Vitamin D Supplementation Could Be Harmful

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia Main Forum' started by Andrew111, Jun 26, 2009.

  1. Andrew111

    Andrew111 Member

    You can read this research by searching Google for: Vitamin D: the alternative hypothesis

    The article states:

    • Prevailing theories of vitamin D are imprecise and suggest
    contradictory understandings of vitamin D metabolism.

    • 25-hydroxyvitamin D is immunosuppressive.

    • Supplementation of the secosteroid vitamin D temporarily
    alleviates signs and symptoms of chronic disease but leads to a
    long-term increase in morbidity.

    • Molecular biology suggests that low levels of 25-D are a result
    rather than a cause of the autoimmune disease process.

    • A microbiota of bacterial pathogens may survive in the human body
    by secreting proteins that antagonize the VDR and disable the
    innate immune response.

    • Elevated levels of 1,25-D exist at the site of disease and are an
    indication that the innate immune system is responding to an
  2. sydneysider

    sydneysider Member

    My doc has just told me to take a D supplement. I am lowish, but not deficient. I think I'll just take cod liver oil. It has vit D, and should be pretty healthy.
  3. Andrew111

    Andrew111 Member

    Hi Sydneysider,

    I just emailed a copy of my summary and a copy of the PDF to my doctor. That way we can discuss Vitamin D the next time I see him.
  4. ladybugmandy

    ladybugmandy Member

    i agree with kjm

    vit D is an important antiviral and the reason it is depleted in CFS for some of us, in my opinion, is because of viral infection.
  5. TigerLilea

    TigerLilea Active Member

    It would help if you at least quoted the source of your information.
  6. TigerLilea

    TigerLilea Active Member

    Cod liver oil is very high in Vitamin A, therefore, it isn't the best choice to be taking when trying to boost your Vitamin D levels. Be careful how much you take as it is possible to take too much Vitamin A and that is dangerous.
  7. mrlondon

    mrlondon Member

    This anti-vitamin D theory/treatment has been around for years, without any valid proof. It's nothing new. Several years ago I wrote a very detailed web page pointing out the flaws in the treatment:

    Also, here's another web page that someone sent me.

    - Mark

  8. Andrew111

    Andrew111 Member

    Hi. I did quote the source. The bullet list I posted is copied and pasted from the source. I also included the exact title of the study, so people can Google search it.
  9. dannybex

    dannybex Member

    He is almost an almost thoroughly discredited man (not a doctor) whose 'hypothesis' has harmed the lives of hundreds, if not perhaps thousands of desperate patients around the country. One woman I know almost went into kidney failure, others were close to it, yet they casually dismiss these life-threatening situations on the MP site.

    I would humbly suggest that you google "The Vitamin D Council" and "Marshall" or "Mercola" and Marshall Protocol" where you'll find posts from many people, some who even used to work with Marshall, who have come forward to warn others of the potential dangers of his 'hypothesis'.

    And if you'll check Amy Proal's website (the other author of the hypothesis), you'll find that it's now okay to go out in the sun!

    Three or four years ago, he instructed everyone to not only cover up completely when outside, but also when INDOORS, wearing hats, long coats, and goggles.

    It may help those with sarcoidosis, but even those patients (including Marshall) are still on the MP drugs after 5-6-7 years. What would happen if they stopped? It seems like they're all too afraid to do so...

  10. mrlondon

    mrlondon Member

    One of the pillars of the marshall theory is that 25(OH)D blocks the action of 1,25(OH)2D. He makes this claim based on his interpretation of a computer simulation. No vitamin D expert has expressed any similar theory. I've asked vitamin D experts about such computer simulations, and they say that they mean nothing unless backed up by some actual lab study. No actual lab study has been done to confirm this theory. His theory goes against the beliefs of every world wide vitamin D expert.

    Have you ever wondered why some very smart people believe in theories that are not supported by real facts, and goes against what the rest of the world believes? I suggest you look up the phrase "cognitive dissonance".
  11. AuntTammie

    AuntTammie New Member

    My brother has sarcoidosis and currently lives in Fl and is an avid surfer.....gets a ton of sun (& vit D). He has lived in several different parts of the country and ONLY feels well when in sunnier and warmer places. His health was terrible in the places where he was not getting much sun. While he may be some rare exception, I highly doubt it, and he certainly seems to disprove the marshall theory, even for its original use.

    I also know that I feel horrible when I do not get sunlight, and I felt much worse when my vit d levels were too low. I currently get lots of sun and have optimal vit d levels. My fatigue has been awful the last couple of months, but everything else has been substantially better with the sunlight.
  12. kjfms

    kjfms Member

    Is this the article you summarized? I have capitalized some key words in this article because from what I am reading it is [hypnotized and not fact - just my own opinion.]


    Weill Cornell Medical College, New York, NY 10065, USA.

    Early studies on vitamin D showed promise that various forms of the "vitamin" may be protective against chronic disease, yet systematic reviews and longer-term studies have failed to confirm these findings.

    A number of studies have SUGGESTED that patients with [autoimmune diagnoses] are deficient in 25-hydroxyvitamin D (25-D) and that consuming greater quantities of vitamin D, which further elevates 25 D levels, alleviates autoimmune disease symptoms.

    Some years ago, molecular biology identified 25 D as a secosteroid.

    Secosteroids would typically be expected to depress inflammation, which is in line with the reports of symptomatic improvement.

    The simplistic first-order mass-action model used to guide the early vitamin studies is now giving way to a more complex description of action.

    When active, the Vitamin D nuclear receptor (VDR) affects transcription of at least 913 genes and impacts processes ranging from calcium metabolism to expression of key antimicrobial peptides.

    Additionally, recent research on the Human Microbiome shows that bacteria are far more pervasive than previously thought, INCREASING the possibility POSSIBLITY that autoimmune disease is bacterial in origin.

    Emerging molecular evidence SUGGESTS that symptomatic improvements among those administered vitamin D is the result of 25-D's ability to temper bacterial-induced inflammation by slowing VDR activity.

    While this results in short-term palliation, persistent pathogens that MAY influence disease progression, proliferate over the long-term.


    I do not think that my Vitamin D deficiency is the cause of my Fibromyalgia Syndrome however I do think that my level of 12 has made me more ill than I should have been.

    I have had slow improvement (energy and basically feel somewhat better) with prescription Vitamin D but but is has not help with my pain from FMS.

  13. rockgor

    rockgor Well-Known Member

    I don't spend any time doing research. Haven't the energy.
    And my computer is somewhat recalcitrant anyway.

    Seems like there is a counter opinion for every finding. All too
    bewildering for one w/ brain fog and Alzheimer's.

    My own (anecdotal) experience for the last couple years is that
    Vitamin D3 and the B12 patch have lessened my depression. Have
    not given me more energy, however.


  14. mrlondon

    mrlondon Member

    This most recent 2009 article by the MP is very similar to a previous one written the year before. That one was heavy criticized in letters to the journal, by other researchers:

    In fact, I found a ton of errors in it myself, that were not mentioned by those researchers. I posted those on my web page.

    Note that the newest article continues to claim that their treatment uses a vitamin D receptor agonist, never mentioning that this so called agonist is Benicar. It's been claimed by the MP for years that Benicar is a VDR agonist, but that has never been proven in a real lab test. It would be an amazing to discovery if Benicar could be used as vitamin D receptor agonist, without interfering up calcium metabolism (like most real vitamin D receptor agonists), but this claim has not been recognized by medical professions (or by medical companies, who could benefit financially from this effect, as they are spending tons of money to find a good VDR agonist).

    It'll be interesting to see the letters written about this most latest article.

    All the MP theories continue to mainly be based on computer simulations. Some years earlier the author of the MP used similar simulations to claim that statins affect vitamin D receptors, but that turned out to be false by a real lab test. Ironically, he was even criticized by a researcher who earlier had theorized that statins do act like vitamin D. He was quoted as saying that the MP author “is perhaps over-optimistic in suggesting that modern molecular biology can give precise answers to questions about actions of drugs because knowledge is inevitably incomplete.”

    All you have to do is to read the latest news about vitamin D via google news, to see what everyone else thinks about vitamin D:

    Unfortunately, vitamin D is unlikely to help many people who have fibromyalgia pain. There's only so much that vitamin D can do! :( It most likely only helps people who have pain from osteomalacia or muscle weakness, that is the result of a vitamin D deficiency. Or it might help people who have inflammatory immune diseases, such as RA, where vitamin D might help reduce the inflammation. - Mark

    [This Message was Edited on 06/28/2009]
  15. jarjar

    jarjar New Member

    You guys can bash the MP all day but I have had MAJOR improvement with it so I can only laugh at some of these post.
  16. mrlondon

    mrlondon Member

    Benicar is a powerful drug with many great benefits. Antibiotics have helped a lot of people. Plus, people on the MP often recommend dietary changes and supplements that can also help, such as quercetin. So it's no wonder to me that some people do get better from it. But it still doesn't validate the MP's vitamin D theories. The effects from Benicar and antiobiotics could be offsetting the negative effects which come with reducing vitamin D. I've also described this on my web page. - Mark
  17. Andrew111

    Andrew111 Member

    Hi kjfm. As I mentioned in my first post, The article I am quoting is: "Vitamin D: the alternative hypothesis." A hypothesis is a statement by researchers about what they believe will turn out to be true ofter exhaustive testing is completed. A hypothesis is usually based on observation and/or previous studies, but it is not the same as a conclusion. IOW, the researcher is not claiming proof.

    I think the way to use this information is the same way we understand warnings about pharmaceuticals. They seem to help people, and doctors recommend them. But we also know that pharmaceuticals can have short of long term negative side effects. Some are so bad they are pulled from the market. Others persist and most people find them very helpful. In other words, this is just one more heads up about the possible side effects of a pill going into the body. The fact that it is natural, doesn't mean that taking it as a pill or liquid is not without problems.
  18. kjfms

    kjfms Member

    Are you speaking to me or kjm?

    I am kjfms.

    You have lost me. I didn't ask for a definition of hypothesis and frankly I was not disagreeing with anything. By the way you are allowed to post an informational site here.

    Heck, when I Google your title the are several sites that come up and I have read a few but none with what you have - that is the reason I asked if I had the right article.

    I guess I am going to have to change my screen name or just quit this board completely. I give up...

  19. jarjar

    jarjar New Member

    whenever I get too much sun I have to go crawl back in bed as the fatigue starts setting back in so for me the Vita D thing with the MP is way on target.
  20. AuntTammie

    AuntTammie New Member

    you wrote, "whenever I get too much sun I have to go crawl back in bed as the fatigue starts setting back in so for me the Vita D thing with the MP is way on target."

    that does not necessarily mean that vit D is the culprit.....many people with CFS and FMS are very sensitive to light (and noise and other sensory input)....I am glad that you are having success with your treatment, and you could be rt - I am just saying that there could be other reasons for your response, too

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