toxic guts, toxic body, why do a comprehensive stool analysis

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia and ME & Chronic Fatigue Syndrome' started by Catseye, Mar 21, 2008.

  1. pw7575

    pw7575 New Member

    Hi Steph...hope you don't mind me answering this for Karen. Type in becomehealthynow that is where you will find him.

    Take Care,
    Pam
    [This Message was Edited on 10/02/2008]
  2. getwellgirl

    getwellgirl New Member

    Hi Karen and all

    Thought I would let you know about the difference I am already feeling, this being the 4th day of no fruit at all or of course any added sugar. I have noticed that there is some energy in my legs all the time whether it be first thing in the morning or on going to bed. This is something completely knew for me and has to be to do with not having any fruit. I have also been able to reduce my steroid by 2.5 mg which has to be good.

    Its amazing cos I only used to eat tiny amounts of berries at lunchtime and with my evening meal plus one half of an apple during my walk. I am wondering if it is also to do with stopping eating the Ryvita (rye crispbread) and oatcakes. Instead I have been having one piece of the sprouted wheat/flax bread for breakfast with lots of good protein and quinoa plus rice biscuits with almond butter plus some good cheese for snacks.

    I am still eating small amounts of some good cheddar cos it only has a tiny amount of carbs in it and my gut doesn't seem to be reacting to it and I really don't think there is any mold at all on it.

    I can still feel my gut reacting at times after eating and I think this will be the yeasts. I am taking more betaine HCL with my meals.

    I am starting Caprylic Acid today 400 mg with each meal plus a good probiotic twice daily. Also I am going to start with a milk thistle and dandelion capsule with each meal to help with the liver.

    I have also ordered some ImmunePro RX whey to boost my immune system but this won't be here until next week.

    Thanks again Karen for reminding me of the importance of our guts and also what we put in them!!


    BW
    Pam
  3. Atlanta8

    Atlanta8 New Member

    Just looking him up now.

    But WHY do all these docs have to have moustaches! It makes it hard to trust them! :p
  4. pw7575

    pw7575 New Member

    LOL so true on the mustaches Steph!!!! That cracked me up.

    Pam :)
  5. Catseye

    Catseye New Member

    I thought I answered this the other day, but I guess I forgot! I'm glad the low carb thing is working, nice to know I'm not suffering through it alone. I'm starting to get carb crazy, finally, after 7 months of a low carb diet. I'm hoping my last test will show I can have some. I'll know next week.

    Be careful with milk products. The damage they do is not something you can readily tell. It could just be liver congestion or damage to the intestines, which will show up as long term problems, not immediately after eating. One clue is hay fever or sinus symptoms. If you have none of these, and no itching, maybe it's okay for you. And I'm sure the betaine hcl will help with everything.

    And pam and atlanta

    Yeah, those big, hairy moustaches are sinister, aren't they?
  6. Catseye

    Catseye New Member

    ???????Well, good and bad results from the latest stool test. I had tried to introduce some other foods into my diet, and Dr. Farr had mentioned if symptoms returned, I'd have to stop. But I was getting bored with the diet after several months, and craving some other things which I thought might be safe, so I talked him into letting me try some things. Big mistake. I added tomato avocado salad with onions, garlic and balsamic vinegar.

    Vinegar is supposed to be bad if you have yeast, but since my second test indicated the yeast was gone, I decided to risk it. Long story short, I cheated with a few carbs a few times, had the tomato avocado salad almost daily for a couple of months, and now I have some yeast again and much more bad bacteria.

    I am now back on the original diet and will not even have a smidgen of a taste of a cheating food or condiment. To see the results of a few cheats on paper, and knowing that I pretty much backslid in my progress, has cured me of viewing my hard core low carb diet as "boring." Now it is "medicine" that I cannot do without.

    The guts are obviously so volatile, that even a bite or two of some seemingly innocuous food is going to upset the already upset balance of gut flora even more than it already is. So this is what it is: if you are doing a half ass job of a candida/flora control diet, it's not going to work. You do it or you don't do it. The tiniest aversion from the diet can throw the whole thing off. And since progress is measured in months, it's just not worth it. If one day, you have a bad hair day or PMS or get aggravated and decide you want a small piece of chocolate, or whatever, it will ruin much of what you've worked for. Do not do it. One small cheat can set you back 2 months.

    I had a few cheating bites, not even like a half of a dessert or a whole piece of bread. Just a few bites - some berries, some raw chocolate, some mushrooms and some honey on different days. And the yeast and bacteria flourished from it. I also went to the dentist for a cleaning and he said I have gingivitis, an indication of a stressed immune system. Okay, enough kicking myself in the butt, here's about my test:

    My phospholipids came down even more, this is a sign of increased function of the liver and gallbladder. I also had a better balance of short chained fatty acids. So this is good news.

    I still have no lactobacillus bacteria, even though I was taking a lot of it. Apparently, my cheating was enough to give the bad guys enough strength to stay AND to eat the good guys, so I committed yet more savagery against the innocent probiotics by sacrificing them to the bad guys.

    Also helping the bad bacteria is the presence of metals, which were high in the metals test I did a couple of months ago. They seem to lock in the bad bacteria and since I can't do the chelation for them, we'll have to figure out another way to get rid of them. I couldn't do the metal chelation because of diuretic herbs in the chelation supps that made me pee all night long and get way too dehydrated.

    One other thing, I'm supposed to keep carbs to under 75 per day and to get them from veggies, mostly. So I'm back on ONLY chicken, eggs, beef, fish (no shellfish), raw nuts and seeds, crackers made from raw nuts 'n seeds 'n veggies, and veggies (no root veggies or starches AT ALL). The only condiments I'm using are celtic sea salt, olive oil, lime juice and some spices. And that's it until this is over, no matter how long it takes. THIS is the horror of cfs treatment: the dreaded anti-yeast, anti-bacteria diet which allows NO cheating and takes MONTHS. If it was an easy diet, people would be doing it and getting better right and left.

    All I can conclude from this is that many cfs sufferers are perpetuating much of their problems because they are eating too many carbs and the wrong kind. You don't know the state of your gut flora without a test and it is extremely sensitive and fickle. So quit watching tv commercials about yummy cheating foods and summon up that willpower, you're going to need it. But just think, if you're overweight, you'll lose those extra pounds, too!

    I'll be doing another lyme flow cytometry test soon, too, to see what the bacterial count is. Hopefully, it's gone down a bit.

    I still feel great and at least I'm on the right track. It's just a very slow fix. Bummer.

    karen
  7. getwellgirl

    getwellgirl New Member

    Hi Karen

    Thanks for letting us know how you are doing but sorry to hear that you are still having to be so strict with your diet, its so hard denying yourself all the time but I understand that there are huge benefits.

    I have posted the results of my CDSA test on a new thread, perhaps you could have a look.

    My main problem is a very high PH of 8.1 higher than yours was plus lactobacillus at only 1 whereas it should be 4. The other beneficial bacteria wasn't too bad at all at 4 and 3. I have been adding more betaine hcl but have just started getting some burning so dropping back to 1000mg with each meal and half of that with a snack.

    Where it mentions additional bacteria I did have Mucoid Escheria coli at 4 but it says this is a non-pathogen.

    Another main problem was a yeast called Geotrichum species which mimics Candida. It showed up at a 2 whereas it should be zero. This explains my gut bloating, rumbling etc and also can cause the high PH though my adrenal insufficiency and thyroid disease would contribute to my low energy body.

    I think I know where I could have got this yeast from. In the 90s I used to buy raw goat milk direct from the farm and this yeast can come from dairy products. I also had Compylobacter poisoning twice at the end of the 90s before I crashed with CFS in 2000.

    I am lucky that the test shows good digestion and absorption (I was still taking 600mg hcl plus proteolytic enzymes when doing the test to see if this was sufficient to help digestion and absorption and it has been successful). Also an excellent amount of beneficial short chain and long chain fatty acids.

    One thing that has become worse since starting the no sugar no fruit diet plus caprylic acid, and good probiotics daily is that my gut is rumbling and rolling and bloating far more than it did so I guess this is the yeasts being stirred up. Also I have been having horrible 3 days migraines which means my liver hasn't been able to deal with the die-off so I cut back to 3 caprylic acid instead of the 6 I went up to last week and I am having an acupuncture session today to generally give my body a boost.

    I am definitely carrying on with the diet but its going to be difficult cos we are going to a good hotel in the New Forest here in England on Sunday for 3 nights and the food will be so tempting!!! If I do cheat I do have some Amphoceterin B lozenges which I could take which should knock the yeasts on the head because this particular yeast I have is sucseptible to it as is Flucanazole. However in the long term I don't want to use drugs, I want to do it naturally as much as possible but if I have to resort to drugs to kill it off then I will.

    If I am honest I don't think its the complete reason my mitochondria are low in ATP and run out quickly (I have been tested for this and have the proof) I am sure my adrenal insufficiency and thyroid disease have predisposed me to getting the yeasts etc but it would be lovely if I was proved wrong! How wonderful it would be if this yeast was robbing my body of the ATP.

    On a final point I was mercury poisoned but last year the level had dropped down to normal after having my fillings safely removed 6 years ago and I did chelation too. However last year I still had a massive problem with nickel, it was in my blood and mitochondria so I need to do a retest in the New Year to see if there is any improvement. Probably should wait until the yeast is gone before getting the nickel retested cos there is a definite connection with heavy metals.

    Hope you are coping ok with serious low carbing!

    Best Wishes
    Pam
  8. Jgavi

    Jgavi New Member

    THANKS FOR LETTING US KNOW ALL THE DETAILS--IT WILL HELP!
  9. MIssAutumn

    MIssAutumn New Member

    I'm just starting my tests. I will do the saliva and urine on Sunday and will get the blood test and stool in a few days. Very curious to see what the results will be. Oh and also testing for Lyme and hepatitis. I gave blood a few years ago and the head office of Blood Source sent a letter saying they have never seen results of the testing like I had and didn't know what it meant. Of, course!! I have Fibro LOL so I won't give blood at all.
    Karen you are right it is now down to science and no more guessing. What a sense of relief to finally have some answers. It has been almost 50 years since I felt normal, what ever that is and now after all this time I'll find out what it's like to be a semi normal 62 year old LOL

    I forgot to ask about the email address if you remember you can ask for mine.

    thanks again for the sharing this.
  10. pw7575

    pw7575 New Member

    Hi Karen...thanks for updating us. That sucks that the food you ate set you back. But at least you know now and will be that much more diligent.

    As far as your metal chelation what herbs did he have you on for that? I am only asking because I was going to suggest brown seaweed. I have been reading about that recently and have heard that it is good for chelating metals and also just very good for the health in general. You can take it in pill form which is supposed to be good and it is called Modifilan. There are other forms of it like Limu Juice but I think this one is supposed to be best and more powerful. Be careful though. They recommend I think 6 pills a day but I know Slaydragon only took a small bit of one pill and it gave her a huge reaction. She was using it for mold toxins etc I believe.

    Also Chlorella is supposed to be good for chelation too and I think Spriulina too. It probably is since they are all algae. So basically you may want to look into algae for chelation if that is acceptable with your diet etc.

    I am actually trying to get my doctor to order the CDSA 2.0 from Genova like you had done. Last time he said he didn't have a problem with it but wanted me to check with my insurance company. My insurance said it should be covered so I am going to try to get him to order it on Monday. I hope he still will even though I now tested postitive for Lyme Disease. I am worried that now that I have a diagnosis that he won't think it is necessary to run the test. But it would still be very helpful to have it done so I can work on my gut while working on the Lyme.

    Marcia actually just had a stool analysis done too and got some good info from it that she is using to help in her treatment. So we have been talking about this issue on the other board recently as well.

    Hopefully my doctor will order the test. If he does I will let you know what it turns up.

    Thanks for keeping us posted!

    Pam :)
    [This Message was Edited on 10/17/2008]
  11. Catseye

    Catseye New Member


    I had a +4 of these bacteria:

    gamma haemolytic streptococcus
    slpha haemolytic streptococcus
    bacillus species
    enterobacter cloacae
    klebsiella pneumoniae

    They don't sound so good, do they!?

    And I had yeast, +1 of yeast, not candida and
    +2 of candida parapsilosis.

    And my lactobacillus was zero!

    I had +4 of escherichia coli and
    +1 of bifidobacterium

    I must have a seriously whacked gut to be on this strict diet and still end up with this. What a pain in the ass this is!

    getwellgirl, It's probably more like the yeast and bacteria are interfering with digestion and that's what's robbing your mitos of the nutrients they need to build ATP. Plus the body needs to make its own metabolites, too, which you need for ATP. If you don't digest well, you're low on nutrients and then you can't make all the metabolites you need, either, so you're low on those. I'll go look at your other thread.

    I'm coping with low carbs now even more than ever because it's looking more and more like this is going to be my new lifetime permanent diet. If that's what it takes, then so be it. I watched someone eat fresh baked apple pie a la mode tonight and it was slightly depressing. I won't ever be having that again unless I make some serious substitutions and only then if I pass a stool test which shows I can have some sweets. But my will is focused on healing the gut no matter what I need to do.

    JGAVI - you're welcome, this is definitely something to consider if you've already tried everything else. I'm sure gut dysbiosis is rampant with CFS.

    MissAutumn - OMG that's a long time! At least now you have a chance at being normal again. I'm still working on it. I guess I'm thankful I've only been away from normal about 5-6 years.

    pw7575 - I was on porphyrazyme for the metals and then some minerals, calcium and selenium. Here's what's in the porphyra zyme:

    Each tablet supplies:
    Vitamin C (as ascorbic acid). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 120 mg
    Proprietary Blend: . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 210 mg
    Spinach (concentrate and extract) (leaves and stems), Mulberry (extract) (leaves), Beet Leaf Powder, and Vegetable Culture Concentrate (from non-soy legumes)
    Porphyra-Zyme™ supplies botanical extracts and concentrates providing naturally occurring Chlorophyllin, Galactoglycerides, Chlorophyll (a and b), Phospholipids, Carotenoids, Sulfolipids, Plastoquinones (a, b, and c), Menadione, Cytochrome B6 and F, Plastocyanine, Ferridoxin and trace minerals.

    I put those chelators you listed in my next question list for Dr. Farr, thanks. Right now, since I couldn't do the chelators he was used to, we've put it on hold and I haven't been adressing the metals. He said the bad bacteria helps keep the metals around so that's our main focus right now. So let's see if he'll let me use these. I used to take chlorella and not have a problem with it.

  12. MIssAutumn

    MIssAutumn New Member

    Karen, got mine today. I just started laughing when I saw it! I needed that thanks. Been a rough two days I have barely been able to get off the couch, scary! Never had that happen in all the years I've had this crud.

    Thanks for the laugh

    Sarah
  13. ellikers

    ellikers New Member

    Okay, here is the short version of my results (I had a less comprehensive report than it sound like many of you have, still, it's good information).

    - Negative for all parasites and yeast
    - Negative for antigens for giardia, cryptosporidium, toxoplasma, ameba histolytica
    - Normal intestinal lysozyme

    - H.pylori- borderline positive (3-5.5 U/ml)
    - Low intestinal SIgA (250 mg, normal range is 400-880)
    - High alpha anti-chymotrypsin (173, between 100-180 indicates mild/distal colitis- inflammation of the colon)
    - Low chymotrypsin (8, normal range is 9 and above, this indicates my pancreatic output of digestive enzymes is low)


    Also showed negative for antibodies to milk, soy, eggs and wheat.


    Soooooo......

    (1) I just finished my round of anti-biotics for the h.pylori bacteria (this was tested for in May or April but showed up negative, grrr).

    (2) New regimen:
    - digestive enzyme with meals (malodextrin, amylase, protease, celluase, lipase, lac. acidophilus and bifido. longum)
    - probiotics in the morning (mixed in with warm applesauce to "activate" them- suggested by my Nurse Practitioner)
    - re-added flaxseed oil for omega-3s (help cut down on inflammation among other things)
    - slippery elm between meals to rebuild stomach and intestinal lining
    - still taking GI encap formula with meals (helps digestion and rebuild mucous membranes of GI tract)

    Funny thing is, my digestive system wasn't all that problematic before ... I think it was much worse more than four years ago, and I think I held these problems at bay with all the rest of the good stuff I was doing, but I'm glad we are creating optimal health for me!
  14. pw7575

    pw7575 New Member

    Karen...I wonder what it is about that porphyrazyme that caused you to have problems with it. I guess maybe a combo of things in it were diuretic. Definitely let me know what Dr. Farr says about the chelators. Hopefully he will say they are fine to use...especially since you said you have used the chlorella before and were ok with it. Would be great if any of those worked out for the chelating. I am very curious to see what he says.

    Pam :)
  15. restauranthell

    restauranthell New Member

    Hi
    I was, as always, following this thread of Karen's. First off I wanted to say thank you Karen for getting me to Dr.Farr. Without your posts pointing me to him, I would not have made the progress I have over this summer. He has been very very helpful. Thank you.

    Getwellgirl, Do you know where your nickel came from? I am also high in nickel but not especially high in mercury or any other metal.

    and what test did you do for your mitos?
    Thank you too.
    Chris
  16. Catseye

    Catseye New Member

    pam, I thought I answered this, but I guess it got lost on cyberspace! I'm sure it's the diuretics in the porphyrazyme, I've had problems with certain diuretic herbs. They just set off my kidneys, I'm pretty sure they have sustained some damage from being overloaded with toxins and the chemo. I can't even have coffee. I had asked him about the chelators and he isn't familiar with any other ones so he said we'll just work on the guts still and get to the metals later. I asked him about doing just chlorella and he said to not do any until we figure out something later. I'll probably ask him again now that I see Biotics Research makes a chlorella cap. He did say that dysbiosis goes along with metals, so maybe if I fix the one, the other will resolve itself.

    I'm researching leaky gut syndrome as in depth as I can get now. I want to know what foods, what spices and what supps may irritate the lining and slow the healing process. It's such a slow fix, it's probably why people don't even bother. It's frustrating to have to give up foods we've always eaten. I've already found some interesting stuff I didn't know, for example:

    "Most of the damage resulting from bacterial overgrowth is caused by bacterial enzyme activity. Bacterial mucinase destroys the protective mucus coat; proteinases degrade pancreatic and brush border enzymes and attack structural proteins. Bacteria produce vitamin B12 analogues and uncouple the B12-intrinsic factor complex, reducing circulating B12 levels"

    LG is a horrible thing to have happen to the body, probably 90% of us have it. If anyone doubts it, they can get an intestinal permeability test done - the intestinal permeability test uses two non metabolized sugars, lactulose and mannitol, and urine analysis to give an indication of leakiness between the cells of the intestinal lining as well as altered absorption through the cells. This is the test I'll use to see when it's cured. I know I have it so I'm not bothering with the test right now.

    restauranthell - is that a reference to McD's? Or Burger Thing? hehe
    I sure do miss BK's chicken sandwiches. But I guess I won't ever have one again unless they make a gluten free, hydrogenated oil free version one day -

    you're welcome and I hope you continue to have good luck with him, I'll actually be meeting him face to face, soon!
  17. getwellgirl

    getwellgirl New Member

    Sorry I haven't replied sooner but couldn't find the thread and this past week I have been so ill with a very nasty throat virus which turned into a severe infection that made me feel like death. Thankfully the Ceflexin has helped me to feel human again and I am able to go out thankfully. Haven't had many infections as bad as this one and its very disappointing cos I was doing extremely well before.

    Firstly with regard to the nickel I don't know where it came from. Dr Myhill is my CFS doctor and she is finding it in a very high number of her patients. As I also have a trace of lindane showing and was mercury poisoned too I think its to do with not methylating properly, therefore I wasn't detoxifying either. In the New Year I will get a retest of my mitochondrial function again and see what is still showing up. As you probably know Rich VanK is the person who knows so much about methylation and has guided us as what to do about it. For me over the past 2 years I have been taking a high dose of active folate daily together with 1000mcg methylcobalamin, P5P and lots of betaine too. No problems with any of these supplements. I also bought an infrared sauna and have used it fairly consistently over the past 2 years so hopefully I should get some better results when I do get retested.

    With regard to the treatment of the Geotrichum yeast its been going pretty well and within 4 weeks I noticed I had consistent energy, something very unusual for me, since getting CFS I cannot remember ever having consistent energy. Also before catching this bug my sleep was amazing I really thought I had licked those insomnia problems.

    Unfortunately since this bug and taking lots of herbs like Astragalus, Echinacea and Cats Claw its been a disaster. My sleep has been dreadful and I have also had a racing heart and high pulse throughout. It would seem that this herbs have messed up my thyroid (I have Hashimotos thyroid disease and take 2 grains Naturethyroid daily though I have had to cut back since this bug), Its also hit my energy level really badly but with my thyroid going hyper this alone can do it. Its happened to me before and I notice Echinacea is called a stimulant. Naturally I have stopped all these herbs now and will reintroduce the Cats Claw gradually. I am still taking Andrographis to help with my angry red throat so don't think that's causing a problem but if I have problems sleeping tonight I will stop that too.

    A good sign today (day 8 since the bug started and 4 days in with the Ceflaxin) is that I was able to go shopping this morning and actually felt good energy. Yesterday was the last day of taking the Astragalus and Cats Claw and I also took half my thyroid meds so my pulse is getting more normal so guess that's why my energy has been better.

    I am still waiting to start the Immunocal which I ordered 5 weeks ago because I keep being promised it but it never arrives. That should help my IS which is obviously still rubbish even though there are far less yeasts around. I am pretty certain the yeasts are dying off because the vaginal discharge is far less at last and my gut is much calmer after eating. A few days ago cos I am on the antibiotics I also started VSL3, one packet a day. Its supposed to be about the best probiotic around, I did a month's course a year ago and it got rid of the discharge then but of course I wasn't strict enough about my diet after that and also had 3 lots of antibitocs because of severe throat infections.

    Because I have felt so unwell I could hardly eat much food I did reintroduce a few raspberries but only once a day and will monitor what happens.

    On a final point its become so obvious to me the basic problem why we have these yeast issues is because our immune systems are so poor. They should be attacking and killing the yeasts but mine doesn't, either it doesn't recognise them as bad or its too weak to kill them, just like it cannot kill off the bugs that cause these severe throat infections I get. So far this year its been 4.

    It does worry me cos if my IS cannot deal with yeasts and bugs surely cancer is just around the corner? Cancer is very prevalent in my family, my mother died of it and both my grandmothers had breast cancer, one suriviing it the other dying from it.

    For me taking good herbs just doesn't help me at all, in fact they end up making me worse by messing up my thyroid. Fingers crossed the Immunocal will help my IS if not I will have to look for something stronger on a permanent basis, maybe lipoceutical glutathione.

    BTW I have always had a very weak IS and I think this must be connected to the heavy metal poisoning I have had and also being poisoned by the thimerosol that would have been in all the injections I had as a kid and teenager.

    Hope Karen that you are doing better. I worked out I was taking around 65 gms carbs a day but that was before I added back a few raspberries. Karen I wasn't sure from my results (on separate thread) if I had a leaky gut or not. I think it looked as if I didn't cos no bad bacteria or malabsorption/digestion just the high PH and yeast plus low lactobacillus.

    Pam
  18. getwellgirl

    getwellgirl New Member

    Sorry I haven't replied sooner but couldn't find the thread and this past week I have been so ill with a very nasty throat virus which turned into a severe infection that made me feel like death. Thankfully the Ceflexin has helped me to feel human again and I am able to go out thankfully. Haven't had many infections as bad as this one and its very disappointing cos I was doing extremely well before.

    Firstly with regard to the nickel I don't know where it came from. Dr Myhill is my CFS doctor and she is finding it in a very high number of her patients. As I also have a trace of lindane showing and was mercury poisoned too I think its to do with not methylating properly, therefore I wasn't detoxifying either. In the New Year I will get a retest of my mitochondrial function again and see what is still showing up. As you probably know Rich VanK is the person who knows so much about methylation and has guided us as what to do about it. For me over the past 2 years I have been taking a high dose of active folate daily together with 1000mcg methylcobalamin, P5P and lots of betaine too. No problems with any of these supplements. I also bought an infrared sauna and have used it fairly consistently over the past 2 years so hopefully I should get some better results when I do get retested.

    With regard to the treatment of the Geotrichum yeast its been going pretty well and within 4 weeks I noticed I had consistent energy, something very unusual for me, since getting CFS I cannot remember ever having consistent energy. Also before catching this bug my sleep was amazing I really thought I had licked those insomnia problems.

    Unfortunately since this bug and taking lots of herbs like Astragalus, Echinacea and Cats Claw its been a disaster. My sleep has been dreadful and I have also had a racing heart and high pulse throughout. It would seem that this herbs have messed up my thyroid (I have Hashimotos thyroid disease and take 2 grains Naturethyroid daily though I have had to cut back since this bug), Its also hit my energy level really badly but with my thyroid going hyper this alone can do it. Its happened to me before and I notice Echinacea is called a stimulant. Naturally I have stopped all these herbs now and will reintroduce the Cats Claw gradually. I am still taking Andrographis to help with my angry red throat so don't think that's causing a problem but if I have problems sleeping tonight I will stop that too.

    A good sign today (day 8 since the bug started and 4 days in with the Ceflaxin) is that I was able to go shopping this morning and actually felt good energy. Yesterday was the last day of taking the Astragalus and Cats Claw and I also took half my thyroid meds so my pulse is getting more normal so guess that's why my energy has been better.

    I am still waiting to start the Immunocal which I ordered 5 weeks ago because I keep being promised it but it never arrives. That should help my IS which is obviously still rubbish even though there are far less yeasts around. I am pretty certain the yeasts are dying off because the vaginal discharge is far less at last and my gut is much calmer after eating. A few days ago cos I am on the antibiotics I also started VSL3, one packet a day. Its supposed to be about the best probiotic around, I did a month's course a year ago and it got rid of the discharge then but of course I wasn't strict enough about my diet after that and also had 3 lots of antibitocs because of severe throat infections.

    Because I have felt so unwell I could hardly eat much food I did reintroduce a few raspberries but only once a day and will monitor what happens.

    On a final point its become so obvious to me the basic problem why we have these yeast issues is because our immune systems are so poor. They should be attacking and killing the yeasts but mine doesn't, either it doesn't recognise them as bad or its too weak to kill them, just like it cannot kill off the bugs that cause these severe throat infections I get. So far this year its been 4.

    It does worry me cos if my IS cannot deal with yeasts and bugs surely cancer is just around the corner? Cancer is very prevalent in my family, my mother died of it and both my grandmothers had breast cancer, one suriviing it the other dying from it.

    For me taking good herbs just doesn't help me at all, in fact they end up making me worse by messing up my thyroid. Fingers crossed the Immunocal will help my IS if not I will have to look for something stronger on a permanent basis, maybe lipoceutical glutathione.

    BTW I have always had a very weak IS and I think this must be connected to the heavy metal poisoning I have had and also being poisoned by the thimerosol that would have been in all the injections I had as a kid and teenager.

    Hope Karen that you are doing better. I worked out I was taking around 65 gms carbs a day but that was before I added back a few raspberries. Karen I wasn't sure from my results (on separate thread) if I had a leaky gut or not. I think it looked as if I didn't cos no bad bacteria or malabsorption/digestion just the high PH and yeast plus low lactobacillus.

    Pam
  19. Catseye

    Catseye New Member

    The gut permeability test will show leaky gut. I think it's a matter of the state of the intestinal lining rather than if you have bad bacteria or not. The yeast aggravate it badly, because they supposedly put out "roots" that go through the lining and also because:

    "Candida exudes an aldehyde secretion which causes small intestine epithelial cells to shrink. This allows intestinal toxins to infiltrate through the epithelium and into the blood. The secondary barrier - immune agents in the epithelial mucus -remain the sole agent for neutralization. Eventually, the immune system becomes exhausted rising to this challenge.

    Many people have an erroneous belief that the Candida itself enters the blood stream, allowing it to be deposited elsewhere, such as the brain. Unless the immune response is completely depleted, as in AIDS, Candida is quickly destroyed in the blood. The real damage done by Candida is to the intestinal epithelial barrier, allowing the absorption of serious toxic agents and chemicals, which then enter the blood and affect numerous organs, including the brain"

    This is just a sample of the horrible LG stuff I've found recently. It gets worse, I'm trying to summarize the important, gross things which may resonate with people and wake them up.

    If you have LG, there are some steps have have to take:

    1. Change the environment in the guts to one where the bad pathogens can't survive and the good ones can grow.

    2. Kill, starve or crowd out the "baddies".

    3. Protect the lining from further damage by avoiding foods that aggravate the lining and cause the production of anitbodies.

    4. Take substances like herbs and nutrients that repair the gut lining.

    Leaky gut involves many vicious cycles at the same time, so it's not something that is going to resolve itself. One of the vicious cycles I'm talking about is the maldigestion making available putrefying food, nutrients and acidity to the pathogens which thrive on these things. They overpopulate since they grow well in these conditions and that worsens the damage. This kind of damage needs aggressive attention and treatment.

    What about trying raw crushed garlic (or you can chew it if you have testicles) for the yeast and infection? It's much safer and more effective than antibiotics. I just licked another ear infection with it. How did the test indicate no maldigestion? What were the chomotrypsin and butyrate levels? If you feel this bad, you should count on having LG rather than ruling it out. I can't remember your diet, are you eating lots of nonstarchy veggies and no gluten or dairy? I may have asked you this a couple of times already, but my brain is just a big lump of cheese some days and memory is blocked by a big, spongy wall that I can't seem to push through! Sorry!

    Once somebody confirms it, then you will see the difference between someone who really wants to get well and is willing to put forth all their efforts by changing everything they put in their mouths and the people who are still unwilling to give up the foods they love. And it's much harder if you don't have a plan of exactly what to eat and what to avoid. LG is such a hard fix, requiring complete diet change, more supps and willpower of steel, all over a period of months, that people would rather be in denial and assume they don't have it. I can't blame them, but you can't fix CFS without fixing LG if you have it. It's the reason for the nutritional deficiencies and the malfunctioning immune system.

    I guess a person could be safe and eat nothing but chicken and vegetables, but it's still better to get the proper tests. Maybe a gut permeability test confirming leaky gut would be enough for some people to give up the foods and substances that are preventing them from healing. I know someone with lupus but they are probably even now still sucking down gallons of diet pepsi. Just because you can't see an obvious connection between what you have and what you are ingesting doesn't mean it's okay to keep ingesting it.

  20. Catseye

    Catseye New Member