Viral and AntiViral Theory

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by Slayadragon, Nov 18, 2006.

  1. Slayadragon

    Slayadragon New Member

    How much have people on this board heard or read about the theory of using anti-virals for CFS? Or what are your own hypotheses?

    It seems to me that a common strategy is to identify the particular problem viruses (e.g. Epstein-Barr), use an anti-viral to rid the body of this, and then cease using it (perhaps pulsing when the infection comes back).

    Another theory is that many CFS patients have such weak immune systems that their bodies are susceptible to any and all viruses that come along. This suggests that once the body is rid of one sort of virus, others will come along to take its place.

    To my understanding, there are huge numbers of constantly mutating viruses in the world, a very high proportion of which have not been identified. (Considering that it took researchers more than two years working intensely and competitively to find the AIDS virus, that seems reasonable to me.)

    This second theory seems to me supported by the fact that things like EBV, CMV and HHV-6 are commonly found present in non-CFS patients, and that these infections wax and wane in CFS patients. (I myself have been identified as having these infections at some times and not having them at others, but in general my health status remained unchanged regardless.)

    If the second theory is the case, then it seems that a one-swoop attack (using an anti-viral to eradicate one particular virus) is going to be far from optimally helpful. If I eradicate all the Epstein-Barr in my body, it seems to me clear (based on the poor state measured by lab tests of my immune system) that others will quickly move in to take its place.

    It makes perfect sense to me why specific anti-virals stop working after a while. If a drug targets EBV and a few other viruses and those are knocked out, the drug has nothing left to do. On the other hand, if other viruses not affected by that particular antiviral move in, the patient isn't going to feel much better in the long run.

    If different drugs kill different sorts of viruses, it seems to be plausible that taking them in rotation (e.g. Valtrex for six months,, then Valcyte for nine months, then Famvir for six months, whatever) might be a reasonable strategy.

    This is similar to what I do with anti-yeast drugs. I take oregano oil for a while, then pau d'arco for a while, then citrus seed extract, then goldenseal, etc.

    Considering that viruses are probably much more heterogeneous than yeast (which are merely different strands of candida rather than entirely different ones), this sort of strategy seems like it might be even more appropriate for viruses.

    Of course, this would suggest that CFS patients would be on antivirals of some sort at all times, and might need to experience die-off symptoms when they rotated from one drug to another.

    If it worked, though, it seems to me to have far more potential than pulsing on and off one particular drug (which, if this theory is indeed true, will give only a partial recovery at best).

    This is all new territory though, and so I'm certain that no one (including the best doctors in the field) have an answer.

    Still, since people here have put a lot of thought into this topic, what do you think?

    Or have you had any conversations with knowledgeable doctors about it?

  2. cherylsue

    cherylsue Member

    We just don't have one virus, We probably have several, and some that aren't even identified. It's not so much the bugs, but the terrain they live in.

    Nutritional therapy is important. Alkaline diet, low yeast, no sweets, chocolate, or nuts (herpes viruses love these.) Low arginine diet, higher lysine levels. Raise your potassium levels (low in CFS)with low salt V8 juice and bananas. These are just a few places to start.

    De. Papernik mentioned the hit and run theory. Viruses do the damage and leave OR it could be the HHV6 virus hanging out in your brain.

    Then, there was an article in the ProHealth library about people with brain injuries (concussions) etc. being more susceptible. Heal the brain injury, and then the immune system rights itself. Neurontin was mentioned as the drug of choice for brain injury.

    OR, viruses like EBV, CMV, etc. live in the lining of our muscles, cells, etc. and fbrin coats them. Taking enzymes exposes them for killing. However, I don't think we ever eradicate these viruses. They live in our spinal column and spleen.

    Antivirals will lose their effectiveness over time. Wishingonastar was put on Cumanda by her CFS physician when she became resistant She's still in remission with just a fleeting symptom occasionally.

    The terrain is the key????

  3. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    You are right about using AV's. That is why most treatment regimens will either rotate them or pulse them. In the case of the Herpes Viruses, EBV, CMV, and HHV-6, AV's will not wipe them out completely. These viruses can lie latent in the body only to reactivate later down the road. In the case of HHV-6, AV's are barely effective.

    I took Famvir, pulsing it after an initial period, to get the viral load down. Then, I switched to the TF's which seem to do a much better job, especially with HHV-6. They train the immune system to recognize the targeted pathogens and to kill them. They are like tiny, safe oral vaccines. Immunity isn't permanent and the TF's must be pulsed. I take them for a couple of days every six weeks.

    Lyme and mycoplasmas can deposit cysts deep in the body's tissue and these can reactivate, even when one gets the infection under control. In this sense, they are similar to viruses which can go latent. I keep Acyclovir and Doxycycline on hand because these pathogens will rear their ugly heads. I had reactivations of both a virus or viruses and the mycoplasma following my surgery. They are now under control after taking the AV and ABX.

    Many of us do not get the common cold and flu viruses because the side of our immune system which fights them is overactive. The side which is underactive allows these chronic infections to plague us for years as they thrive below the immune system's radar. I just posted Dr. Cheney's article which explains the T1 and T2 immune system theory in another thread.

    Love, Mikie
    [This Message was Edited on 11/19/2006]

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