toxic guts, toxic body, why do a comprehensive stool analysis

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by Catseye, Mar 21, 2008.

  1. Catseye

    Catseye Member

    Okay, I finally got my test results!

    I thought I had "fixed" everything, but was still having problems with post exertional malaise and exercise intolerance. They were much better than they used to be (used to be bedridden awhile back), but the deep fatigue was still there after activity. So I had to accept what I guess I had been trying to ignore: the fact that the gut was messed up, possibly leaky gut syndrome or at least some malabsorption problems. This would also explain why I have to take so many pills to function. There was a site called beatcfsandfibro which listed fixing the gut as crucial in getting over these diseases. I believed that and I finally had to realize maybe mine wasn't under control like I thought it was. So I sought out what to do.

    I found a doctor online to help me with it. I had seen several sites sort of like this before, but there was something about his that just caught my attention. I have been lucky with where my attention has been taking me (though it's been a bit slow at times) so I went with it.

    I got a free phone consultation after answering a bunch of health-related questions. Then after I decided he was on the ball by talking to him for awhile, I decided to go with his ideas. He said first thing to do is a comprehensive stool analysis so I know the state of my guts. While waiting for the test, I had to answer yet more questions, like a few hundred. It took quite a while. Then I got my test kit from Genova Diagnostics.

    It was a 3 day kit and I had to give up some of my important pills for several days. That was pretty bad, things like certain aminos and digestive enzymes and a couple other things. After a few days, I couldn't stand it and I crammed my day 2 and day 3 into one day. I wish I could have done otherwise, but it probably didn't matter all that much in my case.

    Putting the kit into action was quite funny and morbid. If any fellow sickies want the gory details, you'll have to request them. I'll stick them later in the thread so not everyone has to read them. I thought it was quite funny, myself, but not for the faint of heart.

    So I got my results after a couple of weeks, and my follow up phone consultation yesterday. I was horrified and relieved at the same time. Horrified because of the state of my guts, it's pretty bad. But relieved because at last I know I have a serious, physical problem explaining my symptoms and it's fixable. It's an extremely hard fix for most people, but it's do-able. Here's my results:

    The following abnormal results were noted in your test:

    Digestive Markers – Chymotrypsin 1.2 ref range is .9-26.8

    Your Chymotrypsin is marginally low indicating lack of pancreatic enzymes or lack of hydrochloric acid.

    Digestive Markers – Total Putrefactive Short chain Fatty Acids (SCFA’s)

    Your Putrefactive Short chain Fatty Acids is low indicating lack of protein in the diet or imbalance of amino acids. The short chain fatty acids replace the intestinal lining.

    Digestive Markers – Meat Fibers

    Meat fibers were observed in your sample and these should not be present. This indicates a lack of pancreatic enzymes or lack of hydrochloric acid.

    Your levels of n-Butyrate is low.

    n-Butyrate is the most important of the beneficial short chain fatty acids, and is the primary energy source for cells in the colon. Adequate amounts are necessary for the healthy metabolism of the colonic mucosa, and have been shown to have protective effects against colorectal cancers. Low levels of n-butyrate are associated with a higher risk of colon cancer and ulcerative colitis. Low levels of beta-glucuronidase are related to increased net glucuronidation, which may result in increased excretion of toxins, drugs, steroid hormones and other compounds detoxified via this pathway.

    Metabolic Markers – High pH (Alkaline Gut)

    Your pH or acidity of the intestinal tract is high or on the alkaline side indicating high protein and / or low fiber diet, dysbiosis, slow transit time, lack of hydrochloric acid and/or ncreased bile flow rate. Long term high pH is associated with an increased risk for colorectal cancer. Ph is 7.3 but it should be around 6.1, more acidic to keep down bacteria. This is typical with yeast.

    Absorption Markers – Long Chain Fatty Acids

    Your long chain fatty acids are high; possible indications include: malabsorption, increased mucosal cell turnover, bacterial overgrowth of the small intestine, and / or bile insufficiency.

    Absorption Markers – High Phospholipids

    High phospholipids indicates malabsorption and/or reduced bile salt resorption, and/or increased mucosal cell turnover; malabsorption is the state where food, either in it's digested or undigested state can not cross the intestinal lining and make it's way to the liver to be further broken down into it's individual chemical components. Reduced bile resorption can lead to a stool that is "fatty" in nature and bile is also important in the detoxification process of the body. Without proper bile resorption you can feel toxic, fatigued and experience problems such as headaches and other toxic symptoms.

    Absorption Markers – Fecal Fat

    Your Total Fecal Fat Level is High

    This parameter is the sum of all the lipids except SCFAs. It can be indicative of maldigestion or malabsorption. It has been suggested that elevated long chain fatty acid levels reflect malabsorption, and elevated triglyceride levels reflect maldigestion.

    Microbiology Markers – Beneficial Bacteria

    You are lacking in one or more or the beneficial bacteria. The beneficial bacteria include Lactobacilli, E. coli and Bifidobacteria. The "friendly bacteria", Lactobacilli and Bifidobacteria, are important for gastrointestinal function, as they are involved in vitamin synthesis, natural antibiotic production, immune defense, digestion, detoxification of pro-carcinogens and a host of other activities. Ideally, levels of Lactobacillus and E. coli should be 2+ or greater. Bifidobacteria should be at a level of 4+.

    Microbiology Markers – Additional Bacteria

    You show an overgrowth of bacteria in the intestinal tract. These are considered "bad" bugs and need to be eradicated. There is alpha haemolytic streptococcus, gamma haemolytic streptococcus, bacillus species and citrobacter younae. These last 2 are particularly bad, the latter being listed as a disease-causing "possible pathogen".

    Microbiology Markers – Mycology

    Mycology is the study of yeast and fungus. Your results show yeast in the intestinal tract. It shows candida albicans, yeast listed as "not candida albicans", and candida krusei. None of these should be there at all.


    What's so strange is that I have a clear case of not enough stomach acid and I had been supplementing with betaine hcl. Apparently, just not enough. And I have also been taking very expensive, good probiotics for a year - ones with the lactobacillus in them. And very expensive, good digestive enzymes, too. AND, I've also been taking glutamine for over a year. I've stopped it a few times, but took it for the most part, mostly to fix my gut lining. But what I've found out is that I am still deficient in these things and the gut lining is still a mess. And while my supplements helped me, I should have done this first thing instead of trying to deal with my guts myself, using my own "gut feelings", pardon the pun. Bad idea. But I didn't know. Now you know, so don't dismiss this so readily.

    I probably wasted a lot of money taking all the supplements for digestion without doing this first, and I still have to go on an even further restricted diet for several months now to eradicate the yeast. I took all those probiotics with lactobacillus and they're not even detectable! Even all the raw garlic cloves I've been eating weren't enough to kill off the yeast down there. It stopped the yeast in the blood, I think, because I stopped getting so hypoglycemic, but the guts are still stuffed with yeast. Yick!

    I also had some bloodwork done at the same time and together with the above stool analysis, the conclusions are as follows:

    I am deficient in hydrochloric acid, which means I am also deficient in the things that need it for absorption like zinc (which also is used to make the acid so you get a nasty vicious cycle where zinc is concerned - no acid in the stomach, no absorption and then no production of acid) and calcium, among other things. Not only is there not enough acid, there isn't enough bile, either, which is used to further break down fats in the intestines AND to clear toxins from the body. And, according to certain enzyme and protein levels from the bloodwork, the liver and kidneys are extremely stressed with detox issues.

    This is no surprise with lack of proper bile production and flow. I was told bile can become thick and if I have inflammation, that means I have it all over like even in the bile ducts so it can't flow properly from the gallbladder and liver down to the intestines to further break down the fats and dispel toxins.

    I am in a state of metabolic acidosis (a huge contributor to post exertional malaise) and also a state of inflammation because the lack of proper fat breakdown means I can't produce the anti-inflammatory hormones I need. This was indicated by a chloride level of 73, which should be from 25-33.

    Since my guts are highly alkaline, they can't absorb iron, either, and so it is not binding to the hemoglobin in the red blood cells in adequate amounts. The protein in the blood iron hooks up to is ferritin, and it was 29.44 when it should have been 50-200. Hemoglobin was low, too, 13.1 and should have been 13.5-15. These are more reasons for post exertional malaise.

    My treatment is going to consist of several steps, which I'll have to post continually on here while they happen over the next few months. First, the liver has to start producing bile adequately and it has to flow smoothly to detoxify the body. The first steps are focusing on bile production and the reduction of inflammation. I have several interesting supplements on the way to accomplish these ends. I'll post more on them after I've tried them.

    It's ironic that the last thing I'm doing should really have been the first. If you are having to take a lot of supplements and you are eating healthy, then this is an indication that a comprehensive stool analysis should be considered because there are obvious malabsorption issues at the very least and yeast and detox issues compounding it at the worst. I hate to say it, but I don't think I'm an unusual case. I think most of us have the same problems I'm having, with just different fluctuations in the test result numbers.

    I'm not beating myself up over the fact that I should have done this a long time ago, I just didn't know all this back then. But I urge everyone to have this test done if you have issues like post exertional malaise, severe fatigue, the "dying" feeling and hypoglycemia. Yes, you may find out what you don't want to: that you have to give up everything you like to eat. But there are delicious and satisfying substitutes in healthy food. After a couple of years, I promise I can match my old favorites in terms of taste and satisfaction with healthy alternatives. I can elaborate on them for anyone who wishes - I did your homework for you!

    And I started my new no carb diet today. Here's what I can eat: meat, fish, chicken, eggs, raw nuts and seeds and veggies. BTW, not only do I have PMS today, I also have lower blood sugar than usual from this DD and I'm staying inactive to avoid PEM. And now after thinking hard and writing this, I have worse brain fog almost to the point of ADHD. Dang, my life is a spelling bee.

    more later when I get my new supps and try them, and I get to do these tests again in a couple of months to monitor progress, this is really down to a science now, no more guessing

    [This Message was Edited on 03/21/2008]
    [This Message was Edited on 03/21/2008]
  2. woofmom

    woofmom New Member

  3. springrose22

    springrose22 New Member

    Thanks a lot for this. I'm printing to read at leisure. Marie
  4. Febricula

    Febricula New Member

    Wow is right! I've been meaning to do this test as well, and I'm definitely sold. I'm taking Hcl and probiotics, etc., but it's best to know exactly what the problem is and go from there.

    Can you tell me exactly what the name of the test is? I have a great doc who emphasizes gut health, so I'm sure she'll order it for me if I tell her exactly what it is.

    About the new supps -- did your doctor prescribe them, or did you choose them yourself?

  5. Catseye

    Catseye Member

    I just looked on the Genova Diagnostics website and these are the two different stool analysis tests they have. I'm assuming I did the second one since it seemed to be more involved and talked about inflammation and cancer risk. Dr. Farr ordered it for me.


    The Comprehensive Digestive Stool Analysis (CDSA) is the original non-invasive evaluation of gastrointestinal function that includes analyses of digestion, absorption, bacterial balance, yeast and parasites. This profile is recommended for patients with diffuse and non-specific GI-related symptoms, such as indigestion, dysbiosis, constipation, and diarrhea.

    Comprehensive Digestive Stool Analysis (CDSA) 2.0 uses advanced GI biotechnology to evaluate digestion, absorption, pancreatic function, and inflammation, in addition to bacterial balance, yeast, and parasite infection. This profile features exclusive new markers for assessing irritable bowel syndrome, sub-mucosal inflammation, colorectal cancer risk, pancreatic insufficiency, and occult infection.

    The doc ordered all my supps for me, too. I'm putting myself in his hands now, since I've realized that this gut stuff is extremely complicated and treating it yourself with probiotics and enzymes and such is probably good for just maintenance or if you are just beginning to shed your perfect health and don't have anything too critical going on, but we're seriously messed up and the gut is nothing to fool with. Funny how hindsight is so crystal clear, huh?

    Some of the supplements he ordered for me are things I've never heard of. I looked at all their descriptions and some of them are things similar to what I've used, like a super betaine hcl formula that is stronger than the one I use, and a super probiotic, but the others I'm not familiar with. I'll post more about them when I get them and start them.

    I probably won't even receive them in the mail for a couple of weeks. And then in 3 weeks, I have to go out of town for a while and probably won't start the cleansing ones until I get back in case I have a hard time with them. So we're probably looking at a month before I start hot and heavy with the more complicated stuff.

    If this fixes me up as much as I think it's going to, then everyone should run out and get this done, provided you can find someone competent to interpret the results and make proper recommendations. We'll see how Dr. Farr does.

  6. Febricula

    Febricula New Member

    Please do continue to keep us updated. I think gut health is a really important element of this disease -- it didn't become an obvious problem for me until year 5 of my illness, but since then it's been a constant nagging issue. I've been putting off getting some of these tests because I have to pay out of pocket, but I now realize they're worth it.

    thanks again
  7. Catseye

    Catseye Member

    Personally, I think the gut was the first thing to go bad. Then the initial "trigger" was allowed to take over without enough of a fight from the body. Usually the trigger is an infection. When the gut went bad, we probably didn't even notice. It was a very gradual thing, probably we just thought (at least I did, I remember distinctly) that we were getting older and out of shape. Probably we let a fleeting thought about exercise go through our brains, and a halfass promise to ourselves to eat better.

    But we didn't. We ate the same crap we always did. We even thought some of it was healthy but I've come to realize that healthy food is food out of the ground, period. If we didn't eat enough of it, then we are paying the price now. Gradually, the gut became unable to absorb nutrients, that means the immune system (80% of which is in the guts, BTW, I keep reading) could not work as well and the guts became overrun with the "baddies". Then everything went to hell as the cascading effect of malnutrition got progressively worse. Finally, I woke up one day and couldn't get up.

    Guys, do not make the same mistake most of us have by ignoring your gut - it is your nutrient intake mechanism AND your immune system, both of which are messed up in CFS. We know we have nutritional deficiencies AND a malfunctioning immune system for sure because these are the basics of these diseases. I believe fibro is the same underlying mess, just with pain.

    And don't take the chance on self-treatment without testing to see what you're up against regarding the state of your intestines. You can easily waste your money and especially your time while the yeast and bacteria have a heyday, eating all your nutrients and filling you with toxic waste. I could have been doing the yeast diet this whole year intently instead of half-assing it like I've been doing. That's the main thing, then I guess these supps that are coming will help, too. One of them is something called like disbiocide? or something like that to help with really bad yeast. Can't remember offhand, too tired right now.

    What is really frightening is these markers above for increased risk of colon cancer. No regular doctor has ever talked about these tests for me. Why doesn't everybody do them? I know several people who have had colon cancer, some of them are dead already from it. It's definitely not a conventional medicine type of test, but it's importance is critical. Your gut can make you or break you.

    One final point I can't emphasize enough: I don't have constipation or cramping or indigestion or abdominal discomfort or loose stools or ANYTHING that would cause me to think that my digestion is anything but perfect. The only reason I decided it was bad was because I had run down every other symptom I had, figured out the problem, and fixed them all. But I still had grave problems with weakness and I have to take tons of pills. I knew it was down to digestion problems by sheer process of elimination. That's why it took me years to get here.

    If you are messed up with these diseases and are stumped about what's wrong, then it's a good bet this is the problem. Do not ignore your gut until you've confirmed it with testing. It is most certainly not worth the risk. If you let it go, you not only risk further damage, but colon cancer, apparently.

  8. slowdreamer

    slowdreamer New Member

    Thanks karen for excellent detailed info..My situation is very similar to yours and you've given me a few ideas...
    Now remember to rest a bit after all your goood work and keep your gut calm...
  9. twitch_64

    twitch_64 New Member

    Right after I was diagnosed, but I lost my insurance benefits and never got back to the dr to see what my results were. It's standard practice for my dr to run this test upon dx.

    I already knew I had yeast and lack of probiotics, and since then I've discovered I have parasites too. The liver and pancreas results make sense and I wouldn't be suprised if mine revealed the same because I have IBS with constipation.

    I've done part of a 90 day internal cleanse, which I plan to do again then when I get to go back amd I will have the test done again to access whats changed. This clease has gotten out some of the black mucous ropes that ppl talk about and other gunk. I think thats a huge part of absorption problems and lack of liver/pancreas function.

    After I do the 90-120 cleanse, I'm going to use something called threelac to address the yeast further. I then plan to use Diatomaceous earth and calcuim bentonite clay to detox mercury from my body. Then I will be supplimenting to build up nutrition, I should be pretty clean on the inside to be able to absorb things then. Oh, I'm also going to check out the olive oil and lemon juice liver cleanse...

    Thank you for posting your info though Barrow, it was very interesting to see what all they check for. I will look forward to what your treatments are and the results.

    twitch[This Message was Edited on 03/21/2008]
  10. dannybex

    dannybex Member

    I totally agree with you. Most people don't realize that 70-80% of their immune system is in their gut! If that's screwed up in anyway, it can affect everything.

    I too have low stomach acid, and was told to up my hydrochloric acid caps by one with each subsequent meal, until I get that 'warm' feeling, and then to back off by one.

    Eventually, by eating sufficient (but not too much) protein, the acid levels should increase (since HCL and other enzymes are made from protein).

    But I'm curious...why NO carbs???



    p.s. We had a woman come speak to our group about six months back...she was sick for about 8 years, finally got better, slowly but surely, by taking chymotrypsin of all things!
  11. twitch_64

    twitch_64 New Member

    Simple carbs turn into glucose very quickly in the body and yeast just love most forms of sugar, of which glucose is one. Its a way to starve off yeast, or at least give them little to thrive on....

  12. GigglePoet

    GigglePoet New Member

    HI Karen,
    So glad you shared this. Can you please share how you found out about this Dr.? Oh is he going to treat your Ferritin levels? mine were 22 and don't have any guidance on this.

    [This Message was Edited on 03/21/2008]
  13. tansy

    tansy New Member

    and thanks for posting your tests and results here. These are frequently found when looked for and they're treatable. Unless our GI tract is working optimally it will be very difficult to improve or benefit from our healthy diets and supps.

    When I was first ill I became so thin I looked the same as the starving in developing countires. This freaked my son's father out since I was still eating so it wasn't lack of food in my case. The docs insisted it was annorexia despite our own insistance I was eating enough to be putting weight on.

    Fortuanately my chiro knew a doctor who practiced nutritional/orthomolecular medicine who understood the importance of a healthy gut. Even though this was in the 80s he recognised leaky gut, lack of digestive enzymes, parasitic infections, intestinal candida overgrowth, food intolerances + + +.

    One simple test he did, that most doctors can acccess was the unrinary indicans; mine was positive and indicated an overgrowth of pathogenic bacteria in the bowel.

    I made some progress as a result of my tx and recommendations given, my wieght went back into the normal range even though my calorie intake was lower than it was before treatment.

    In more recent years I went to town on my gi tract sx and gall bladder pain due to poor bile flow (Drs had said this was due to inflammation caused by my virus).

    I made more dietary changes and ate the same foods Karen writes about here. I took broad spectrum digestive enzymes, better probiotics, and herbal remedies to treat intestinal candida, parasites, viruses and bacteria. Herbs also helped to give my gall bladder and bile flow a gentle nudge. I also used psyllium husks unless my bowel had gone into temporary shut down (later confirmed as being caused by nerve compression).

    I believe for those confused about what they should do, or who find they cannot tolerate many of the recommended Tx, this would be a good place to start. If we aim to detox, or have die off from treating pathogens like borrelia, we need our excretion through the colon and bowel to be safe. That requires them to be healthy and functioning optimally.

    Good luck Karen; I look forward to reading your future feedback.

    tc, Tansy
    [This Message was Edited on 03/22/2008]
  14. Djembe

    Djembe New Member

    Fascinating stuff Karen.

    I just had out from the library a new book called 'Why We Hurt' which is a really comprehensive look at chronic pain by Greg Fors (a chiropractor and neurologist according to his bio). Has a lot of good info synthesized, somewhat like Teitelbaum's approach but with a whole section on trigger point therapy. Anyways, he cited a study that found that virtually 100% of fibromyalgia patients had dysbiosis happening in their gut. Even when many had no distinct digestive symptoms. What was surprising was that the percentage of people with dysbiosis in their gut was higher for fibro patients than for those with irritable bowel syndrome.

    He also mentions the comprehensive digestive analysis, and some cheaper urinary tests (urinary indicans as mentioned above) that could help determine any problem, or steer you in the right direction.

    Just took the book back so afraid I cant directly reference that study.
    [This Message was Edited on 03/22/2008]
  15. Catseye

    Catseye Member

    slowdreamer - taking a rest and keeping gut calm - I'm trying. But this damn diet has me irritable already! Grrr! I think it's time for some yoga, but now I'm scared to exert myself because I don't have an abundance of blood sugar flowing and don't want to use up what's there!

    In a way, I'm so excited that I have found a major, physical problem that I can deal with, so it's making this new annoyance much easier to bear. And besides, after what I've been through the past few years, this is really nothing in comparison. The "Grrr" feeling is much more easily tolerated than the "please shoot me" feeling.

    twitch - someone somewhere, can't remember now, mentioned something about seeing their clean, pink, healthy colon in their colonoscopy. I wonder if that goes far up enough to be able to see the gunky stuff? Is the gunky stuff supposed to be all over, do you know?

    I had the camera thing up my rear a couple of years before I got sick, but I don't think it was a full fledged colonoscopy because it wasn't all that bad. And it didn't go up all that far. I had been having this feeling of impaction and was waking up in the middle of the night in agony, feeling like I had to go to the bathroom but I never could make anything come out. After they stuck the "snake" up there and looked, there was nothing there and I was about to have an ultrasound to check out my gallbladder when I finally figured out what it was. It was my tailbone.

    I don't remember what makes it do it, but it does it every once in awhile, and then I have to put an ice pack on it and it stops the pain in 2 minutes. It was probably from sitting down so much on office chairs. I just threw this in in case anyone else has a weird, gut wrenching pain and they don't know what it is. The tailbone spasming, or whatever was happening, was making me feel like I had to go to the bathroom or just do something, it was very strange and it was EXTREMELY painful.

    dan, twitch already answered about the carbs, I'm looking at it like I'm starving the little buggers who have starved me for so long. Let's see how THEY like it! HA! And don't assume you can get your stomach acid flowing by diet. I thought I could and I had totally ignored the zinc in the equation. Plus I didn't find out until recently about the zinc, iron, copper thing. That's why I think I've read where it says to limit supps with copper, because it will block absorption of the others. More on zinc below.

    giggle - I found this guy at becomehealthynow. I just stumbled across it one day in my endless search for answers. And I think it's one of the few gems I've found. It starts out asking you if you want to take a free quiz and then get a free phone consultation. The initial quiz was still a bit involved. Later, I answered all kinds of things, about bowels, sleep, pain, different organs, too much to remember. It took me a couple of days to answer all the questions posed to me for my initial complaint of chronic fatigue syndrome. It was literally a few hundred questions, many of them very specific.

    First, I did a preliminary question/answer thing to get a free phone consultation. I have seen several sites like this, but like I said, this one just caught my attention to the point where I went through with all of this. So I answered basic questions and when I talked to Dr. Farr, everything he said was consistent with what I already know about health, the body and chronic fatigue syndrome. I decided he really knew what he was talking about and so I decided to go with what he said. So I had to answer the hundreds of questions, first thing, to see what we're up against. And the answers pointed to bad digestion and liver and gallbladder problems. Then he called me and we talked about what to do next.

    First, it was this comprehensive stool analysis and bloodwork to see what exactly is up with the intestines, liver and gallbladder. He sent me detailed instructions for the test and what things to have checked in my bloodwork. He also sent me some aqueous zinc for a new kind of zinc test. You drink the zinc solution which is heavily diluted zinc and report on what you taste. And that determines how deficient you are. I'm very deficient so I'm taking a special zinc supplement. You can't take it near copper or iron since they all compete for receptors, BTW. The zinc is crucial to stomach acid production AND the acid is crucial to zinc absorption, so this has to be rectified immediately. He said it takes a while to get over a zinc absorption problem. I had to use several bottles of the zinc solution first and then continue with the zinc pills.

    And everything came with forms and instructions for insurance, but I don't have any. Since I don't have any, I don't know how that works and if they pay for any of this, but it seems Dr. Farr is willing to deal with it, anyway.

    He is very far away from me and he has no problem doing everything by phone and email. So I got another call after my test results were all ready and he had reviewed them. He elaborated on the above results for me on the phone and I was to look at my personal health record on his site for the specific instructions. So I spent the afternoon doing that yesterday and making my own notes. It's very long and detailed. It's so nice to have everything all laid out for me, especially in writing so I don't have to remember it, and I can go back anytime and look at my results and what I'm supposed to be doing. I have a 2 step program to follow right now and step 3 of the plan will be formulated according to the results of the first 2 steps. And I guess it will go on from there.

    The diet change, increase of bile output, reduction of inflammation and helping the liver and kidneys with their detoxing are the focus for right now. I have specific supps on the way and instructions in my health record. I'm anxious to get started with everything, but my trip next month is going to hold me up a bit. I can't travel if I'm detoxing because I don't know how bad I'll feel, or if I'll feel bad at all. I can't take the chance. The diet and digestion supps I'll be using as soon as I get them, but I'll wait until I return to start with the detoxing stuff. That will be after April 19.

    We haven't gotten to the ferritin levels yet, at least he didn't mention it specifically. It may be addressed with some of the supps that are coming, I'm not sure. He did go on about anemia and iron so I'm sure he's figured it into my equation somehow. I think I remember the stomach acid being the main culprit here, too, because you need it for iron absorption, also for calcium and zinc. And you need B12 for iron and it needs the guts to be in better shape, too, because of the intrinsic factor as I remember from Rich's stuff.

    Everything is tying in so nicely! Looks like stomach acid is an enormous part of this whole mess. I have never had a doctor mention stomach acid as a good thing. I was even treated for acid reflux the couple of years before I got sick and got that ridiculously expensive purple pill and some reglan. How about that? Looks like my regular doctor contributed a whole lot to my disease! He just ASSUMED it was something that needed to be decreased. I wonder how many people here have taken prilosec? Maybe I'll post a thread asking about who got acid reflux pills, now I'm curious. And BTW, NSAIDs prohibit the prostaglandin that is responsible for stomach acid, so the fibro people taking lots of pain pills better keep this in mind and do something about it like supplement with betaine hcl.

    femmdange - yeah, I think the yeast is there because the "baddies" outpopulated the "goodies" and ate them all and then the yeast had no "goodies" to eat them so they just reproduced like teens at a keg party! I think yeast and all baddies like sugar. I know I like it! Wait, that doesn't mean I'm a baddie!

    I can't really do the wormwood mix or antibiotics, I have before but they're really hard on the liver. That's why I'm using the raw garlic. But it still obviously wasn't enough to go after them in my guts. I know one of the supps is a super probiotic, I'll post more about it when I get it. And it's funny, I know alkalinity is supposed to be bad for pathogens, but I guess that's only in the blood or something, the gut has to be acid to keep the baddies in check.

    tansy, I think I found this guy and did this just in the nick of time. Just within the last month or so I have been experiencing gallbladder discomfort, not pain or an attack, exactly, but I can tell what it is. And now after what you said, I think it is just that: improper bile flow. Dr. Farr said bile can act just like motor oil, it can become too thick and not flow properly and especially if you have inflammation, like my tests indicated, then it flows even less. And we have to have bile for fat digestion and to eliminate toxins. And no bile, no fat digestion and the adrenals will have a hard time making their hormones. Yet more ties in together.

    djembe, I'm glad you mentioned that. I forgot to say that one of the tests was a urine test that he got some of the info from. I did the stool thing, bloodwork AND a urine test. After all this, I'm not surprised at all about fibroers having gut problems. I wonder if anyone with CFS or fibro has done these tests and came back clean? In fact, I wonder if anyone with a standard American diet could come back clean? I mean with the right bacteria in adequate amounts, no yeast, the enzymes in proper ratios, etc. And after what you said, the fibro people on NSAIDs (aspirin does it, too, BTW) having less stomach acid because of the inhibition of the prostaglandin that makes stomach acid should be making fibroers everywhere start questioning their own production of stomach acid.


    [This Message was Edited on 03/22/2008]
  16. woofmom

    woofmom New Member

    Some components of Vitamin D are antimicrobial. Vitamin D requires Pantethine for synthesis. If we are not able to correctly metabolize pantethonic acid to form pantethine then the antimicrobial components of Vitamin D can't do their job which is killing virus, bacteria, yeast, fungus, and mold. I've read that statin drugs can help prevent cancer. I've also read that Pantethine can be used in place of statin drugs. Pantethine is HIGHLY recommended to counteract the effects of yeast.
  17. Catseye

    Catseye Member

    The test, zinc and my first consultation fees totaled somewhere between $400-500, can't remember exactly, I think the test was over $300. His fees are reasonable, I think. You can look on the Genova website for the test, but I can't remember if they list the price or if you have to be a doctor to order it and see the price.

    The supplements don't seem more expensive than normal, I just spent a few hundred dollars more on those for everything I'm getting - it's quite a few items, I think like 20 bottles or so. Not 20 different things, but enough of the stuff for the next month or two or however long I'm supposed to take each one.

    I wouldn't have shelled out this much if I wasn't sure about what I was doing. So I get to play guinea pig and see if all this trouble and money is worth it! As it is, I take a few hundred dollars worth of stuff every month or two, anyway. And I'm supposed to stop many of them for these new steps I'm doing, so it's not like it's an additional expense. If I can stop taking all my pills, this will actually come out cheaper in the long run. And if it works and I can have a productive life again? Well, that's priceless.

    At least I have testing and will have further testing to see actual improvement and stuff. It's not like flying blind like I've been doing. I have been improving very slowly over time, but with no real indication on paper of what's happening. There's nothing I can measure with testing. I just know I used to be bedridden and now I can drive around and do some things. But now I'll be keeping track of things like gut bacteria and liver detoxification capacity and things I can actually measure. And that's how we hone down the plan, I'm told. Sounds good to me!

    Actually, there is one thing I've noticed myself here lately. I know that adrenal fatigue is indicated by a low body temperature. And I used to take it a lot last year to see what it was. And it was always a full degree lower than normal, always right at 97.6. I just took it last week to see, I haven't done it since last November, and it was 98.3! That's the highest it's been since I've been ill!

  18. woofmom

    woofmom New Member

    In my opinion, this indicates your health is slowly but surely improving. Now, will someone please do some legwork on what I posted concerning pantethine. I've taken my Pantethine and now I'm going to lay in the sun.
  19. Catseye

    Catseye Member

    I've been taking pantethine for over a year now, ever since I discovered coenzyme A. It's one of my highly recommended supps for everybody. But I was in such bad gut shape, I think, I was way beyond the point of no return so it didn't help with yeast. Or, maybe it did and it would be even worse if I hadn't been taking it! I have heard of people getting yeast in their livers and brains, and this is extremely dangerous, so maybe it's controlling it above the abdomen, at least.

    The gut yeast is really hard to kill, according to my new doc. I even asked him what would happen if people told him they weren't willing to do the diet. That I have no problem with it because I was tired of the torture and would do anything to get well, even gnaw off one of my arms if necessary. And he said that if someone wanted treatment and wasn't willing to do the diet, he wouldn't even begin. I guess that's because it probably would mean a much less chance of recovery and he doesn't want to waste his time or yours and your money. Plus people would blame him rather than the food they're eating.

    It's hard to realize food is no longer a luxury. Remember all those times we ate something bad and that nagging, little voice said "you shouldn't eat this", but it was just a whisper and you just dismissed it. I know I felt that little pang of guilt whenever I ate a Little Debbie snack or had a bowl of sugary cereal. I guess that little pang of guilt was my body signaling me that a tiny amount of damage was being done and it was a subtle warning not to keep doing it. Boy, I'm never going to dismiss that guilty feeling again.

    American junk food is not something I will ever fool around with again. Or wheat and dairy, for that matter. Not worth taking even a remote chance on this happening again. Don't do all this just to think you can go back to how you were. You can't, look what happened the first time. I have a feeling the second time could be much worse.

  20. Catseye

    Catseye Member

    To be more specific, pantethine is needed to make coenzyme A in the body.

    Coenzyme ATM is vital for:

    # Production of Cellular Energy
    # Cardiovascular Health and Circulation
    # Fatty Acid Metabolism, and Regulation.
    # Proper Cellular Detoxification.
    # Adrenal & Sex Hormone Production.
    # Protection from Free Radical, and Methylation degenerative ageing processes.
    # Synthesis of Glycosaminoglycans for Healthy Cartilage and Connective Tissue.
    # Strengthening the Immune System through Healthy Blood Cell Development.
    # Synthesis of Ubiquinone (Co-Q1O)
    # Key Neurotransmitter Production, and activation.
    # The Utilization of Choline and Acetyl Coenzyme A for the synthesis of Acetylcholine

    As you can see, if you don't have enough coenzyme A floating around, you're screwed. Pantethine, for anyone who doesn't remember, is the bioactive form of pantothenic acid, vitamin B5. You take it in pantethine form because we can't trust our broken bodies to make the proper chemicals in adequate amounts. I have realized this happens with several intermediary metabolites in my own body and I take lots of metabolites. This way of choosing my supps has got me getting well.