Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by ljimbo42, Feb 22, 2013.

  1. ljimbo42

    ljimbo42 Active Member

    There is no doubt in my mind that toxins play a HUGE role in my illness. I use to get flu-like flares that lasted 7-10 days, 2-3 a month, every month, year round and they felt just like the flu. In fact it was the only time I had to take aleve because I felt so miserable it was the only way I could tolerate the symptoms.

    I started taking dandelion root and worked my way up to 4-6 grams a day. That was almost a year ago and I have not had a flu-like flare that lasted 7-10 days since then. In fact most of the flares I have now only last a day or two, often now only hours.

    Toxins are known to cause flu-like symptoms, just google symptoms of detoxification and you will see- chills, fatigue, nausea, headache, aches and pains etc. Sounds a lot like symptoms of cfs/fm.

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    [This Message was Edited on 02/24/2013]
  2. ljimbo42

    ljimbo42 Active Member

    That's great that you have so few flares. Grape seed extract is a powerful antioxidant and it's on my list of things to buy. : )
    [This Message was Edited on 02/23/2013]
  3. Forebearance

    Forebearance Member

    Hi ljimbo42,

    Maybe you would appreciate this website:

    It talks about one category of toxins.

    Neuroinflammation can sure explain many of our symptoms. And this category of toxins can sure cause neuroinflammation.

  4. Forebearance

    Forebearance Member

    You can also find articles in the library here about Rich Van Konynenberg's Simplified Methylation Protocol. Those might interest you.
  5. ljimbo42

    ljimbo42 Active Member

    I just took a quick peek at that toxin website, I'll take a better look tomorrow. I've been on the web researching ways to get well almost all day and my eyes are getting weary. : )

    I have studied rich's methylation protocol extensively and I am certain it has to be addressed before I can get well.

    Right now though I can't tolerate the supplements until I first lower the toxic load in my body. But it's on my list! Thanks again-Jim
    [This Message was Edited on 02/23/2013]
  6. mbofov

    mbofov Active Member

    It sounds like you might need to do a liver detox. Several years ago I would periodically feel sick, similar to what you described. At that time a single glass of wine would make me sick for a day, and 2 glasses would make me sick for 2 or 3 days. I was very sensitive to meds and supplements.

    My chiro who did muscle testing found that my liver was overloaded with toxins so could not filter properly. I did a liver detox under his supervision using products from Standard Process (parotid and cholacol II). It was a bit rough, but I stuck it out for a month and my liver has been much better ever since.

    I had a job when I was 19 where I had heavy exposure to chemical solvents which I think were part of the problem.

    I started taking milk thistle thereafter and also hydrochloric acid with meals and my overall digestion is much better. I still have some problems with detoxing, but now it's only when I'm doign something specific to cause a detox, e.g., taking dsma for mercury or a few other things. But I tolerate wine just fine now (in moderation of course!) and don't get those flu-like symptoms out of the blue like I used to.

    I still have CFS - post-exertional malaise,. I still crash if I do more than a few hours of moderate exertion on any day, and my immune system is still weak.

    So having an overload of toxins is not the same as CFS, although many people with CFS do have problems with toxins. I don't know how it all works.

    My chiro who did muscle testing helped me so much, so that's what I always recommend. You can go to the Standard Process website and call customer service and they will give you the names of practitioners in your area who use their products (and hence do muscle testing) or you can just call chiros from the phone book. I would have been lost without him. No doctor was able to help me with this.

    Dandelion is very good for the liver so it makes sense that it's helping you but it sounds like you may need to do a liver detox as well, and maybe add in milk thistle which is excellent for the liver.

  7. ljimbo42

    ljimbo42 Active Member

    I did a cdsa (comprehensive digestive stool analysis) and found out I have a Pseudomonas aeruginosa overgrowth. Also my dysbiosis index, on a scale on 0-20, 0 being the best and 20 being the worst, was a 18!

    I believe that caused my leaky gut and the toxins from the pseudomonas bacteria are getting into my blood stream causing immune reactions and a lot of inflammation, mitochondrial dysfunction and a methylation block causing my symptoms.

    P.aeruginosa creates a toxin called "endotoxin A" which is very toxic and works similarly to the diptheria toxin, which is really nasty.

    p.aeruginasa is a very difficulf bug to kill even with antibiotics, they usually have to give people a combination of 2 antibiotics to get rid of it and that often don't work without repeated treatment.

    Mine probably overgrew because I have taken many courses of antibiotics and they killed a lot of my healthy intestinal flora, but the most resistant bacteria, the aeruginosa, just flourished.

    You can find p.aeruginosa anywhere, food, water, soil. A lot of people have this as part of there normal intestinal flora. It is an opportunistic bug, meaning when condition are right. Like say, to many courses of antibiotics, to many sugars in the diet, high stress, a lot of alcohol etc. It can become pathogenic like mine has.

    This is not the only bacteria like this by the way. There are many bacteria like this in are digestive tracts that are harmless unless given the opportunity to overgrow and become pathogenic.

    Toxins can cause glutathione depletion because of all the oxidative stress they create, bringing down glutathione levels, and creating a partial methylation block (rich's theory), which I firmly believe.

    They can also cause mitochondrial dysfunction in virtually every cell that blood goes to carrying toxins, which is all of them. Again by means of oxidative stress within the cells.

    I am still doing a lot of research, but I feel like I have a pretty good picture of what is going on with me and I am treating myself accordingly.

    All the best, Jim
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  8. mbofov

    mbofov Active Member

    I'm glad to hear you have such a good idea of what's going on - it and does sound like you have a pretty good handle on it.

    I had a test a few years ago which showed protein malabsorption, maldigestion and gut bacteria dysbiosis. I don't know what bacteria was involved. My doctor's recommendation included hydrochloric acid with meals and pancreatin (8x - 10 x strength) at the end of meals. These were to help normalize gut bacteria and help with digestion. Also had to take a good probiotic and branched chain amino acids (in addition to all my regular supps). I read somewhere that sufficient hydrochloric acid is needed for proper gut bacteria. It wasn't just to digest food. So you might look into this as well, and I tihnk the pancreatin was to serve the same function.

    Anyways, good luck - you are doing your homework! :)

  9. ljimbo42

    ljimbo42 Active Member

    I agree with you about the hydrochloric acid. It is good for digestion and to help keep bad bugs in check. I have tried taking it many times, but even in very small amounts (25mg) it makes my IBS flare.

    So unfortunately I can't take rate now. I take a very good quality digestive enzyme called biocore, and lots of it. I also take a probiotic with 10-12 strains in it, and each capsule has 66 billion probiotics.

    It's my understanding that all pathogenic bacteria in the gut thrive on carbs, all carbs. I actually tried to treat my bacterial overgrowth with huge amounts of anti-biotic herbs, but it didn't do anything until I changed my diet.

    I have found a low carb diet works better than all the anti-biotic herbs and probiotics I could throw at it. I was taking vsl #3 with 450 billion probiotics per pouch, 1-2 pouches a day (so 450-900 billion a day) for about a year and again, it didn't help at all.

    I started a low carb diet in November and that's when I started to feel better. I had eczema on my face for years that cleared up 80% within 3 weeks of starting the low carb diet. I was still eating about 100gms of carbs a day though, which was too much.

    So a few days ago I cut back even further to 50 grams of carbs a day or less. I started to feel my energy come up within 24 hours of cutting back on the carbs again. It is now clear to me that a low carb diet is crucial for me to get well. Thanks mary,-good luck on this bumpy ride!
    : ) Jim
  10. mbofov

    mbofov Active Member

    Very interesting about the low carb diet helping you so much - I'm really glad to hear it. I have been eating rather low carb for several years, primarily as a weight control measure as I can't exercise due to post-exertional malaise. I have read about many people being helped by this type of diet, and by cutting out wheat in particular.

    Anyways, you are right - it is a bumpy ride indeed! (or a roller coaster, or even Mr. Toad's Wild Ride, I could go on and on ..... :)

    Best wishes--