can't sleep well(well being relative, of course) w/o them), put on my cpap, and go to sleep, waking 1-3 time a night to go to little girls room-going back to sleep with relative ease. M-W-F I get up at 7 feeling like I never went to bed, and the other four I sleep in till varied hours usually around 8 ( have to wear mask as light will disturb me) waking up feeling like I never went to bed (surprise???).

    My dreams would put any hollywood producer to shame, and I feel like I dream all night long. I have long dreams that often have a storyline-I have minor"anxiety dreams" but never have nightmares. I actually enjoy my dreams.

    I am not really "sleepy" during the day, just physically drained. If I try to go to bed before 10 pm I usually toss and turn for a while b4 going to sleep (you cpap users out there will certainly be sympathetic about that!!!)

    I tried ZMA for a month, but it did not help at all, and caused my feet to swell. Whatever is causing my sleep problem is evidently not related to Mel's and other's problems that were helped by it. I have been on Miraplex and clonazepam for the possibility of restless leg or periodic limb movement, but neither helped.

    So - does anyone else sleep fairly normally except for almost no restful, restorative sleep?(In the last three years I have awakened feeling refreshed only one time)

    "Restless" but not sleepless in Loon Lake,

    Loonie, aka Kathe



  3. nathan

    nathan New Member

    Yes, I have been offering advice to folks for years. Kids that want to get high should save their money and brain cells because sleep deprivation is a great way to get all of the effects of modern recreational drugs. I have suffered seriously with insomnia for over 10 yrs. but since I have been diagnosed w/ fibro for the past 2 yrs. I have used sleeping aids to get to sleep. My problem was getting to bed and staying asleep long enough to get REM sleep. I am not as familiar with stage 4 sleep, but I imagine they both are similiar and are necessary in proper body function. I am positive that sleep is the single most important thing I can do to improve the way I feel most all of the time. Unfortunately I don't get to do it enough. I don't take any particular med or sleeping aid too long because they are either habit formning or quit working, usually both. I do not want to have to take meds to chill out, I already take lots of painkillers. That's enough to keep you watching the ol' liver get mad. Oh WEll, Sleep when you can and get more soon.!Cheers!
  4. knackered

    knackered New Member

    Hi,
    Have you tried Melatonin or 5HTP? both of these might be worth considering. Also, which brand of ZMA did you try? It may be that another brand might be helpful. I had to take it for about 2 months before I got the full benefit from it.

    You never know, it might be worth a try love Andrea xxx
  5. loonie

    loonie New Member

    Thanks,Andrea:
    I tried a high quality, sub-lingual variety of melatonin-got nothing but the trots from it-oh, well?? No 5HTP-need to research that one.

    loonie

    PSS: ZMA from SwansonVitamins, trademarked by SNAC System, Inc,
    [This Message was Edited on 08/29/2002]
  6. Shirl

    Shirl New Member

    The only other natural help I would suggest is Valerian. It will help me sleep, but it gave me a morning headache. But I did sleep, others have good results with it.

    I take the ZMA by SNAC and I have been sleeping great since Feburary. But we are all so different, that what works for one of us, does not always work for others.

    I hope you find what helps you soon.

    Shalom, Shirl
  7. domesticgoddess

    domesticgoddess New Member

    One of my first symptoms before being dx with Fibromyalgia 12 yrs ago -No Sleep and Felt Like Crap when I finally decided to drag my tired butt out of the bed next morning.

    I'm a FIRM BELIEVER in "Getting Maximum Amount Of Sleep" in a Given Nite. I tried the "Supplmental Way" - Melatonin, Green Tea, & Etc. Nothing helped.

    Finally I visited with a Rhuematologist. He told me that One Of the Major Factors in Dealing With FMS is "Sufferers of FMS dont get into the "Deep Sleep" "REM".

    He prescribed an anti-depressant Elavil. I took Elavil from 90 to 96. When my blood pressure and heart "skyrocketed" my pain doctor rx'd 75 mg of Pamelor.

    So thus, since 96 pop the nitely Pamelor pill.

    Just a little side note. Altho, I take an anti-depressant pill, Pamelor, each nite - I've never been dx with depression.

    Just recently, I've experienced "Pain" in the calves of my legs along with severe left hip pain. I'm still struggling with the outcome of my MRI - bulging discs and bone spurs of which is inoperable. Doctor states only 2 remedies - 1 being "Steriod InJections" NOT FOR ME AND 2 - Physical Therapy.

    Will Again take the later -PT. However, I've been there - done that. Trying to keep a Positive Attitude as PT is one I've never had the opportunity to see.


    Gentleness



  8. loonie

    loonie New Member

    Hi, yourgoddessness (LOL)

    Thanks for your post. I too have some disc problems and face the two same choices steroids and PT. Still considering the PT, but just can't do it unless I can get on SSDI for a couple of years. I am at my limit of physical resources now, and I work only three days a week-can't manage two days in a row so work MWF and rest and recover the other four days.

    I have researched this fairly deeply and have found that there are actually 5 stages of sleep-stage 1(alpha) thru stage 4 (delta)plus REM-which is when one dreams. The healing/resting phase is stage 4 or delta sleep, which I do not get.

    My sleep is seemingly "normal"-I fall asleep within normal range, can fall back asleep when I awake in the night, and I don't stay awake until early in the morning and then go to sleep-I just never seem to get sufficient staage 4 sleep to rest and heal. I am searching for someone else who has this pattern, to see if they have been able to overcome it.

    Thank you for your post, loonie

    PS THANKS TO EVERYONE ELSE-I ENJOY HEARING FROM YOU ALL!!!
  9. domesticgoddess

    domesticgoddess New Member

    "Work" I use that term quite loosely.

    Yes, I Pray Every Nite To Our Lord Savior!

    Working "Out of the Home" and Working "Within the Home" each day is a Struggle.

    Ya know - I used to envy those of Our "F'mly" who were able to 'Be A Stay At Home 'Domestic Goddess' - thus my nick. Hmm, just been within the last 3 yrs I've realized "I'm the Lucky One!"

    Even tho I struggle 4 days out of the week to drag my "Droopy Butt" out of the bed to go to work - I Realize "I'm the Lucky One!".

    Ya know why? Cause "I'm given the opportunity to deal "With Normal People!"

    With that Said - To "My FMS/CFIDS/Me F'mly - Those Of "US" whom no longer are "Unable to Live In A Work Force Environment - "My Heart Goes Out To You!!!!"

    Gentleness