Viruses and Research

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by Bruin63, Sep 14, 2005.

  1. Bruin63

    Bruin63 Member

    I came across this article and thought, it very interesting.
    If FMS or CFS is being caused by a Virus, as some Believe it to be, then there is some hope that this research could be a step in the right direction, if they can id the cause, virus, then hopefully a cure will be close at hand.

    This is just one theory, I like to research the ones that makes the most sense.
    This is from a great website, I posted the URL back in 01, in fact it was one to Mikie, lol, I printed it out, the [post].


    Newly discovered virus causes respiratory tract infections in children

    Scientists at Karolinska Institutet have discovered a previously unknown virus that has been found to affect children. The virus, called human bocavirus, was identified by the team using a new method for virus discovery on respiratory tract samples drawn from children at Karolinska University Hospital in Stockholm. Their findings are published in the latest issue of PNAS (the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the USA).

    Respiratory problems caused by infection of the lower respiratory tract are a leading cause of hospitalisation of children. In about 20 per cent of cases, it is currently impossible to determine the causative agent. The Swedish team detected the bocavirus in 3 percent of cases of serious lower respiratory tract infection.

    “Viral infections are one of the world’s most serious health problems,” says virus researcher Tobias Allander. “They can cause everything from AIDS to the common cold, and they kill thousands of people a day. Despite this, we do not have a full picture of all the viruses that infect humans.”

    Dr. Allander and colleague Björn Andersson have now developed a method that makes it possible to systematically scan samples for unknown viruses.

    “We believe that the most important aspect of our discovery is that it will enable the discovery of many more viruses, and this may help us solve important medical questions,” says Dr. Allander. “Identifying unknown viruses will probably help in developing diagnostics and treatment for diseases that are currently of unknown origin.” Many scientists believe that as yet unknown viruses can be involved in the development of for example childhood diabetes and multiple sclerosis (MS).

    Dr. Allander is a scientist at KI’s Centre for Molecular Medicine and Department of Clinical Microbiology at Karolinska University Hospital. Dr. Andersson is an associate professor at KI’s Centre for Genomics and Bioinformatics.
    for more information on Virus and how it relates to our co-exisitng conditions, that some of us have.

    [This Message was Edited on 09/15/2005]
  2. moonlightkitty

    moonlightkitty New Member

    Thanks Sharon, that is very interesting. That seems like an amazing discovery they've made, to be able to scan for unknown viruses. Imagine if we had a virus that was just not identified yet!

    I just remember when I first got sick with this, most doctors/online info would conclusively say it's not viral - because nothing shows up in tests or everyone has the viruses so it's not a unique situation to us. This type of research shows how little we know and how foolish it was/is to rule this out when the tests we have are so inadequate.

    All the latest research keeps mentioning viral connections and it finally feels like things are heading in the right direction.


    PS Are we allowed to put links in now? I've still been doing the google instructions.
  3. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    Geez, I don't remember but then, I don't remember things from last week :) That's the silver lining of cognitive problems; you can read things over and over and enjoy them just like the first time. Tada! But seriously, folks...

    I think there are many viral and bacterial infections which can trigger our illnesses but even when we are able to rid the body of the pathogen, we do not seem to get well. In fact, we can get sick with several infections and recover only to succumb to another down the road. Eventually, though, we are no longer able to recover.

    Seems to me that regardless of the pathogen involved, something changes at a very basic level and never returns to normal. This agrees with the latest genetic study in Scotland which found several upregulated genes in PWC.

    Stress, childbirth, menopause, injury and other traumas seem to be able to trigger our illnesses as well. Seems that CFIDS is usually triggered by an infection but FMS may be triggered by physical stresses and mental/emotional stresses. Still, one cannot really divide these two conditions nor their triggers. There's just too much overlap.

    I have both FMS and CFIDS, as you know. My CIFDS was triggered full blown by a mycoplasmas infection nearly 15 years ago. It left me in horrible pain and crippled for months afterward. The ABX given to me were not adequate and the infection went chronic and stealth in my body. I did recover but was never the same after that.

    About five or six years ago, I was in a minor auto accident which injured my shoulders and hips. That was when the symptoms of FMS came on full blown.

    Someone here mentioned reading a book about the sensitive person. Just the subject describes me my whole life. I can look back into early childhood and see little hints of things to come. I always was a jockette and considered myself extremely healthy, but in retrospect, I wasn't.

    I continue to believe that something in our genetic makeup predisposes us to these illnesses and when conditions are just right (or wrong) we will become ill. We may recover but eventually, something else will bring on our illnesses full blown. It seems that we have a lower threshold for recovery from illness, stress, trauma, hormonal changes, and physical trauma.

    The Scottish researchers found several upregulated genes. I believe that not everyone has all the defective genes. Some may have only one or two which have gone haywire. This would explain why some are sicker than others, why some recover and some become bedridden, and why some treatments work on some but not others. Genetic predisposition also would explain why our illnesses may run in families.

    I am better than I was five years ago. When I came to this wonderful board, I was on Morphine and in bed most of the time. Despite all the treatments to rid my body of the mycoplasma and stealth viruses, I am not well. I have times when I can get a lot done, but I also have relapses. I am a lot better than I was then. I think we can get rid of the pathogens and we can recover--to a point.

    Some young 'ens who get sick once seem to be able to fully recover, but I'll bet if they get sick again down the road or are injured, exposed to toxins, or have too much stress, they will relapse. Seems that once those genes become fully upregulated, they don't shut down even when the threat is removed.

    The researchers claimed that medications already on the market for other illnesses would be effective in treating the upregulated genes. It would just be a matter of gaining approval for using them for our illnesses. Until then, they could be written for off-label use.

    Unfortunately, the study ran out of funds. I hope someone picks up where this left off as it's the most promising research to date.

    My respect for viruses has skyrocketed since I began researching them. They are the smallest of pathogens and can adapt themselves in order to assure survival. I believe they are capable of manipulating their environment as well. Not only can they invade the body's cells but they are capable of invading bacteria. Viral mutations seem to be endless. Even fragments of viruses can infect the heart and cause heart failure.

    Thanks again for this info. Sorry this is so long, but there may be new members who haven't heard my rantings yet :)

    Love, Mikie
  4. moonlightkitty

    moonlightkitty New Member

    And I agree with all of that. I do think it's the genetic reaction more than the actual virus. But I was thinking, when reading this, imagine the possibility that, at least in some cases, there's a whole other class of viruses that aren't understood and are chronic. Something like HIV that's not discovered. I'm not saying it is that, but just reflecting on the idea that there's so little we know.

    The study first got enough small donations to continue for a month, and then a large grant from MERGE to continue... maybe for a year? I've forgotten the exact details (and can't find a reference right now), but I think it was for long enough for Dr Gow to actually do what he needs to do, maybe a full year. I did read talk of it being an 'interim' grant, and that there's hope that once he proves something, he'll get govt. funding. The Govt, of course would rather spend the ME/CFS money on programs to help patients 'cope' socially and psychologically. *rolls eyes*

    I don't mean this badly, but I am surprised on here sometimes how the information is quite behind. This is pretty old news about getting the grant. I would recommend joining the yahoo discussion groups (if I'm allowed to write that here).
  5. moonlightkitty

    moonlightkitty New Member

    Two more things - I don't believe we have effective treatments yet for a lot of viruses. Realistically lot of the treatments are experimental and don't have real proof they work. The theories seem sound, but it's research like the OP posted that shows we don't even begin to understand the complexities of viruses. I'm not saying they don't work for some people, just that I don't believe they're effective enough to conclude that if they don't work, we can say getting rid of viruses doesn't work because I doubt they do (and if we have unidentified viruses we can't prove they do).

    I've discussed John Chia's research before, and if you look at what he was doing, he used what he thought to be the most effective anti-virals and doesn't consider them specific enough. He's trying to develop better ones based on the nature of how these viruses act in PWC's.

    It's foreseeable we may need to switch off the genes, and treat the viruses as well... if they've been allowed to take hold this long.

    Second, what Mikie wrote about young people recovering and then relapsing... exactly my case.

    Same post-viral reaction when I was 19 (to chicken pox) that just suddenly zapped all my strength. I was able to use various therapies to recover and worked hard at maintaining my health. Next big virus at 22, same reaction without recovery (despite trying the same things). So I'd say that genetic malfunction was there the whole time. Hopefully for other young people, the research will come out in the not-too-distant future and once they recover, they don't have to worry about relapsing.
  6. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    I'm glad you posted that. This research seems to be so important. BTW, I just visited the Yahoo FMS website and it was filled with people selling and one guy soliciting money to get "stem cell treatment." Makes me appreciate this place all the more.

    Yes, there may well be viruses we have not identified. The biggest threat right now is the bird flu out of Asia. It can now only be spread from bird to humans. It will eventually mutate so that it can be passed from human to human. At that point, there is expected to be a pandemic. There is currently no vaccine.

    Tamiflu is the only treatment. There is a shortage of Tamiflu and the U.S. is way down the list to receive enough to be able to treat this deadly flu if there is an outbreak here. We can only pray that the mutation does not take place before there is enough Tamiflu to treat people all over the world for this illness.

    This virus causes pneumonia deep in the lungs and is fatal 55 percent of the time. Autopsies in birds show their lungs filled with fluid and blood. Don't want to be an alarmist, but this seems to be the next big threat on the horizon.

    Right now, the transfer factors seem to be very effective against the chronic viruses which are common to us. I know that the zapper works too against pathogens in the bloodstream.

    Love, Mikie
    [This Message was Edited on 09/16/2005]
  7. moonlightkitty

    moonlightkitty New Member

    Hi again Mikie :).
    The groups I'm talking about are CFSFMExperimental and CFS Research. And of course Co-Cure always has the latest updates.

    The trigger virus I had was really unusual, it doesn't fit the symptom patterns of the viruses usually named in CFS, but it wasn't like a normal flu either. So this has really raised my curiosity on what that could possibly have been.

    Here's another article on this. I really like the last part, about the urgent need for a 'human virome project'.


    Scientists Identify New Respiratory Virus

    NEW YORK (Reuters Health) Aug 22 - Using a general strategy for molecular virus screening, scientists have identified a new human parvovirus, provisionally named human bocavirus, in the respiratory secretions of children, according to a report in the August 22nd PNAS Early Edition.

    "Our approach and methodology are similar to that of the human genome project," Dr. Tobias Allander from Karolinska University Hospital, Stockholm, told Reuters Health. "Our finding of a rather prevalent previously unknown pathogen suggests that the screening is worth pursuing in a larger scale."

    Dr. Allander and colleagues used molecular virus screening to search for viruses in nasopharyngeal aspirates submitted for diagnosis of respiratory tract infections.

    Among seven viruses discovered in the first experiments, two had been uncharacterized at that time, including a group 2 coronavirus subsequently identified in Hong Kong and new sequences similar to known parvoviruses.

    The new virus is similar to bovine parvovirus and canine minute virus, two related members of the genus Bocavirus, the authors report. Consequently they propose the name "human bocavirus (HBoV)" for the new virus.

    The two isolates of the new virus differed at only 26 nucleotide positions, the report indicates, including 18 differences in the capsid gene.

    In a later series of screenings, 17 of 540 nasopharyngeal aspirates (3.1%) proved to be positive for HBoV, the researchers note, and in 14 cases it was the only virus detected. All 14 children with HBoV for whom records were available had respiratory distress of 1-to-4-day duration prior to hospital admission.

    None of the HBoV-infected children had gastrointestinal symptoms, conjunctivitis or rash, the results indicate.

    "We will of course perform additional studies on human bocavirus," Dr. Allander said. "However, in order to sort out the epidemiology, disease association, and other aspects of this infection, multiple studies from all around the world will likely be more important."

    "We have yet only studied one aspect of the infection, i.e., lower respiratory tract infection," he noted. "I would like to encourage scientists to investigate its relation to other symptoms."

    To identify other viruses, Dr. Allander explained, "we are working on a number of sample collections in collaboration with clinicians. However, we believe that the most fruitful future approach will be a broad and unbiased exploration of the viruses that infect humans, a 'human virome project.' We think such a collaborative project should be seriously discussed."

    "There are many diseases with unknown etiology, and some of them have similarities to virus infections. Therefore, virus discovery is an urgent scientific task," he concluded.
  8. Bruin63

    Bruin63 Member

    could this be the reason, I don't eat, and stay so skinny?
    I think this is something that I have had all my life, but was mis-dx with just GERD/IBS, because it took a long time for the IBD to be dx'd;

    I'm mainly tracking conditions, that I have that invlolve Inflammatory Symptoms, and there are more, than I could ever think of. I like this site, also because of the links to other condition's.
    Some I know I have, and others I wonder about.
    I have great Dr.s that always run test's for me, they too would like to know, why, this is occuring to me, and so many others.

    I have FMS, not CFS, but so many of the same Symptoms, it makes me wonder.
    Except that I understand that with the CFS, there is no major pain, just unrelentless Fatigue.
    I was told this by some Memembers that I meet a couple of years ago, I was very courious, as to the difference, in their experiences and mine.
    Two of the ladies had just CFS, and one of the others had both FMS/CFS, where I have FMS/CPMD. It was quite interesting, in being able to talk, face to face about the differences and the Similiarities.

    Anyho, this is another, condition, I know I have, and wonder if it's the cause of the weight loss. I do suppect Leaky Gut, aslo, one GI Dr. had mentioned it.


    Frequently Asked Questions About IBD

    How common are Crohn's disease and ulcerative colitis?
    There are about 10,000 new cases of IBD diagnosed each year in Canada. From the statistics to date, it would appear that the incidence of Crohn's disease is increasing. There are geographical and racial variations in the occurrence of both diseases for reasons that are not clear.

    Are these diseases infectious?
    Although the cause of IBD is unknown, neither Crohn's disease nor ulcerative colitis has been shown to be infectious. An infecting bacterium, virus, fungus, or parasite has never been demonstrated with any consistency. Thus, it is believed that these diseases cannot be 'caught' or 'given'.

    Are these diseases inherited?
    IBD is not hereditary in the classical definition of a hereditary disease. Thus, there is no predictability that a child of an affected parent will develop the disease. IBD is, however, a somewhat familial disease in that there is an increased occurrence among blood relatives. The chances are about one in twenty that some relative of a patient will also have IBD, either Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis.

    Do these diseases occur often in children and how does the course differ from that in adults?
    About 10 percent of those affected have onset before age 16. Unfortunately, the outlook is worse than in adults in that the complication rate is higher and surgery is required more often. Delayed growth and development may occur if the onset of disease is before puberty, as nutrient absorption can be severely impaired.

    Is anything known about possible causes?
    The cause or causes are completely unknown at present. There is considerable evidence to suggest that in some persons with these diseases, allergic-like reactions (antigen-antibody) occur in the tissues of the intestinal tract. This means that the body's defence mechanisms are operating against some materials in the digestive tract that they recognize as foreign matter. Exactly what initiates this reaction in the body (e.g. viruses, bacteria, food substances or other kinds of toxic agents) remains a mystery. What starts out as a defence mechanism, may then become the disease.

    Are these autoimmune diseases?
    The term autoimmune disease refers to any one of many conditions where the body's defence mechanisms appear to be attacking its own tissues, almost as though the body had somehow become allergic to part of itself. There are a number of features of Crohn's and colitis that resemble this type of auto-allergic or autoimmune reaction.

    These include:
    the young age of patients affected

    the appearance of the pathological changes in the intestinal tissues

    the associated complications that sometimes involve the skin or joints or eyes

    abnormalities that may occur in various blood tests, and

    the favourable response to certain "anti-allergic" drugs such as cortisone.
    It must be emphasized, however, that these so-called autoimmune features are really quite non-specific. The same features may be seen in a wide variety of inflammatory diseases, infections, and other conditions. To refer to Crohn's disease and ulcerative colitis as autoimmune should, therefore, in no way imply that the basic causes of these diseases are known or understood.

    Do Crohn's disease and ulcerative colitis have the same cause?
    This has been a source of debate for many years. Some feel that the cause is the same and that different types of inflammation are due to the different locations of the disease process. Others feel that they are two unrelated disease processes and share only the fact that they involve intestinal tissue. More research is required to clarify this important question.

    To what extent are Crohn's disease and ulcerative colitis psychosomatic diseases?
    Since no one knows the causes of these diseases, no one can say for sure what role psychological factors play. Most physicians today believe that emotional problems do not cause Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis. On the other hand, most would also agree that emotional factors may influence the course of the disease - just as they influence the course of most other chronic diseases.

    Can psychotherapy cure or at least help control these diseases?
    Since no medical cure is known and the clinical course of these diseases can be so varied and unpredictable, it is not possible to make any categorical statement about whether psychotherapy does or does not help. Some patients seem to benefit from psychiatric treatment while others do not. Perhaps a general rule to adopt is that if patients have emotional problems that seem to be affecting their health or otherwise disturbing their lives, then psychiatric help should be considered. If the help is successful, then the course of the Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis will often coincidentally be benefited. However, in no case should any patient receiving psychotherapy be deprived of medical care!

    What affect has Crohn's disease and ulcerative colitis on pregnancy and conception?
    The fertility rate among women who have Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis is essentially normal. The rate of spontaneous abortion is similar to that in the average population. The chances of having a normal child are also no different. In some patients, the illness worsens during pregnancy, while in others the illness might remain unchanged or even improve.

    What are fistulae?
    These are abnormal passageways between the inflamed intestinal tissue and some adjoining tissue or another segment of intestine. These sinus tracts are characteristic of Crohn's disease, particularly when connecting two segments of intestine or burrowing from the ileum to areas within the abdominal cavity. Complicated fistulae occur around the anus and rectum in Crohn's disease. Fistulae are not characteristic of ulcerative colitis, although they occasionally occur in the rectal region or between the rectum and vagina.

    Do people with Crohn's disease and ulcerative colitis develop cancer?
    Cancer of the small intestine, where Crohn's disease usually occurs, is an exceedingly rare disease. However, after many years of involvement with Crohn's disease, the incidence of cancer in the small intestine may be slightly higher than in the average population.

    More is known about the potential risk of cancer of the large intestine, or colon, as a complication of ulcerative colitis or Crohn's disease. The incidence is significantly greater than in the average population but usually occurs in those cases in which the entire colon has been involved for at least 10 years. This risk slowly rises above average after ten years of disease.

    What can be done to recognize cancer of the colon at its earliest stage?
    Those at increased risk (colitis of the entire colon for more than ten years) should have a colonoscopy examination of the colon that includes a biopsy, every two years, in search of early changes toward malignancy.
  9. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    I believe we are missing a big opportunity to discover a lot about human illness by not taking a bigger interest in viruses. For so many years, viruses were looked upon as just causing colds or stomach upset and going away. We now know that isn't true. There are different major classifications of viruses and each has different capabilities. All are capable of amazing adaptation and survival.

    If there is a pandemic of the bird flu from Asia, it will be six months after the outbreak before there is a vaccine. Tamiflu is in such short supply worldwide that most will not get it. It is the only known treatment.

    Scary stuff.

    Love, Mikie
  10. Bruin63

    Bruin63 Member

    This is on my Yahoo news, this morning thought you might like to read about it also.

    Bird flu epidemic could kill millions worldwide: experts Sun Sep 18, 4:36 PM ET

    Millions of people could die around the world if bird flu spreads out of control, and most countries are totally unprepared for such an event, the UN's World Health Organisation says.

    "If there was a flu pandemic tomorrow we would not be ready. The clock is ticking and when the pandemic strikes it will be too late," said WHO spokeswoman Christine McNab.

    Despite warnings at the United Nations by US President George W. Bush and French Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin calling for international cooperation to confront the "first pandemic of the 21st century", the international community was far from prepared.

    "There is very good momentum, but a lot of work remains to be done," McNab said.

    Of the 192 members of the UN just 40 countries had drawn up detailed plans for combatting an outbreak in humans of a mutation of the H5N1 virus which could, like the 1918 Spanish influenza pandemic, kill millions of people.

    For the WHO it is question of when, not if, the virus crosses over to a strain affecting humans, experts said.

    "The question is, 'When is it going to happen?' I don't think anybody has the answer to it... We have to be on the lookout for any time, any day," the WHO specialist on the virus, Margaret Chan, said in July.

    The United Nations has called on its member states to make preparations with a document entitled "Responding to the avian influenza pandemic threat: recommended strategic actions."

    Health professionals say an outbreak would appear in three phases:

    - the prepandemic phase, that needs to be countered by a sophisticated warning system and information sharing so as to detect the first changes in the virus's behaviour;

    - an "emerging phase";

    - the "declared pandemic phase" when the virus rages unchecked across national borders.

    "Since late 2003, the world has moved closer to a pandemic than any time since 1968... given the constantly changing nature of influenza viruses, the timing and severity of the next pandemic cannot be predicted," the WHO document says.

    The countries most at risk, with poorly developed health and veterinary services and a lack of laboratories, would be unable to cope or the undertake vaccinations or distribute required anti-viral drugs.

    "On present trends, neither of these interventions will be available in adequate quantities or equitably distributed at the start of a pandemic and for many months thereafter," the report says.

    Last month, the WHO warned that the current world production of some 300 million vaccine doses per year would be insufficient to cope with a pandemic and that it would be impossible to increase output rapidly.

    It has begun stocking vaccine, signing a contract with the Swiss pharmaceutical giant Roche for 30 million doses that could treat three million people.

    The organisation is also concerned about about the inequalities between the developed and underdeveloped countries: the former are better prepared, but it is the latter where the outbreak is most likely to occur.

    Ninety percent of global influenza vaccine production is located in Europe and North America.

    Since world leaders voiced concerned at the UN in New York, Italy has drawn up a 50 million euro program measures to both prevent and counter an outbreak and Canada has announced intentions to stage a global summit of health ministers.

    French laboratory Sanofi Pasteur on Thursday signed a contract with the US government to produce an experimental vaccine targetting the H5N1 virus.

    But the virus continues to claim lives: a 37-year-old Indonesian died Friday, taking to 63 the number of victims of bird flu since its discovery in Southeast Asia in 2003.

    I hope our Country, is getting ready for this next strain of Flu/Virus.
  11. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    People can get sick from infected birds; however, the virus has not mutated to the point where one human get become infected by another human. Once that mutation takes place, the pandemic begins and it will be fast.

    Countries have placed orders for Tamiflu and it's first come, first served. The U.S. is waaaaay down the list for getting it. There is very little supply here now.

    We are woefully unprepared for this.

    I believe it is possible that a pathogen can infect us, turn on our defective genes, leave the body, and still we remain sick. I also believe it is more likely that these pathogens go stealth in the body and continue to infect us.

    That was the case with my mycoplasmas and, according to Dr. Nicolson, is the case with all he has studied. Mycoplasmas take at least six months of treatment with antibiotics. Most never get that treatment when they are infected. I didn't. I got two rounds of ABX. It took 2 1/2 years on Doxycycline to get the mycoplasma infection under control.

    We know that Herpes-Family Viruses never leave the body. They go into a latent state. There have been a very few who have done antiviral treatments and afterward, there appears to be no virus left in the body, but this is not the norm. I continue to fight the viruses by pulsing my transfer factors. I pulse them a couple of days every six weeks. My Herxes are diminishing in severity and I am hoping this is a good sign that there are fewer and fewer viruses.

    Love, Mikie
    [This Message was Edited on 09/19/2005]
  12. moonlightkitty

    moonlightkitty New Member

    ... that the pathogen remains and continues to infect us. Your internist is simply wrong if they say that as an absolute; that in all cases there's no remaining pathogen. Look at the studies that have found enteroviruses in the muscles of CFS-ers.

    Mikie, did you read my post on the Lupus, okadaic acid & CFS/ciguatoxin connection? It was postulated a toxin in Lupus could reactivate old herpesviruses, and the NCF are saying their latest work in CFS is connected to that. Will find out more in the next newsletter - should be about 2-3 weeks time (I'll post on here once I get it).
  13. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    I think that a myriad of things can reactivate the Herpes-Family Viruses. That is what makes them so horrible. It is also why I continue to pulse the transfer factors to try to keep them latent.

    Love, Mikie
  14. Mikie

    Mikie Moderator

    When I started the Doxycycline treatments, my IBS went away and I no longer have it (knock on wood :) even though I no longer take the Doxy. I believe a lot of illnesses are caused by bacterial infections, including the IBS and RA. Some ulcers are now known to be caused by a bacteria, H-Pylori.

    Love, Mikie

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