vitamin D CFS, MP

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by illroy, Jul 14, 2008.

  1. illroy

    illroy Member

    There have been many posts here lately about vitamin D.

    I think taking high doses of vitamin D is the primary cause of my 38 years of CFS and in good conscience have to warn other patients.

    Hopefully this will not unnecessarily upset anyone, but due to the effects of vitamin D on the mind and body, the importance of the issues,

    the controversies surrounding it, and the many illness symptoms we all experience, some disagreement is likely inevitable.

    After being very sick for a very long time, I have been on the Marshall Protocol (MP) for four years.

    I have been reading about it on the very extensive MP study site, and also on all other related web sites I have been able to find, both pro and con.

    It has been a huge learning experience different than anything else I have ever gone through.

    Trying to explain it is kind of like explaining what it's like to have CFS. Some things just can't be adequately communicated, at least by me.

    I am not trying to convince anybody to go on the MP.

    That is not my way because I think everybody should make their own choices in life.

    The MP should be a very well considered decision between a patient and their prescribing physician, and perhaps others such as family members.

    Due to the increasingly extensive and time-consuming efforts needed from the volunteer nurse moderators to monitor and guide the increased

    number of patients on the protocol web site, the study cohort is now closed, and there is a waiting list to get on it.

    Doctors can still join the private physicians forum.

    I would strongly suggest that everyone spend enough time reading about the MP and the science behind it to be able to understand it somewhat;

    at least well enough to make your own decisions about a whole range of issues and especially taking vitamin D.

    There is also a lot of information about our illness on the web sites that is useful and interesting.

    I'm sorry, but there's no way to even come close to explaining it all here.

    I can certainly commiserate with having so much brain fog that it is extremely difficult to learn new things, especially with facts that contradict previous information.

    One of the useful things is the common foods that have been found to inhibit the innate immune system.

    After learning about and experiencing the MP, I can now understand how vitamin D wrecked my life.

    A mean basketball coach kept berating me because he thought I was too skinny, and he told me to take a lot of vitamins to gain weight.

    He was the high school biology teacher, and it didn't occur to me that there was any risk involved.

    Not that it makes any difference, but I have Dutch ancestry and was headed to 6'5" and 190 pounds.

    I was 13 at the time, and I started taking several multiple vitamins a day which had 400IU vitamin D each.

    I was also growing fast and ate a lot of foods with added vitamin D.

    A lot of foods in the US have had vitamin D added since it was synthesized in the 1940s, yet we have a massive epidemic of chronic diseases.

    I didn't crash with what is now considered sudden onset CFS (I prefer ME) until 1970 when I was 16,

    but I now understand the relatively subtle disease symptoms that were becoming evident before that.

    One of the first was beginning to lose my high IQ.

    In all the years since then I can remember times when I also unknowingly increased my vitamin D intake and it affected my health in the complex ways that this seco steroid works.

    It's sardonic that for me it was completely unintentional to be taking what I thought to be just an innocuous vitamin listed on multivitamins, etc.

    and hidden elsewhere while doing many other things that really are good for health.

    Six years ago I thought I was going into full remission, but I now realize that it was caused by

    once again unknowingly increasing my vitamin D intake to about 5000IU/day from foods and supplements.

    My activity level was better than it had been for many years, but it didn't last, and it was a long and very bad relapse that followed.

    I also realize now how it was affecting my body and mind to make me think I was doing better than I actually was.

    That is the deceptive effect that vitamin D has on so many people, and I have been through it.

    You can feel better temporarily due to it' s incredibly complex actions.

    The perceptible effects obviously vary between people.

    Many people have reported here and elsewhere that they have had little or no noticeable effect from taking vitamin D.

    Some report feeling worse. I really can't blame some patients who take vitamin D and feel better and want to help others.

    It is certainly understandable that people with good intentions who feel better from a treatment want to help others to experience the same.

    I would ask them to take the time to read about the bad effects of vitamin D.

    Many people have written erroneous things about the MP at various places on the net, and I would caution everyone to maintain a healthy skepticism.

    I don't mind most of the questioning of the Marshall Protocol.

    Healthy skepticism is good, but the unfair attacks are sometimes irritating for those of us on the treatment.

    That irritation is sometimes magnified by the symptoms experienced from the MP.

    It is tempered by the understanding that most people making those attacks are sick themselves with the cognitive and emotional symptoms that we all have to some extent.

    However, it is not pleasant to be treated in the same ways that CFS patients have always been treated-like we are lazy, crazy, and stupid,

    especially when enduring a long and difficult treatment that hopefully will benefit a huge number of people.

    I'm not a good writer, but I hope some people will take the time to learn about the incredibly complex science of vitamin D and make their own better informed decisions.

    I hate to think how many people are unknowingly taking something that I think in the long-term can be so harmful.

    Amy Proal, a CFS patient with a degree in biology who is on on the MP has written extensively about vitamin D among other subjects on

    She explains complex subjects about our illness in understandable layman's terms, and has done interesting and informative interviews with doctors, researchers, and patients.

    There are also videos on that web site and the MP site to help explain things, and links to countless published papers and articles.

    Her most comprehensive article on vitamin D is at

    There is also an article about a paper connecting vitamin D with brain lesions that I'm afraid some people won't like.

    The Vitamin D Council has done a surprisingly effective job of promoting huge increases in ingested vitamin D by presenting their side,

    often with tactics that are more marketing psychology than science.

    Science often progresses at a frustratingly slow pace, but even people who have nothing to do with the Marshall Protocol are starting to look into their rationale and finding serious problems.

    To reiterate, vitamin D has extremely complex effects that cannot be adequately explained on a web site like this.

    Simply taking more without spending a lot of time learning more about it is not wise.

    Even if you consider all the science that supports not taking it as just a hypothetical, please spend the necessary time to learn about the long-term consequences.

    This should especially be done by anyone advising others to use vitamin D. Isn't that the responsible thing to do?

    Unfortunately, some people have read about the issues and have decided that they understand the complexities involved.

    People have a saying around where I am from "they don't know as much as they think they know".

    It took me a long time to realize how incredibly complicated the molecular genomics of vitamin D are,

    and how vital it is for qualified, comprehensively trained people with extensive knowledge and experience in the relevant fields are.

    Anyone can read PubMed and use it to rationalize their speculations. It's sort of reminds me of using parts of the Bible or the Koran to rationalize anything.

    Some people may think that they can try taking high doses of vitamin D, or some other treatment that is known to suppress the innate immune system, and stay on it as long as it makes them feel better.

    Then they may think they can do the MP if they eventually decide to. There is a potential big problem with this.

    The Marshall Protocol is not quick and easy. It is long and hard, especially for people with a high pathogen load.

    Some people have found it too difficult and have stopped doing it, but if they had not progressed so far in their illness it would have been easier and much more likely doable.

    Again, the immunopathology (IP), also known as herx, can get strong mentally, emotionally, and/or physically.

    The irritability it can cause can make it quite difficult to respond to some people who are... less than kind and respectful.

    Some people have been just plain insulting and abusive towards MP patients.

    The problems can be exacerbated due to the limitations and failings of Internet discussion groups on the Wild Wild Web. Need I say more? :)

    I would like other people on the MP to be able to offer more information without being treated badly, which has sometimes happened here and elsewhere.

    The situation with some people reminds me of a few people who didn't believe CFS was real, and treated patients badly. And then they got CFS...

    Again, for the severely brain fogged, I'm sorry if this is hard to understand. I've been there, and it is beyond frustrating.

    CFS discussion web sites can be really confusing.

    Rereading good information when my mind was at its best helped me, and I used to use Post-it notes by the hundreds.

    I would suggest starting with:

    and then moving on to:

    If you can't find the information you need, you can ask questions and get more information at :

    I hope this helps at least one person.


    If anyone is wondering, I deleted and reposted this
    because the edit function wasn't working. :)
  2. Dlebbole

    Dlebbole New Member

    Hi roy, I do appreciate your post.

    It's certainly a timely topic given how much we are hearing about D deficiency in the media right now.

    I can't research it now, but I have your name on my list so I can look at it later.

    BIG thanks for putting in so many spaces - when I do get the time, I will be ABLE to read it. :)
  3. ladybugmandy

    ladybugmandy Member

    i guess vit D is bad when you have bacteria but good if you have viruses...? you cant seem to win!
  4. JewelRA

    JewelRA New Member

    I really appreciate your well-thought out and kind post. I really have mixed feelings myself about vitamin D and all the pros and cons I have read. I've also been on extremely high doses myself (per a doctors orders) and wonder if it has helped or harmed me.

    Could you give some specifics about how it made you feel?

    My MIL was just started on high doses of vit D a few months ago, and now she suddenly has diabetes! I don't know if they are connected or not!
  5. MamaDove

    MamaDove New Member

    Thanks Roy for posting this information...

    I cannot seem to get this post out of my mind...

    A 'protocol' that prohibits the ingestion of Vitamin D?

    Talk about confusing...

    I cannot wrap my brain around the Marshall Protocol (not for the lack of trying)

    All aspects must make sense to me to prove a theory...This does not, to me...

    Jam and myself seem to focus on D3 in our conversations here and I am now wondering if/when others that have ill effects are supplementing with D, what products, what strengths and which D vitamin are you taking?

    I would have to hear each personal experience before I could make a decision here (not that my opinion matters to anyone but myself :))Again, I am just confused here...

    Something else caught my attention...Taking high doses of D and soon after developing diabetes...Connection, if any, could it be due to the 'additives' in the supplement...

    Remember, today we *think* we are taking supplements such as D, C, Fish Oil, etc...Does everyone KNOW what else is in these lil pills?

    I have always chosen NOW brand supplements due to that very reason...Less of the crappy additives and the ability to research where the ingredients came from...I like that!

    Brands of supps like WalMart sells are 'likely' to have fillers that will almost always have negative effects on our well-being...That's common sense to me...

    Fish oil coming from China must contain Cipro, the powerful abx, which runs the risk of causing diabetes, peripheral neuropathy, etc...

    I must say, I was surprised someone finally replied to this post, I had seen it yesterday and the day before and just couldn't stop thinking about it...I really need something else to do ;)

    Very good topic and to see others experiences and 'opinions' gives food for thought, whether we agree or not...We must do what's best for us...

  6. imagma

    imagma New Member

    Here is my experience, if anyone is interested...

    My daughter and I both have struggled for years with fibromyalgia and CFS. We also both jumped on the vitamin D bandwagon supplementing with pills, oils and high D content foods.

    I never felt it made any difference for me but, looking back, this supplementation just preceeded, and continued along with, the multiplication of my diagnoses!!!

    My daughter did have some symptom improvement with the extra D but she found she needed ever increasing (mega) doses to get any benefit. Eventually, she had a total collapse and became completely disabled.

    I hope others can be helped by our experiences in regards to using D as a treatment. It's not all roses.

  7. JaneSmith

    JaneSmith New Member

    My thoughts only. Vit. D. should be taken seriously like medicine. Get a blood test to see if one is deficient prescribed by the doctor. Doctor reviews, tells patient how much to take, slowly at first monitoring, then keep up the blood work to make sure the correct vit. D level is obtained/maintained. Anything taken wrongly is obviously not good for anyone or (dogs). It really is not that hard. And do remember if you have hyperparathyroid problems, that could alter the vitamin D levels.

    Warmest Regards,

  8. illroy

    illroy Member

    I appreciate the kind responses.


    I'm glad you will be able to read it; that's why I reposted it without the original long paragraphs.

    One of the strange things about going through this treatment is that some symptoms that I never thought I would forget...I sometimes forget, and that is one of them.

    When adjusting text with the Internet browser wasn't enough, I found copying and pasting text into a wordprocessing program and enlarging it in Arial bold font was a big help.

    As you might guess, there is a lot of discussion on the MP web sites about the large amount of uncritical (so far) media coverage of vitamin D supplementation.


    The MP hypothesis is that the immune system is impaired in its ability to fight viruses. I had at least a couple herpes cold sores every year since I was

    21. (I wish I'd never kissed that girl, and she was a nurse!) I haven't had even a hint of one for three years now.

    Do you know why you should never kiss a parakeet? You might get chirpes. That's a dreaded canarial disease, and there's no tweetment for it...


    I'm not sure I can do a good job describing the symptoms I had on high vitamin D doses. I wasn't really very aware of them at the time. It was subtle

    overconfidence, aggressiveness (very uncharacteristic for me), pushing myself harder than I should have been, and things like that.

    Since I was also gaining muscle mass , getting a lot of things done, and just feeling better after a previous prolonged relapse, I guess I was in denial

    that other things were happening. I was going to one of the top CFS specialists at the time, and we were both perplexed about what happened.

    Vitamin D affects an incredible number of things at a molecular level, and I have to leave that to others who are better qualified to explain.

    Diabetes is one of the biggest epidemics involved. If you use the search function on the MP web site, you can find more information.

    I don't recall if there are any specific articles about it yet on


    I have read many of your posts, especially the ones on vitamin D, and I want you know that I think you are a good person trying to help others, but I'm

    worried about the long-term effects of the high doses of vitamin D that you have been taking. Several days ago you wrote that some symptoms

    that it was helping had come back to some extent. That is what I would expect to eventually happen.

    I don't know if 50,000IU of D2 would have any significantly different effects than 28,000IU of D3.


    I commiserate on the confusion. :) Some things seem counterintuitive about "vitamin" D.

    I haven't had any significant sources of vitamin D for four years. My 25D is <4 which is basically undetectable and what it optimally should be on the

    MP, but my 1, 25D is 45, which is the upper
    limit in the Merck manual. I am producing more than enough of the hormone, and that is what other MP patients report.

    There are studies of populations that do not have vitamin D added to their diet. The 25D levels are below that considered healthy by many vitamin D

    experts who say they are deficient. But they are healthy, and that to me is counterintuitive.

    Joyce Waterhouse is a CFS patient with a Ph.D. in science and is on the MP and the MP research team. She has a web site with an article about the vitamin D and brain lesions paper at:

    AmyProal has an article " Duke University researchers connect vitamin D with brain lesions "

    Thank you. I wonder if I'm the only one that took such high doses of vitamin D without knowing it. I was getting about 3000IU just from canned herring.

    It seemed like the thing to do at the time. Ignorance is not bliss.

  9. dtj

    dtj New Member

    ........and return home.

    She has been on the protocol exactly the same amount of time as you.

    Recently, her progress reports have become hidden from general access. As a long time practioner can you give us an update.

    Many of us have used Barbs progress as a standard for the protocol.
  10. mrlondon

    mrlondon Member

    Hi - I spent several years researching the claims of the MP, and have created a web page about what I found. I try to keep it updated. See:

    <a href=""></a>

    I recently added information about new studies that show that blocking angiotensin II (which Benicar does), can have suppressive effect on the innate immune system.

    - Mark
    [This Message was Edited on 07/17/2008]
  11. marti_zavala

    marti_zavala Member

    Can someone help me?

    I am kinda brainfogged due to a supplement.

    I think I read somewhere (this post?) that there is a common pathogen that uses Vit D (as fuel or for replication). So we may be deficient but supplementing it is only making the pathogen stronger?

    I can't remember where I read this (I am also on another board).

    Was it on this post (I scanned it again and didn't see the reference) or was it on a recent post, like the last two weeks.

    Roy, I appreciate your calm, gentle approach and your courage for bringing up an issue that is very important and you could have gotten slammed for it. Thanks, we all want to know what could harm us.

  12. illroy

    illroy Member


    Aussie Barb is having an unusually long and difficult treatment journey. She is making slow progress
    from being very ill, and is progressing on the

    antibiotics schedule. I admire her for being one very tough lady. Her earlier massive amount of helping other patients affected her health, IMO. I'm not sure

    why you are having problems reading her updates. They are in the Phase One Alumni Forum on the main MP page as they have always been, all 60 pages. Her last one was a week ago.


    It's your choice what to read and what to do.


    I'm not sure exactly what you are referring to, but I can't give you a simple answer. I would suggest for an overall understanding.


  13. illroy

    illroy Member

    I am familiar with your web page. These parts especially got my attention:

    "If fear of light can be a factor in photophobia, then it seems possible to us that if someone believes in the MP's theory that light was harmful, then this

    belief could lead to a fear of light. Perhaps this by itself would not lead to photophobia. However, it might be a significant factor, if this fear is also

    combined with the avoidance of sunlight and wearing NOIR glasses. These two actions would seem to likely cause the eyes to be less accustomed

    and more sensitive to bright light. Exposure to bright light would then become uncomfortable, so that this physical response, combined with the fear

    of light, could be a strong enough trigger to provoke photophobia and neurological symptoms."

    "Given this very strong expectation by patients that negative effects on the MP are a good sign, one wonders how often it is that reported "herxing"

    symptoms, are actually perceived symptoms. It is well known that placebos can cause side effects in people, a phenomena known as the placebo effect.

    If people can experience side effects from a placebo, how much more likely might such negative effects occur, if such effects are believed to be a good sign?

    This is not to say that the effects which people are experiencing are not real. However, because they are told that their symptoms will get worse, they

    could simply be concentrating more than usual on their symptoms, and thus end up believing that they have become worse. Or they could be having a

    flareup of their symptoms for other reasons. Whatever the case, there simply is no way of truly knowing whether reported negative effects are real or not, given the power of expectation."

    I've must say I've never seen so much speculation on any subject anywhere in my entire life. The way you misstate some things about the MP and then

    argue against them leaves me shaking my head in wonderment.

    Although I am sorely tempted to respond explicitly, I don't think it would alter your opinions, and there are other things I need to do.

    My opening statements on this thread stand. I would trust others to make up their own minds about your attitudes.

    Unfortunately, I have already seen your web page used on an unrelated web site as "proof" that the whole MP is false.

    Maybe someone else will choose to respond to you more.


  14. mrlondon

    mrlondon Member

    Hi Roy - First off, it's hard to read your posts, since your sentences are constantly broken up with empty lines. Secondly, you misquoted from my webpage. You said "It is well known that placebos can cause side effects in people, a phenomena known as the placebo effect." In my web page, the last 2 words are "nocebo effect". I suggest you might want to read about that effect, as it explains why people get side effects from placebos.

    You also said "The way you misstate some things about the MP". I wasn't aware that I did that on my web page. Please tell me what things are incorrect, so that I can correct them. Thanks. - Mark

    [This Message was Edited on 07/20/2008]
  15. winsomme

    winsomme New Member


    i first want to say that i appreciate access to information. i like to digest info and make decisions for myself based on having the most info possible.

    and there definitely is some info on your site that is interesting to me. for instance, i think i will ask my DR to check my PTH levels and aldosterone just to see how the MP is affecting those levels...

    i am sort of an interesting case in that i have tried the MP once before for a six month period and am now (several years later) giving it another go.

    a mixture of life situations and lack of clear, rapid response to the MP are the reasons that i abandoned it the first time around.

    and reading the ever expanding testimonials at is one of the reasons that i decided to give it another look. it is hard to argue with success. and when you have people discussing in detail their recoveries from at a condition like CFS that has no accepted treatment for recovery, it is impressive.

    some other interesting things happened in the years between my time on the MP.

    first, my DR continued to monitor my Vit D levels even when i was no longer on the MP. the interesting thing is that once off the MP, my Vit D 1,25 level went back to being high (reaching 70 pg/mL) while my 25-D level remained low (for the most part being below 10ng/mL)

    i think at one point on your site you mention that we don't know if the 1,25 level is dropping due to Vit D restriction or the Benicar. well, at least for me, it is clear that my subsequent reduction in 1,25-D levels was due to the Benicar because my 25-D level was already low prior to restarting the MP.

    second, in the time that i was not on the MP (which was about a 3 year hiatus), i tried going back on a combination of meds that had helped me in the past. it was a chronic Lyme treatment that consisted of Plauquenil and Biaxin.

    the interesting thing is that about three or four days into the treatment i began having extreme worsening of my CFS symptoms. to the point where i couldn't even stay on the meds.

    these were meds that i had already been on for long periods of time previously with absolutely no similar reaction to. and the one main difference that i could isolate was that THIS TIME my 25-D levels were much, much lower. plus, when i took the P+B treatments the first time around, i took them with a full glass of milk!!! isn't that crazy....

    i'm sure at this point, you are starting to create the alternative explanations for my anecdotes (and hey you may be right in those alternatives), but the coincidence is striking...

    anyway, the long and the short of it is that other than trying to regain my health, i have no agenda. and while i do find much of the info on your site interesting, it does to me seem like there is a certain determination to "debunk" the MP.

    and personally, i think you would be better served if your motives didn't seem so negative towards the immense effort that the MP staff is undertaking.

    surely, on some level you must recognize:

    a) the amount of effort that is required in doing what they are doing.

    b) that the number of people who are saying that they are recovering on the treatment is hard to simply dismiss.

    it's strange because at some points on your site you do acknowledge that the treatment may be working but that it might not be working in the way that it is theorized.

    you often refer to the helpful things that Benicar may do, yet still seem to condemn it's use in the MP protocol.

    anyway, i do want to acknowledge that you have put out a great deal of info on your site, but i just wish it didn't seem like it was trying to undermine the efforts of the MP. (as Roy pointed out there are other sites that are using your site to argue that the MP doesn't work)

    i think without the contentiousness, your information and effort could be more constructive - especially for people with CFS who are trying to understand what the heck is going on in their bodies.

    for me, it is pretty clear that there is something to the bacterial/immune dysfunction/VDR ideas....what exactly that is at this point i am not certain.

    and it is a scary path to head down. and i think you could very easily be a help to PWCs looking into this stuff whereas now it kinda feels like since you are in this heated debate with the MP that it makes the whole things just more anxiety riddled...

  16. illroy

    illroy Member

    Thank you. That was a well written post, and I hope Mark will take it to heart.

  17. mrlondon

    mrlondon Member

    Hi Bill - My webpage doesn't deny that the MP can be helpful to some people. So I don't understand why you think I need to change it. What my web page does is to point out the flaws in the theories of why the MP helps, such as by showing that the theories contradict what is known in the medical literature. My webpage also presents alternative theories of why the MP helps, based on the medical literature. If you think there is any negativity on my webpage (and I'm not sure what exactly you're talking about), it might be due to the fact that I get a bit irritated when anyone presents theories as proven facts, when they are not.

    As for why you are noticing worse reactions to the antibiotics at lower levels of 25(OH)D, a vitamin D researcher's response would probably be that the immune system is over active, due to the lack of vitamin D. Some researchers might also suggest that the lack of vitamin D has increased your bacterial load, and that is why you have worse reactions to the antibiotics.

    You might want to read some of <a href="">Dr. Grants's papers on PUBMED.</a>

    Also, here is one of his web pages:

    <a href=""></a>

    - Mark

  18. winsomme

    winsomme New Member

    i guess what i was getting at was that reading the site i felt kinda like you were determined to "debunk" the MP as opposed to simply present information.

    i mean, even if you are perturbed by the MP presenting something as fact that hasn't been proven, you must realize that the possibility still does exist that the MP actually is right.

    you have presented many alternative theories for why different elements of the MP may be working or helpful (and i appreciate that like i said), but it is still possible that the MPs explanations of those elements are the right ones.

    as for your explanations about why i reacted to the Plaquenil + Biaxin combo when i had low 25-D level whereas i hadn't previously (ie overactive immune system and/or increased bacterial load due the the low 25-D), certainly possible.

    except i would point out three things:

    1) on the overactive immune system front, both Biaxin and Plaquenil have known have anti-inflammatory action. infact Plaquenil is used alone to treat autoimmune conditions due to this action.

    2) while i did experience some lessening of symptoms on my first go round with the B+P (when i was taking both meds twice a day with a full glass of milk), i really did not improve that much over the course of the treatment (more than a year).

    3) while my 25-D was low, my 125-D level returned to being high. so, my 125-D was high both when my 25-level was normal and low.

    anyway, time will tell.

    personally, i wish you would add to your list of considerations that (while you obviously have found many alternate theories for why the MP may be helping) maybe the MP framework is the right one...

    but let's keep discussion going and try our best to support each other in the process and remember that the ultimate goal is to get better.


    [This Message was Edited on 07/23/2008]
  19. winsomme

    winsomme New Member

    i have just been reading some of the Vitamin D studies. one in particular was about an association of periodontal disease and low 25-D levels.

    it's frustrating that these studies don't also measure 125-D levels...
  20. hopeliveshere

    hopeliveshere New Member

    Hi All,

    I was once very skeptical of the Marshall Protocol. In fact, it took me a year to research it. Once I started reading the science it made sense to me like nothing else had...yet still I had some skepticism.. but I decided I didnt have anything else to lose as I could NOT live the way I was...

    Now, I can say I am living no longer with depression (suicidal at times) Which I've had since a child. Anxiety is no longer a problem for me. I can drive without going into a panic attack. I love life so much more! My fatigue and brain fog is GREATLY improved and getting better each month.

    The MP is long and can be difficult at times but it has given something to me that I never knew I would have...a chance at recovery ...OH yes I tried EVERYTHING else and NOTHING no NOTHING compares to the success I already have on the MP.

    So if you want to be well and you want to know what is going on in your body...please look into the MP science. Read everything you can get your hands on at the MP site and

    If your scared or skeptical you can watch and wait...

    Sincerely from a health professional and fellow ex- suffer of lyme disease, fibromyalgia, depression, anxiety, ...and much more....