toxic guts, toxic body, why do a comprehensive stool analysis

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia and ME & Chronic Fatigue Syndrome' started by Catseye, Mar 21, 2008.

  1. twitch_64

    twitch_64 New Member

  2. acer2000

    acer2000 New Member

    Hi,

    I have read a lot about LG and I did the LG test where you drink the solution and they measure how much gets through. It is elevated in me, not off the chart, but elevated. However, I have had 3 CDSAs in the 3 years since I have gotten sick and not one of them has cultured yeast. I have had various forms of "potential pathogen" bacteria cultured sometimes, this is despite being on antibiotics a few times. I am curious what you think of someone who has LG, but not yeast?

    The parasite tests have been negative as well, but now I am told that I need to do blood/saliva tests for some of them because the stool tests don't get them (even the ones from GDSL/Genova). The lab to use for that was Diagnostechs.

    I supposed a viral GI infection or allergies could cause GI inflamation too, but I try to avoid the foods I am obviously allergic too such as soy, yeast, milk, and eggs. I have been blood tested for food allergies, and those are what come up.

    My CFS did start after a surgery where I was given a lot of antibiotics, and then developed more food allergies and chronic indigestion/gas. Avoiding yeast and soy seems to cut down on the gas.

    thoughts?

    A
  3. Catseye

    Catseye New Member

    Hi arosenbl0!

    I think anyone with LG and no yeast is very lucky! What were the possible pathogens listed in your CDSAs? They could be serious. And do you know what your n-butyrate, beta glucoronidase and chymotrypsin levels were? I had enterobacter, klebsiella, and citrobacter bacteria on mine at different times. I killed off some of them, then others cropped up, and I just finally got my test results back from the last one. I only had one bad guy left and he's not all that serious - alpha haemolytic streptococcus. The other nasties besides the yeast can be very bad, don't assume just because you have no yeast that you have no gut/immune system issues.

    I'm not familiar with Diagnostechs, I have been using Genova for everything. A viral GI infection or allergies are both indicative of gut issues - allergies (I'm assuming you mean hay fever) can be from undigested food particles hyping up the immune system and having a viral infection means the immune system wasn't operating properly in the first place. And you already had some pathogens in the CDSA and took lots of antibiotics. I'd say you have some gut healing to do! Gut dysbiosis treatment will certainly help.

    This is from beatcfsandfms.org:

    The cause of LEAKY GUT is typically one or more of the following:

    * harmful bacteria in gut
    * overgrown yeast and fungi in gut
    * parasites in gut
    * food allergies
    * immune system shooting at bad guys and punching holes behind them

    Have you checked out their protocols? It's what led me to my current fix. I just can't believe how much I've progressed. It's so weird that these bugs created all my bizarre and agonizing symptoms. I think bugs messed up my guts, which messed up my liver, and then that did me in. It's difficult to accept that the problem is in the guts, that's why treatment seems so elusive. That and the fact that medical doctors aren't schooled in what to do about a bad gut. So, in typical doctor fashion, they deny it or denounce it. Run to them for an emergency, run FROM them for gut treatment.

    I never actually had the LG test. It was pretty obvious I had it and so why waste money on the test? I've just started adding some other foods, but I'm being very careful. I still like the stuff I've been eating for the past 10 months on this special gut diet. I had plenty of time to work out the best foods and prepare them the tastiest ways - so tasty that I pretty much had the same foods over and over for breakfast lunch and dinner and was not minding - and I'm awfully careful and selective about what I've been adding. I'm going to pretend my guts are always an inch away from dysbiosis and eat accordingly. There's no way I'm going through this again. Now that it's all almost over, I can say it's the greatest challenge I've ever been given - and the most helpful. It made me clean up my life and health and treat them like I should have all along. What a ride, though!
  4. alangan1

    alangan1 New Member

    Very interesting and well written, please let us know what supplements you use going forward.
  5. Catseye

    Catseye New Member

    Finally! So it took about 9-10 months of a highly restricted diet and several supplements based on several tests. The tests were the crucial part of this fix. Before, I had been treating digestive issues myself and while I made a good bit of headway, I still wasn't able to get rid of the nastier yeasts and bacteria that had invaded my guts and took over. I didn't even know what was there prior to my first comprehensive digestive stool analysis. Now I only have one questionable baddie left, alpha haemolytic streptococcus. And Dr. Farr says it shows up on 90% of stool tests. It's not a big worry. All the other baddies and yeasts are showing No Growth. I still have a deficiency in lactobacillus bacteria - a good guy - but now that the bad guys are gone, it shouldn't be too hard to repopulate the lactos. They are also necessary for digesting milk. I can see now how badly dysbiosis can mess you up. I'm glad that's over, I can really tell a difference in everything.

    I've already began adding some foods to my diet. I've had a few casave crackers (made from yucca) and some gluten free cinnamon raisin bread and some raw chocolate. And I've ordered all kinds of healthy goodies from several online organic stores. I was so starved for goodies, it will be nice to have some again. But I still have to be very selective with my diet and there are certain things I will never eat again. This isn't a "oh great, now I can go back to eating like I used to eat!" kind of situation. That would just be asking for trouble. This is a "now it's time to continue to eat healthy like I always should have been eating and ensure that it never happens again" type of situation. It's not like it's going to be hard - after this whole cfs ordeal, I'm scared to death of junk food and I'll never eat it again. If I was on a desert island and a cargo plane of Little Debbie snacks crashed on it, I think I'd gnaw my own arm off and eat it before I'd resort to the Debbie Death Cakes. I'll bet the guys who work in the labs at Little Debbie HQ don't allow that crap in their own homes. They'd be pretty damn stupid if they did.

    There are tasty, healthy alternatives out there, but it just takes a long time to scope them all out and decide which you like best. Now, after paying close attention to the foods in health food stores for a few years, I can tell by looking at the ingredients and how something is prepared if I am going to like it or not. I stick to organic, gluten free, dairy free, low sugar treats and snacks - some of them are really out of this world and the thought of eating a french fry or a Little Debbie Crap Cake is no longer appealing; not only am I scared of it, it's just too sugary and gross now. And french fries have this filling, empty, dead feeling to them - even though they have a nice crunch and are really tasty with Hienz ketchup. I have crunchy snacks that are just as satisfying as a fried food but without the bad oils and risk to health. You feel like you are eating real food rather than merely filling yourself up, like with a french fry, and you eat the good stuff slow and really enjoy it.

    Tell me if there's one person out there who really enjoys the whole french fry experience other than when you are really hungry and you're trying to fill yourself up as quickly as possible. Healthy food may be an acquired taste, but that's only because we were ignorant and misled enough to acquire a taste for junk food first. There are also healthy condiments available, like grapeseed oil mayonnaise. Thanks to xchocoholic who turned me on to it, and I can tell you it's better than Miracle Whip. It would be lazy of me to go back to the way I used to eat, and also it would be dangerous. I'm not sure if once this has happened that you may have a tendency to develop it again quite easily (the dysbiosis), but I'm not going to try to find out. Several people I've heard that got well, or had a "remission", started in on their old eating habits and ended up sick again. I definitely won't make that mistake. They should have seen it coming.

    So now that the dysbiosis is under control, the next thing is the liver. I can tell my liver is still having problems. The heavy metals will cause enzyme and cofactor mishaps that will cause all kinds of strange symptoms. Between dysbiosis and the resulting liver overburden, you can get all kinds of horrible, seemingly unrelated symptoms. It is impossible to run down the cause of every symptom because there are just too many proteins in the human body - like between 50,000 and 100,000. These get out of whack in different combinations in different people and doctors don't know what the heck to do.

    I did the DNA testing and based on that and this last stool test, I am starting some new supps to tackle the abnormalities in my genes that affect the way my liver does its job. I am also discarding some of the old supplements from my regimen, because they have done their job while I am increasing some of the things I've already been taking, like magnesium and NAC, and adding some enzymes and manganese. One of the supps contains "naturally associated and/or organically bound methyl related compounds and phytochemicals including polyphenolic compounds, dehydrated at low temperature, to preserve associated enzyme factors." What does that mean? Helliphino, I haven't researched it yet. I'll let you know.

    Now once I get the liver operating normally again, our thinking is that then I will be able to do the heavy metal chelation. And that will be the end of this once and for all. I hope that doesn't take as long as the dysbiosis fix, but I doubt it will. I'm thinking more like 3 months, maybe 6 at the outside. I think the only thing that could be a problem is if I have any major organ damage that I don't know about. I guess it's possible, but I'll have to check on some things later. I'll know if my liver is not working properly, and I will probably have a good heart check up afterwards, too. I don't want to do it while I still have some symptoms, because it just may be related to the liver and metals.

    As for the leaky gut and dysbiosis fix, I found out some things along the way that I think will shorten the time it takes. First, the basic leaky gut fix is gluten free, dairy free, sugar free (free as in NONE AT ALL NOT EVEN FRUIT), grain free, low starch and low carb. Starches are impossible to avoid completely, but I was eating too many. I was eating lots and lots of zucchini, pumpkin and raw nuts like sunflower seeds and cashews which all contain a good amount of starches. When I cut them back drastically, it healed up a lot quicker, as is evident from the progress between the last two stool tests.

    One thing about remaining gluten and dairy free even if you don't necessarily have to . . . it is safe and it's better to be safe than sorry, and even better - it will keep you thin. Most of the junky and fattening foods have gluten and/or dairy in them so avoiding them will make sure you don't give in to temptation while out shopping or whatever, and the majority of those foods simply aren't very healthy; there's no good reason to eat them but several reasons to leave them alone. It doesn't mean that gluten free stuff is automatically non-fattening, but it's not available everywhere and costs more - this is part of the way it keeps you thin!

    I'm still taking lots of digestive aids, like betaine hcl for stomach acid and digestive enzymes. I'm nowhere near the train wreck I used to be. I dug deep for answers and had to learn alot about my own body. You can't expect anyone to fix this without doing a certain amount of the work yourself. I was using several supplements outside of what Dr. Farr recommended for me. I am definitely an expert in fixing my own body and since I have seen at least twenty different medical doctors and none of them did squat for me, I can only conclude that they only teach them how to administer drugs and surgery in medical school rather than how to fix a body. They can fix certain problems correctly, like a broken arm, but they still use a cast and the body does the work. The way they go about fixing certain things like acid reflux is like using a hammer and nail to fix the broken arm. They are guaranteed to make the problem worse.

    Doctors are taught to focus on a symptom and try to alleviate it with a drug. And since the symptom is addressed and not the root cause of the symptom, In the medical profession, the conditions of all patients are categorized into "normal" and "abnormal" by using statistical techniques. A diagnosis is usually based on this analysis of symptoms and they try to change the abnormal condition to a normal one without even knowing the basic cause or reason for a symptom. Because medical science has developed based on treatment of a symptom rather than as a result of real knowledge of the human body, it is very rare to detect an exact cause or reason for a medical symptom.

    A diagnosis is thus based on symptoms and then various drugs or methods are applied to treat the symptoms, usually one that has been proven by the inventor of the drug or method to be the most effective in laboratory experiments. And this is why doctors are useless for cfs. Because most of us have had and continue to have "normal" test results even when we feel like we're dying. They can't find drugs for us if our tests are all normal. And the way to build an income in private medical practice is to hook patients on drugs that continually require re-examination, testing and prescription renewal. So we just aren't good customers! The fibro people will get some drugs, at least pain killers, but since the root causes aren't addressed, these pain killers will make it worse since one of the more common root causes is a problem with the digestive system (which includes the guts/immune system) and NSAIDs wreck the whole digestive system.

    Even the most caring doctor is unable to help us because he doesn't know what gut dysbiosis and intestinal hyperpermeability can do to the immune system, the liver and the rest of the body. And he certainly doesn't know how to fix it. Drugs make money so drugs are pushed in medical school. That's just how that industry operates. It doesn't matter how effective something is, what matters is its patentability. Just ask the American Cancer Society, they don't want to have anything to do with a cure that isn't patentable - they say it plainly on their website.
    Cures are not good money makers. People are basically ignorant about the way the medical industry operates within these guidelines and they like it that way. Meanwhile, we all get ripped off for bogus treatments or we don't get treated at all.

    You have to get the proper tests done. Beware of medical doctors, they are useless in fixing these things, and beware of alternative doctors who don't use testing and instead rely on general recommendations for everybody. What is healthy for one person may not be healthy for another. And we have different things wrong in different organs and metabolic systems. That's why what works for some may not work for everybody. If you are not deficient in a certain supplement, like magnesium or coq10, then it won't work for you. That's not rocket science, but it's easier to try some things than to get them tested. Doctor's testing for magnesium levels are notoriously unreliable. And you'll have a hard time getting a doctor to even listen about coq10. But as for if you need digestive supplements, heavy metal chelation and immune system support, you have to have tests done or you could be wasting lots of time and money. And since this takes to long, you don't have time to waste. If you've been seeing a medical doctor, you've been wasting time already. It's impossible to predict what you'll need without some testing and without extensive experience, so choose your health care practitioner wisely. I already use Farr and there are also some doctors listed on beatcfsandfms.org.
  6. LISALOO

    LISALOO New Member

    What were the bacteria that you were able o get rid of?
  7. Catseye

    Catseye New Member

    These are just the baddies that were on my tests. There were some good guys, but not many. I still need more good guys, especially lactobacillus.

    On my first CDSA in March of last year, I had

    alpha haemolytic streptococcus
    gamma haemolytic streptococcus
    bacillus species
    citrobacter youngae
    yeast, not candida albicans
    candida albicans
    candida krusei

    On the next one, in May


    alpha haemolytic streptococcus
    gamma haemolytic streptococcus
    pseudomonas species
    enterobacter cloacae
    yeast, not candida albicans

    On the next one, in Sept

    alpha haemolytic streptococcus
    gamma haemolytic streptococcus
    bacillus species
    enterobacter cloacae
    klebsiella pneumoniae
    yeast, not candida albicans
    candida parapsilosis

    On the last one, in Jan

    alpha haemolytic streptococcus

    In October, I was getting pretty irritated with how long this was taking and took another in depth look at the complexities of LG to see if some of the foods I was eating may be slowing progress. I concluded that starches may in fact be a problem, so I cut way back on them. I'm adding some back now to see if I can handle them. I am eating starches like I was eating them before October. I'll do another CDSA in a few months. After they come back normal, I'll still do them every once in awhile to keep an eye on my "preventative maintenance" healthy eating.
  8. Catseye

    Catseye New Member

    bumping for kat
  9. Soil Based organisms help keep yeast in check. There used to be an expensive MLM that carried them, but Swansoin's has a good one too. It is best to get spore form, as those are tolerant to heat and freezing. I have been self identifying as IBS since 2003, and just happened to have arthritis, and I had that years before I retook my childhood vaccines, but the diarrhea began after I took the vaccines. it just made my life much worse. It has made it so things that used to help, like pine bark extract, from Kaire Intl', now do nothing.
    I did a comprehensive stool test about 4 years ago, and my results showed NO bacteria at all! I just can't imagine that, but that is what it said. And I too have been faithfully taking my SBO's and Lactobaccillus, and yogurt and everything I could to slow it down. No yeast either, No H pylori (i have a duodenal ulcer), no gluten intolerance (which has been confirmed through a biopsy, and about three other tests after that. My current natural doc tests me often on that one because i guess he just can't believe it.Lactose too. ) so the doc asked me what foods cause my diarrhea and i told him, no foods at all. it starts at 3 am, after fasting a few hours, He said "pitutitary". And I have been trying to resolve that ever since.
    I would highly recommend everyone also to go to stopthethyroidmadness and this gal is really on the ball and has learned a LOT. There are a lot of weird symptoms that are thyroid. I just figure, the diarrhea has caused deficiencies that have damaged my glands- simple B complex deficiencies- I have a rwar book written in 1914, when they were discovering the vitamins, and pigeons, rats and monkeys all showed bruising and ulcers on the intestine, stomach, enlargement of the adrenals etc, with B complex deficiency. I found a more recent study that showed stress and fasting caused ulcers in mice. So that goes back to the adrenal thing too. (also the thyroid and adrenal work together and fail together).
  10. IanH

    IanH Active Member

    I think what the test meant was that you have normal colonization.
    Also some comprehensive stool tests do not not test for H. Pylori. I presume if you have an ulcer that you were tested for antibodies to H. Pylori.

    "so the doc asked me what foods cause my diarrhea and i told him, no foods at all. it starts at 3 am, after fasting a few hours" This is a common ME/CFS trait and is not necessarily caused by specific foods. It may have something to do with the link between sleep and immune activity in the gut so causing AM diarrhea but less diarrhea in the evening.

    We have found that bovine colostrum and melatonin 30mg daily for three weeks stops this completely. This also suggests that the cause is immune dysfunction in the gut causing poor water uptake. This may also be the reason why many have night thirst.