vaccines / i need help making a disscion

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by allhart, Nov 24, 2002.

  1. allhart

    allhart New Member

    i posted this reply on bublegums post about lauras story but sense i need help im posting it here so you guy can help me ,


    allhart
    (517)


    [ edit | delete ] vacines 11/24/02 11:17 AM

    this is something at this very moment im strugling with my sweet little autumn is 7 monthes i havent took her in for her 6 month shots yet because after her last shots shes had constant colds and she just didnt act the same the 2 weeks right after the shots
    what worse is when my now 13 year old jordan had his shots at 6 monthes the next day he stopped breathing he was just lying on the floor playing and next thing i knew he was not moving and his lips were blue ! i shock him and got no response i gave him a few breath and he started crying the best cry i ever heard ,i went to the hosptial and they checked him over and said he was fine just keep a eye on him if he did it agin or got a very high fever or seiszers bring him back
    my ped didnt say anything much either so of course i found a new one
    my son has a list of helth promblems but the one that i think has to do with shots is a portion of the brian is smaler then its suppose to be in some children this same spot of the brain being small shows autssium we just got lucky,my son has trumors in his hand loss of balance and other things from this ,
    my son had a runny nose few weeks after the shots just like autumn did after her last shots
    also my best friend works with dd children and most became sick after the shots she will never let her childern have them
    even though my other childern didnt have that bad of a reaction they ran high fevers and had swollen legs
    so please all of you i do need advice do you think i should get autumn her shots?
    this is realy tearing me up because ive heard that you can be reported for neglect if you dont get them

    thanks kara

  2. allhart

    allhart New Member

    i posted this reply on bublegums post about lauras story but sense i need help im posting it here so you guy can help me ,


    allhart
    (517)


    [ edit | delete ] vacines 11/24/02 11:17 AM

    this is something at this very moment im strugling with my sweet little autumn is 7 monthes i havent took her in for her 6 month shots yet because after her last shots shes had constant colds and she just didnt act the same the 2 weeks right after the shots
    what worse is when my now 13 year old jordan had his shots at 6 monthes the next day he stopped breathing he was just lying on the floor playing and next thing i knew he was not moving and his lips were blue ! i shock him and got no response i gave him a few breath and he started crying the best cry i ever heard ,i went to the hosptial and they checked him over and said he was fine just keep a eye on him if he did it agin or got a very high fever or seiszers bring him back
    my ped didnt say anything much either so of course i found a new one
    my son has a list of helth promblems but the one that i think has to do with shots is a portion of the brian is smaler then its suppose to be in some children this same spot of the brain being small shows autssium we just got lucky,my son has trumors in his hand loss of balance and other things from this ,
    my son had a runny nose few weeks after the shots just like autumn did after her last shots
    also my best friend works with dd children and most became sick after the shots she will never let her childern have them
    even though my other childern didnt have that bad of a reaction they ran high fevers and had swollen legs
    so please all of you i do need advice do you think i should get autumn her shots?
    this is realy tearing me up because ive heard that you can be reported for neglect if you dont get them

    thanks kara

  3. sofy

    sofy New Member

    Vaccines came to be because so many died without them. We now live in a world where we do not have large epidemics that take the lives of many in our close communities. There is probably a much bigger risk of death to your child taking him for a ride in a car but we do it because it is easier than walking miles and miles. To be sure a small percentage will suffer awful side effects or death from the vaccine but is that larger than the consequences of the same outcome if they get one of the dideases because they did not get the shots. I have not read any of the statistics but I know we dont hear of lots of children dying from those childhood diseases anymore. Weigh the odds and the risk you feel you can live with.
  4. allhart

    allhart New Member

    whould you give him the shots agin if you had the choice?
  5. JaciBart

    JaciBart Member

    I wonder if add/adhd is caused by them also. I think it is obvious autism is, Calif is having an epidemic, the fed govt is investigating. Cody has not had a problem with them but if I knew then what I know now I would not, I think you can cite religious issues, I have not looked into it, I will though.

    Jaci
  6. kay

    kay New Member

    my kids are grown and gone, but if I had it to do over again I wouldn't. My sister will NOT vacinate her daughter. I have this sight you can go into for info on how to get around it. Email addy under bio. Feel free to write me for it!! Linda
  7. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    Don't children have to have shots before entering school? Or, can you cite religious reasons for not vaccinations? Is it safer once the kids are older to get the vaccinations?

    Geez, if I had kids today, knowing what we know now, I'm not sure I would get them vaccinated, especially if one of them had the reactions y'all have cited above. It's a tough call. Bless you.

    Love, Mikie
  8. kay

    kay New Member

    Yes religion is one, but the sight on Laura, there is a tape that you ca get, which tells about ways, that you can go around it,for kids going to school.
  9. karen2002

    karen2002 New Member

    My Nephew---who has had chronic illnesses since he was born--went through the public schools with no vaccines. After his first DPT----it was determined he should never be vaccinated again. One can find a Doctor if need be to write a letter to be kept in the child's permanent school file. Our school system choose to accept my sister's refusal on this, without further documentation, as she is an RN.
    Siblings often react simularly. Allergic tendencies are inherited, as well as immune disorders. I would say no!
    Karen

    Also--you can not be charged with neglect as stated, when you are "protecting" you child's health from potential harm.
    [This Message was Edited on 11/24/2002]
  10. Stormy214

    Stormy214 New Member

    This is a very delicate, personal decision we all must face with our children. I for one have had all 3 of my children vaccinated (required in Michigan for school, religious reasons or no), and the only problem encountered was with my youngest (seizures) which we cann not DEFINITELY relate to the vaccines; that is only one possibility. Of all the people I know with children, I only know of one case in which the child suffered severe repercussions, but those were such that he was literally in a vegetative state from 18 months to 14 y ears, when he finally died. I stress: he was the only one, and I know many people with children who have been vaccinated. However, to his parents, I doubt that is any great comfort. That is why I feel it is a very personal decision. The odds are small that something could go wrong, but there is that chance, and we all have to decide on our own just what we are willing to risk where our children are concerned. I pray you find your way through this; I, too, went through the agonizing decision and hope it works out well for you and yours.
    Best wishes,
    Stormy
  11. amymb74

    amymb74 New Member

    I would wait until she is at least 2 years old. Adverse reactions to vaccinations are likely to get worse w/ each dose so if she had a bad reaction to the first set maybe you should look into not getting them. The immunization chart is merely a reference. My neighbors daughter is just starting her shots at the age of 4 because her mother had seizures at 6 months old. My 4 year old just had his DPT, MMR, & Polio all together - His leg swelled up so large that he couldn't fit into his jeans, it was hot, colored red & purple, and very painful - went to the ER & got another shot for pain & a shot of benedryl - The er doc had no idea which was causing it because he didn't know which shot was where. Leg was getting better by the next day but he started breaking out in red blochy rashes all over his body - Then the next night he was having such bad headaches that he was vomiting all night, he was also very spacey for a few days - like he didn't hear or see anyone then would just snap out of it. I know mothers deal with a lot worse concerning immunizations but that was scary enough for me. If I had to do it all over I would at least insist the shots were split up so I knew what was causing each symptom. Its a hard decision. Just remember - you are her mother and responsible for making the decision - nobody else. Dr. Horowitz (do a web search) has spent a lot of time in this area. Best of luck whatever you decide....sorry if I rambled a bit too much....Amy
    I just re-read part of your post - if I had a child that stopped breathing from a shot - there is no way I'd give any of my children more. There are so many who choose not to have shots, going alternative routes, maybe you should look into that. I feel for you as this is a such a hard choice to make.
  12. sofy

    sofy New Member

    My 36 yr old daughter had all the shots and then some because we lived overseas for a while. I remember going over and over again to get the shots individually just because it made common sense to me not to have so much at once. Caution is always good whatever you are talking about. When I grew up I knew numerous people who got polio. One family near me lost 3 of their 5 kids. My mothers best friend handsom teenage young son didn't die but was severely disabled. As a kid I was grateful to get the polio vac. when it came out because I was terrified.
    I take my little dog to the vet several times to get individual shots even tho it costs more time and money.
  13. bubblegum

    bubblegum New Member

    Read my reply to you under Laura's story.
    Sandy
  14. dojomo

    dojomo New Member

    ....I found this, A School Nurse Perspective

    """"""""""""""""""""

    Hepatitis B Vaccine Hearings: A School Nurse Perspective To the Subcommittee on Criminal Justice, Drug Policy, and Human Resources of the Committee on Government Reform, U.S. House of Representatives
    May 17, 1999


    Mr. Chairman and Members of the Subcommittee: This is a school nursing perspective for the congressional hearings to be held on May 18, 1999 regarding the safety of the hepatitis B vaccine that is being mandated for newborns and now older children in America. 

    We ask you to please consider the following information and submit it into the congressional testimony.  As nurses we continually see more and more damaged children entering our schools, and we are very concerned that a major portion of that damage may be due to the hepatitis B vaccine's assault on the newborn neurological and immune system. 


    My name is Patti White, R.N.  I am a registered professional nurse and the district health services coordinator for a multi-school district.  I am writing on behalf of the school nurses in our district.  We have very grave concerns about the hepatitis B vaccine. For the past three or four years our school districts have noted a significant increase in the number of children entering school with developmental disorders, learning disabilities, attention deficit disorders and/or serious chronic illness such as diabetes, asthma and seizure disorders.  Each of the past four years has been worse than the year before.  There is only one common thread we have been able to identify in these children: they are the children who received the first trial hepatitis B injections as newborns in the early 1990s.  As the hepatitis B compliance rate in newborns has gone up in our community, so has the percentage of damaged children. 

    This is very alarming.  Because of having so many damaged children we have tried to find the long term clinical trials that ruled this vaccine "safe and effective".  We discovered through an exhaustive Medline search that the FDA based its decision to approve hepatitis B vaccine for administration in the first hours of a newborn baby's life upon clinical trials and upon post-marketing surveillance studies in which patients and their doctors were asked to report any adverse effects they noticed within 4-5 days after each injection [4 days for SmithKline and 5 days for Merck]. 


    The problems being reported in increasing numbers as occurring after hepatitis B vaccination appear to be autoimmune and neurological in origin.  Such problems take weeks to months to produce noticeable symptoms, and cannot be spotted in a 4-5 day observation period.  These are the only clinical studies that have been done by Merck or SmithKline.  There is not one long-term study that we could find. 


    The CDC and FDA have no idea what the long term effects will be on the newly developing neurological and immune systems of the infants who are injected with this vaccine.  They seem to only be concerned with denying the connection between these damaged children and the hepatitis B shot they received within a few hours of birth.  The CDC even admits the lack of study and states they do not even know how long the vaccine will be effective.  We found this amazing since the vaccine was developed for a population at risk for hepatitis B: IV drug users, high risk medical professionals and those who are involved in high risk sexual practices. 


    In 1950 (before mass immunizations began), the USA had the third lowest infant mortality rate in the world.  By 1986, the USA dropped to 17th place.  In 1995 the USA dropped to 23rd and now the USA has dropped to the appalling position of 24th in the health of its children.  But the USA is now first in vaccine compliance through government mandates.  (Update: The latest report reveals that the United States has dropped to 31st in the world in the health of its children).  See the Unicef report.


    The elementary grades are overwhelmed with children who have symptoms of neurological and/or immune system damage: epilepsy, seizure disorders, various kinds of palsies, autism, mental retardation, learning disabilities, juvenile-onset diabetes, asthma, vision /hearing loss, and a multitude of new conduct/behavior disorders. 


    We have come to believe the hepatitis B vaccine is an assault on a newborns developing neurological and immune system.  Vaccines are supposed to be making us healthier, however, in twenty-five years of nursing I have never seen so many damaged, sick kids.  Something very, very wrong is happening to our children.  The census of ill children treated in our health rooms each day has increased by 300% in only four years. 

    In our last central district school nurse meeting we discussed whether the combination of so many viruses all at one time (hepatitis B vaccine commonly given at the same time of the DTaP, IPV, HiB, PCV, Var and MMR) is causing the infants immune system to be overwhelmed and unable to mount a sufficient defense response.  We are advocating clinical studies to determine: Is the combination of all these viruses at one time an assault on an infant's immune and neurological system that increases the chances for adverse reaction AND what are the long-term neurological and immune system responses to these vaccines. 


    We are all continuing to research this issue and will be happy to share the many resources we have found with you.  I hope you will do the same as you open up this issue. 

    We have talked many times about the possible cause(s) of the continuing increase in pervasive developmental disorders (PDD), such as autism.  From the literature we have found, we should expect a rate for PDD of about 2-5 in 10,000.  In our community the rate in 1st and 2nd grade is about 1 in 150 and in kindergarten, 1 in 100. 

    As school nurses, we have had many parents calling and asking how they can exempt their children from the hepatitis B vaccination (HBV).  Many of them have spent long hours in study and research perplexed over this issue.  For the past six months we have been studying documents, books and research articles published by internationally respected doctors and scientists that cause us grave concern. 

    You must understand that we began this study to reassure our parents and show them the truth about how safe vaccines are.  Unfortunately, our sincere, honest, dedicated study has caused a complete reversal of our once strongly held beliefs.  Instead of being able to reassure the parents, we have found ourselves being drawn deeper and deeper into this unbelievable controversy over vaccines that is raging among physicians, scientists, researchers, parents, and the government.  We pray you will have the courage to shine the light on this controversy through these hepatitis B hearings. 


    My daughter's own experience with the hepatitis B vaccine made me much more open-minded to the information we have been receiving from parents, teachers and other nurses in our community.  I personally have had to research this on my own to determine if I have been enforcing a policy that is actually harming more children than it will ever help.  I have spent countless hours reading books, vaccine-hearing testimony, research papers, medical journal articles and Internet web-sites from around the world.  I did not come to my decision easily or lightly, I assure you. 

    Twenty-five years of total belief in something does not shake that easily. 

    I have repeated the well-rehearsed refrain "Be Wise; Immunize" thousands of times during those years and reassured countless parents that they were doing the right thing by vaccinating their precious children . . . even the ones who came to me with serious doubts and reservations.  I will now have to live with that. 

    We are all now faced with a moral dilemma: will we protect the "sacred cow of conventional vaccine philosophy" or will we stand up and speak out for the "health and well being of innocent children"?  We choose children.  We wonder, which will our government choose?  Because the hepatitis B vaccine was developed for those at risk of disease, including IV drug users and sexually promiscuous individuals, efforts to require administration of the vaccine to most, if not all of the U.S. population is very controversial. 

    The increasing number of adverse reaction reports connected with this vaccine exacerbates the controversy.  The controversy stems to a great extent from our lack of understanding of the mechanisms of the immune response to the hepatitis B surface antigen and lack of long term follow-up of individuals who have received the vaccine.  In a January 27, 1999 press release, the National Vaccine Information Center (NVIC) released figures which show that the number of hepatitis B vaccine-associated serious adverse event and death reports in American children under the age of 14 outnumber the reported cases of hepatitis B disease. 

    During our research we discovered a copy of the grant proposal submitted recently to the National Institute of Health by Dr. B. S. Dunbar, who has worked in autoimmunity and vaccine development for over twenty years and was honored two years ago by the National Institute of Health.  Dr. Dunbar is working with a team of veteran vaccine researchers from all over the world. 

    Their grant is requested for the purpose of studying the hypothesis that: hepatitis B recombinant vaccine does cause adverse autoimmune reactions in genetically susceptible individuals.  This study will also provide new insights into the predictability of determining adverse side effects of the hepatitis B vaccine in individuals at risk as related to their histocompatability subtypes. 

    Their study of auto-immune diseases/symptoms caused by the hepatitis B vaccine include: lupus erythematosus, rheumatoid arthritis, vascular disorders, Guillain Barre syndrome, demyelinating disorders such as optic neuritis (blindness), Bell's palsy, demyelinating neuropathy (multiple developmental disorders), multiple sclerosis, diabetes mellitus and chronic fatigue syndrome to mention the most common. 

    This group of internationally respected vaccine researchers headed up by Dr. Dunbar also point out that, "The studies (for the approval of HPB) were not designed to assess serious, rare adverse events; the total number of recipients were too small; and the follow-up was too short to detect rare or delayed, serious, adverse reactions." Finally they point out that "overall the number of examples of adverse neurologic outcomes following receipt of hepatitis B vaccine are of concern, particularly those resulting in demyelinating neurologic disease."
    They continue, "In view of these observations. . . it is medically crucial to evaluate the nature of the autoimmune reactions (i.e. risks) associated with the hepatitis B vaccine and to determine if individuals who will have these adverse reactions can be identified in advance of receiving the vaccine". 

    There are critical questions that must be addressed to establish the risk/benefit of the current hepatitis B vaccines in the United States.  These questions are particularly important in view of recent mandates to vaccinate all children including newborn infants."

    You may read the text of Dr. Dunbar's grant proposal here. Many groups have called for a moratorium on hepatitis B vaccination until some of these questions can be answered adequately.  The NVIC reported "Newborn babies are dying shortly after their shots and their deaths are being written off as sudden infant death syndrome. 

    Parents should have the right to give their informed consent to vaccination and Congress should give emergency, priority funding to independent scientists, who can take an unbiased look at this vaccine, instead of leaving the search for truth in the hands of government officials who have already decided to force every child to get the vaccine".  We agree completely.  The NVIC can be contacted for further information. 


    In Dr. Coulter's book, "Vaccination, Social Violence, and Criminality" the thesis is developed that the "sociopathic personality" which has emerged on a mass scale in recent decades, and which is responsible for a disproportionate amount of crime and violence, is causally linked to the childhood vaccination program. 

    Vaccination frequently causes encephalitis and neuropathy that in turn leads to these post-encephalitic states and conditions.  In his book, Dr. Coulter presents a time line of increase in developmental disability related to vaccine introduction that is indeed frightening.  Dr. Coulter believes about 20% of our children are suffering from this neurological vaccine damage. 

    Our own school district's confidential health statistics show at least 20% of our children (K-3) have significant neurological damage and/or chronic illness.  The last three years have shown acceleration in the numbers of children who are entering our schools with these "developmental disorders".  (Could these be the same infants who received the first trial doses of hepatitis B as only a few hour-old newborns?) As school nurses, working with these damaged children on a daily basis, we pray this is not true. 

    If it is, the ramification to this generation of children is unthinkable! Should we not pause, call for a moratorium on these poorly tested, rapidly approved vaccines, and allow independent American physicians and researchers to study them before blindly injecting an experimental vaccine into an entire generation?  (We have found the only ones declaring the vaccine's safety are the ones who are making millions of dollars from its sales, whose employment depends on it or the ones being supported by the drug companies' vast number of grants and fundings. 

    The independent researchers seem to be coming up with an entirely different report.)

    Vaccine producers have nothing to lose since our U.S. Congress has made them immune from responsibility or liability for injuries caused from their vaccines.  The push is on for them to create more and more vaccines.  There are huge amounts of money being made by these people who no longer worry about the consequences of their inadequate clinical trials. 

    The United States government has had to pay out over a billion dollars in damages to families who can prove their children have been damaged or killed by vaccines, and there are thousands more cases pending. 

    We believe, as medical professionals, that we are doing a great disservice to our country by forcing government mandated vaccines on all children.  Please research this and we pray you have the courage to speak out and tell the nation what you find. 

    (These are the personal beliefs of the school nurses and do not necessarily reflect those of the school district.)

    Sincerely,
    Patti White, RN


    ©   Copyright 1999-2002.  The Chronic Syndrome Support Association, Inc.
    All Rights Reserved.  Health Information Disclaimer Most recent revision August 23, 2002
     
  15. allhart

    allhart New Member

    thank you all so much for your responses i realy needed others option

    i just looked at her shot records the shots they get are
    dpt poloio,hip b and hepitisis b
    its actually 3 shots 2 in 1 leg and 1 in the other

    i did refuse to give my son his hepitisis b shot when he was going into 7th grade i signed a weiver because my sons blood test indacate he may already have some liver promblems i didnt want to add to damage

    i think i have decided to wait until shes older to finish the shots if im having this hard of a time making this dission i better wait ,until i feel more sure,i stll dont know all the medical promblems with my son

    anyways we have no idea if our vac may have been part of the reason for these dd

    i do belive the goverment and drug companys hide the risks for the grater good,

    thank you dojomo for the artical,
  16. BethM

    BethM New Member

    I am an RN, a pediatric and school nurse in California, where we have the children with the most required inoculations in the country. I have mixed feelings about this, as a school nurse and as a mother, and as one with FMS and leanings toward a wholistic lifestyle. I was terrified when I took my first child for his first shots as an infant. The pediatric staff convinced me it was safe, he got his shots, and indeed, he was fine. Neither of my boys has had any adverse reactions to immunizations, thank God.

    I do believe that immunizations should be started later in life than the first few days. My sons, now ages 19 and 20 years, were born before the start of that practice. There are valid and pressing reasons for immunizations, as they have stopped the presence and spread of many killer diseases such as pertussis (whooping cough, which is now seen more frequently and is killing children because more people are not immunizing their kids against it), diptheria and polio. It only takes a certain percentage of un-immunized children to create an environment in which enough of the disease is present and unchecked to cause an epidemic. I don't know the exact population pressure numbers, but it does happen. In England a few years ago, parents stopped immunizing their children for pertussis, and there was an outbreak of whooping cough in which children became sick and died.

    Immunizing children is both a personal and public health decsision, which needs to made in as informed a manner as possible. If there have been serious reactions to immunizations in the family, I would approach the shots cautiously, perhaps using single instead of combination doses, and waiting until the child is older, opting to not immunize at all, as long as the parent understands the possible outcomes of not immunizing. In California, a parent may sign a waiver for personal beliefs or religious or medical exemption, but the child will be excluded from school if there is an outbreak of a communicable disease like measles, until the Dept. of Public Health says the child may return to school. This could take weeks or longer. I've seen it happen, when we had the measles outbreaks a few years ago.

    In the end, it is the parent's decision, but you need to understand the laws in your state, and your rights, and the possible results of immunizing or not immunizing your child. I understand your fears, believe me!

    Peace,
    Beth.