Transfer Factor Purge

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by Mikie, Sep 21, 2011.

  1. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    As some of you know, I'm big on the Transfer Factors because I believe they can help get Herpes Family Viruses under control better than AV's. I took both and even after about a year and a half on AV's, I still had strong Herx-like purging with the TF's. I haven't taken them in a while so ordered some new TF 200 and have taken a few capsules several days apart. I've had a strong immune reaction and now, purging with diarrhea. That likely means my immune system went on a big killing spree and my body is purging the toxic dead pathogens.

    TF's are like little oral vaccines and the immunity imparted isn't permanent. Just like with traditional vaccinations, you have to have a booster dose every now and then. Herpes Family Viruses are very tricky and can fool the immune system into ignoring them. The TF's wake the immune system up. People with our illnesses often have chronic EBV, CMV and HHV-6. The HHV-6 is especially resistant to AV's. Herpes-Family Viruses never leave the body even if there is a dieoff of them. Some will go latent until we get run down or sick. Then, they reactivate and make us sick.

    Sooooo, while I stay close to the bathroom, I just think how glad I am that the TF's are working.

    Love, Mikie
  2. mbofov

    mbofov Active Member

    You have my deepest sympathy that the TF is working so well! ;D

    Seriously, I am glad it's working, just sorry it has to be so rough. I think there is something in our bodies which interferes with detoxing and herxing, because I think it's all much rougher on us than "normal" people. I read recently that mercury interferes with glutathione production, and glutathione is crucial for detoxing (and I would presume herxing too), and just wonder how much of our problems stem from mercury toxicity. I am going to be trying a few things in this regard - first a homeopathic remedy from my chiro specific for mercury and then probably Andy Cutler's protocol. For anyone thinking of doing this it's crucial to have all your amalgam (1/2 silver-1/2 mercury) fillings replaced first, which I did many years ago. Unfortunately I have 3 crowns, which MIGHT have mercury underneath and there's no way of telling without removing them - costly!

    Sorry, did not mean to hijack your thread, just speculating.

    Well, I hope the worst is over soon - and glad the TF is working too!

  3. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    As a child, every time I visited my dentist, he gave me a little bead of mercury in a glass tube with a rubber stopper. It was fascinating to watch it break up when shaken and then come back together again. He told me not to take it out of the tube but, of course, all of us kids would hold it in our hands. We have a doc here who does chelation but I've not really considered it.

    I think Rich is onto something with the methylation protocol and I just got my phosphotydal serine replenished so I can get back on the protocol. I think it does help. Some have had purging after starting the protocol but the only time I purge seems to be when there is a big dieoff from ABX, AV's or TF's.

    I had all my old fillings removed but it didn't make any difference. My mouth was mercury free until I had to have a root canal through a crown. Stupid endodontist put in an amalgum filling instead of a temporary one that my dentist could removed and replace with something else. Since having all my old amalgums removed didn't seem to do anything, I've just left this small amalgum filling in place.

    I think that, for a variety of reasons, many of our systems do not work properly. Dr. St. Amand believes that the kidneys of people with FMS cannot rid themselves of the debris of making energy and that debris is deposited in our soft tissue, causing the FMS tender points. I think he is onto something but I believe there is more to the problem than he theorizes. Still, his Guai Protocol worked for me but I think it works for more reasons than just his debris theory.

    Increasing gluathione has shown to be helpful in getting our systems back on track so I do the Methylation Protocol and it helps too.

    I have not found that magic bullet which is a cure all. I'm not sure one exists. In the future, I believe patients will be genetically mapped and treatments customized just for them individually. I think that is a long way off.

    Eventually, I will try the peptide injections but not until I get myself into better shape, physically and financially. The lab which produces the injections has the ability to examine a patient's plasma and tailor make a peptide injection just for him or her. Most of the time, the "one size fits all" injections work for specific conditions. According to my doc, one type of peptide injection will work for FMS, CFIDS/ME and Sjogren's. Evidently, they have had a high success rate. It's RA which is more dicey.

    Well, I've also gotten off track here but one idea often spawns another, and so on. Thanks for your kind good wishes and I am sending up a little prayer for great success for you. Let us know how it's going.

    Love, Mikie
  4. mbofov

    mbofov Active Member

    wow - I never had a dentist who gave me mercury to play with, but I do remember playing with the mercury that came out of broken thermometers. It was quite fun, a round little ball of silver ...

    For what it's worth, I had my amalgams removed 12 years ago or so and noticed no difference at all. However, I never did any chelation for mercury which probably is in all my tissues now. A few hair tests in the past 4 years have shown high levels of mercury.

    I do tihnk Rich's protocol is a good thing - but many people have trouble with it, including me. I did it off and on for 3-1/2 years and it never got any easier, the detoxing was the pits. I finally gave up. I did do better with a B12/folate protocol by Freddd on the Phoenix Rising board, but still continue to crash.

    So what has been leading me to consider mercury are a couple of things: a woman who got better using Freddd's protocol, but still continued to crash, and then did chelation and voila! she stopped crashing. Rich told me about an 84-year-old woman who was not improving on his protocol until she did chelation for mercury and afterwards was able to take a trip to Paris with her friends and do just great. And then article on Dr. Mercola's website which talks about how mercury interferes with glutathione production.

    See, the mystery is, why do PWC have trouble with methylation and glutathione production? Poor nutrition? most of us do everything in the book to take proper supplements and eat right. Rich has theorized that some underlyign difficulties which may need to be resolved before methylation works properly are viruses, mold, lyme, toxins, including mercury.

    And mercury can cause so many problems, actually everything associated with CFS.

    So just because someone has their amalgams out does not mean they should have no more problems with mercury, because it does take up residence in the brain, hypothalamus, pituitary and other organs.

    I will post how I do. I've just tried everything else, and so am going to give this a shot too.

    Best wishes,

  5. mbofov

    mbofov Active Member

    I agree with your doctor that the mercury has already traveled throughout the body even though someone has had their fillings removed. However, I don't agree it does not do much good to have amalgam fillings removed because (a) while they are in the mouth they continue to poison you, and (b) there are protocols designed to remove mercury from the rest of the body once amalgam fillings are removed and this is what I am going to be working on.

    It's possible that the people who had marginal improvement might have even more if they do chelation such as Andrew Cutler suggests. He has written a very informative book all about chelation which I think is this quite good: Almagam Illness, Diagnosis and treatment.

    Best wishes,

  6. Chootik

    Chootik New Member

    Hi Guys.

    I haven't posted here in a long time. I was over at Lymenet but missed Prohealth and all the lovely folks here :)

    Mikie, I remember you always talking about the TFs. I love them too. I used to get a really bad reaction to the EBV one but now I can tolerate it. So I'm thinking that's a good thing. Hope you feel better soon.

    Mary, your post caught my attention as well since you said you have been doing the Methylation supplements but the detoxing and crashing was awful. How did you feel exactly? I've been wanting to do it for a few years just kept putting it off since Rich said some people got heart issues with it and I'm the queen of palpitations! he he.

    On Mercury, I most def. agree it can be a big problem for us. Basically if we're not detoxing well, all kinds of toxins can build up in our bodies, including the heavy metals. I just had a urine challenge test with DMSA and I had elevated Mercury and Lead.

    I do have 6 amalgams in my mouth. So the next thing is to remove them but I'm not sure if I'm ready to do that. I think I need to fix the detox issue first then do the mercury detox. I like the Cutler protocol.

    I also just did a urine Neurotrasmitter test and I have elevated Norephineprine and the doc said that usually means liver issues like fatty liver or Methylation Block!! So I def. have an issue with this. Will probably start the protocol soon.

  7. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    For you good wishes and lots of good info. I've only taken one TF capsule at a time every few days for about a week or so. I think, judging by the Herx-like purging, that they are really ridding my body of viruses which the AV's didn't address. I will definitely wait a while before taking another capsule. I'll pulse them like this until there's no purging and I feel better.

    I really haven't had trouble with Rich's original simplified meth. protocol. It does seem to help but when I ran out of the phos. serine, I just stopped. I need to get back on it. I'm in a Sjogren's flare which has caused painful salivary glands which, in turn, has caused me to feel achy and like I have a virus coming on (that's probably thanks to the TF). Sometimes, we have so much going on that it's hard to straighten out.

    Rainbow, I'm sure you are right about the mercury being all through the body and brain. I've never been tested for it; I probably should. As mentioned above, I'll decrease the TF's and pulse them. Yes, it's a good thing that you can tolerate the TF better.

    Mary, good luck and let us know how you do. I don't know why PWC have problems with methylation block but PWFMS have a block with the kidneys' being able to rid the body of the debris which is produced by the mitochondria when trying to produce ATP for energy. Or, at least, that is Dr. St. Amand's theory. Basically, for some reason, our systems just don't work.

    Maryam, I wish you good luck with the protocol. Interesting about the norepinephrine. My blood pressure meds decrease it in my brain and it interfers with my sleep and emotions. I've tried so many different BP meds that I just about have to stay with this one as even this side effect is the lesser of the evils with the others. I'm so glad you are back here with us.

    Sending up prayers for all of us for healing. If I missed anything here, it's because I feel lousy and am having trouble concentrating.

    Love, Mikie

  8. mbofov

    mbofov Active Member

    I didn't get heart issues with the methylation protocol. It just made me very tired and screwed up my digestion - I felt sick on it, like being poisoned. Rich would say this was detoxing. However, Freddd on the Phoenix Rising board believes that this "detoxing" is actually an induced folate deficiency caused by some of the ingredients in the methylation protocol, including folic acid. The original protocol had more folic acid than it now does. I believe that the multivitamin now is the only source of folic acid, but it also has a couple of other things Freddd believes can cause folate deficiency. (folic acid is synthetic and can compete for absorption with folate, causing folate deficiency, symptoms of which include fatigue)

    It's a little complicated - here's a link (with Freddd's permission) for what he found works: -

    I've been doing Freddd's protocol (B-12/folate) now for several months, with no detox symptoms. However, I found it was extremely important (as Freddd discusses) to supplement with 600 - 1000 mg. of potassium in divided doses daily. Overall I feel better on it, but unfortunately still crash.

    Which is what is leading me to try mercury chelation.

    I don't know if you can fix detox problems if mercury is at the root of everything, because mercury itself interferes with detoxing - it inhibits the production of glutathione, which is crucial for detoxing, so it's sort of a catch-22.

    Anyways, Rich recommends trying his protocol for 3 motnhs or so and if there's no improvement, you might try Freddd's. Again, I had no bad reactions to Freddd's protocol apart from a rather sudden increased need for potassium, which he discusses.

    If you are the queen of palpitations, have you had your potassium checked? I think low potassium can cause palpitations. Also low magnesium.

    I am planning to do Andy Cutler's protocol, but first I have to get 3 crowns taken care of (sob! expensive!) There may be mercury under the crowns and x-rays won't reveal this.

    As sort of an experiment I'm goign to get a homeopathic remedy from my chiro for mercury, before I do the crown work, just to see what happens. But there is no way I will attempt Cutler's protocol without having the crowns replaced, because if there is mercury underneath, I could get pretty sick. His book is very good, I've learned a lot from it.

    Good luck!

  9. mbofov

    mbofov Active Member

    I had a lot of fillings too - I can't remember how many, I'd say 8 or 10, and they'd been there a long time. I agree, you need a qualified dentist to do the removal.

    From what I read you should NOT attempt chelation as long as those fillings are in your mouth. You could get very sick as it could cause a lot of mercury to redistribute from the amalgams throughout your body. That's why you need to get the fillings removed first. Andrew Cutler has written a book all about this which I found very good.

    What did allergy elimination do for you?

    It would be nice to know exactly what's going on, to know what do do -- I think if we were at least taken seriously by the medical profession we might start to get some answers (thank goodness for people like Rich!)

  10. Chootik

    Chootik New Member

    Mikie, Thanks for the good wishes :) I see you're a moderator now, congrads!

    Mary, I have checked Potassium and Mag. levels in blood and they are always fine. The lab that just did the Urine and Saliva test wants to do a 24 hour Electrolyte Test so that will also check and see. He thinks I'm loosing too many of the electrolytes in the body but why are the levels ok in the blood? Complicated so we'll see what comes out.

    Thanks for the reference to Rick and Freedy's info. I read a few of the treads and it seems people have different reactions to Methylation. I'm just too afraid to try anything now, it seems almost everything is giving me a reaction these days! It really sucks. I probably will do the mercury removal first. I only have 6 of the amalgams. I def. like Cutler's protocol, slow and steady, it should work.

    Keep me posted how you do with the Methylation and if you remove the crowns and do the mercury removal. It's always great to exchange notes with someone going through the same thing.

  11. kch64

    kch64 New Member

    Hi Mikie,

    How long does it usually take you to get through the herx reaction on the TF? I've thought about trying TF's, but have not done so yet.

    Also, I saw the Phos. Serine post. I tried that because of elevated cortisol, but it made me
    feel itchy, so I quit. Does it cause herx reaxtions also?

    additionally, I got tested under Dr. Dantini for the viruses and I tested positive for epstein barr and cytomegalovirus, so maybe I should try TF.

    thanks for the education.
    [This Message was Edited on 09/26/2011]
  12. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    The Herx-like purging can be harsh from the TF's as can the initial immune reaction. When the TF's enter the system, they "wake up" the immune system which may have been asleep at the controls. That can feel like it does when one is getting a virus--feeling hot, achey and tired. Once the immune goes on a killing spree, it can result in more dead pathogens than the body can excrete normally. Purging, sweating, nausea, and diarrhea, are the body's way to rid itself of the dead pathogens before they turn toxic and cause a toxic-shock-like condition.

    I think it's a good idea in the beginning to just sprinkle a bit of the TF's under the tongue to see what happens. One capsule may be too much in starting out. It seems to me that these new TF's are stronger than the ones I took several years ago. They also taste worse under the tongue. If once holds the powder from the capsule under the tongue for about a minute, the rest can be washed down with water. It's really a trial and error.

    As hard as all this sounds, I still believe the TF's are far more effective than AV's for some viruses.

    I continue to purge but I've returned to the methylation protocol and it can cause purging as the body rids itself of toxins which it couldn't when the methylation cycle wasn't working. I am starting to feel better every day now and my sleep is much improved. The purging is less and less harsh.

    I would never recommend that anyone do two protocols at once unless, like me, that person has been on the protocols in the past and knows what to expect.

    Hope this helps.

    Love, Mikie
  13. kch64

    kch64 New Member

    Thanks for the information. If/when I try TF's, I'll do it the way you said, by putting it under the tongue first.

    Appreciate the advice.
  14. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    Good luck to you.

    I can see that, even though my fog is better, I should really proof my posts. When I'm tired, I have dyslexia, I just drop words or letters, and, sometimes, I substitute one word for another.

    Love, Mikie

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