Discussion in 'Spirituality/Worship' started by windblade, Mar 27, 2009.

  1. windblade

    windblade Active Member

    Hi Vivian,

    I've been pondering about how to answer your post on how to pray, since I first saw it. I see that you are a social worker, and so familiar with psychology.

    There is a wonderful, wonderful book by Ann and Barry Ulanov called 'Primary Speech : A psychology of prayer'. Ann Ulanov is a senior Jungian analyst, and Barry Ulanov teaches and lectures on psychiatry and religion.

    I've just read the first parts through again, trying to see if I would recommend it for you. I do! I have been in therapy for PTSD for many, many years - and most often my religious self was not acknowledged or welcomed there. Which left out a very strong and active part of me. This book was such a healing for me, a bringing together of my whole self. It is so rich and deep, I have been reading it - going back to it for years.

    I'm so excited that you might try it! When you said that you are searching for God, and have invited him into your life, you can be sure he has come, and will find ways to show himself to you. Many ways!

    I pray in many different ways. I am a Christian from a family - part Protestant and part Catholic. I speak to God about everything - from every area of my psyche. I pray the great prayers that others have written - I whine when I'm tired or sick. I ask God constantly to know him better - it doesn't all come at once. I always go back to who Christ is, when I'm confused about God. Because in all the years of my life - in my 50's now - I have never seen anything to disappoint me in who he is.

    vivian - I would consider it an honor just to share with you, as you move along on your quest/journey. I know for sure that God has heard all of your prayers, and rejoices in you - in who you are, and knows you better than any depth psychologist can. haha

    If you decide to try that book, would love to talk about anything in it too. I really highly recommend it.

    Keeping you in my prayers,

  2. vivian53

    vivian53 Member

    I was about go log out when I saw your post, and I'm glad I did. Thank you so much for taking the time to explain to me the way you pray and what you pray for.

    I think the book you have advised me to read is right up my alley. I used (use) many things I learned from studying Carl Jung, in my practice, my volunteer work and in my life.

    I am glad I still have the Amazon gift card my son gave me for Christmas so I can buy all these books. I have ordered one Tiggy suggested, Julie suggested and Jam suggested. I will get to the others, I am a voracious reader and will give up my Dean Koontz for this.

    Speaking of you Jam, thanks for posting. I always like to hear your ideas. Thanks for the suggestion about God (gods). I understand where you are coming from but I just can't pray to the sun. I KNOW at least that is not for me. I am trying to narrow what I believe down, and that is out for me lady. <g> Hope you are having good luck right because I am sending lucky vibes to you right now.

  3. vivian53

    vivian53 Member

    I know that was just an example. I am trying to find a Higher power I can believe in though. I have heard that in Al-Anon some people who are atheists are able to work on step 2, "came to believe that a Power greater than themselves could restore us to sanity", use toilet seats or light bulbs as their Higher power. I want to REALLY feel I have a Higher power to turn things over to and that kind of stuff just won't cut it with me.

    So anyway did you win? My mother played bridge for years, I read recently it keeps the mind agile.


  4. bigmama2

    bigmama2 New Member

    hi V
    maybe you could use- "the 12 step group/community" itself as your higher power???

    or-- "the universe" or "the good of the universe"

    and of course you could always change it to "god" if you ever feel moved to do so

    and V i have a question for you- if too personal then just ignore it- are you in a 12 step program to helpl you deal with someone you love who is an addict of some type? my question is- is going to al anon meaning that you yourself have an addiction? i dont understand why people who love an addict have to go to a 12 step program themselves, unless it is to deal w codependency issues??????

    take care
    bigmama2[This Message was Edited on 03/27/2009]
  5. windblade

    windblade Active Member

    You're welcome! It's great that you have a spectrum of books chosen to read. I'm a totally voracious reader too, and my husband and I love sharing ideas from our latest books.

    Am I right in thinking that your volunteer work is with abused children - or have I got that wrong? My husband works for a group called CAP, (Child Assault Prevention) where they go to schools, and put on skits and teach children to protect themselves from bullies, and from harmful strangers, and are encouraged to speak about being hurt at home too.

    I love that he does this work!

    Will keep you in my prayers,
  6. windblade

    windblade Active Member

    Al-anon was one of the things that helped a close friend of mine to get her life back together again. So glad it's helped many people.
  7. windblade

    windblade Active Member

    Have enjoyed your posts very much on your love of nature!
  8. vivian53

    vivian53 Member

    Hi Bigmama2 and thanks for the Higher power ideas. I can use the good of the universe one, and I will do that at my meeting this afternoon.

    Thanks for your info too Jamin. I think you must be much more self confident than I am. I am tired of struggling by myself all the time in my head, if that makes any sense. I think it would be wonderful if someone or something, not of this earth, could help carry the burden. I am glad you feel that you, yourself, is enough and you do seem happy with your choice. I really do understand how you feel and why you have come to the conclusions you have.

    No Bigmama2 I don't mind any questions. As I have said before my life is an open book.

    About 6 years ago my husband died. I was left living in an unfinished house with two children, one of them chronically ill and disabled. I was (am) sick myself. I was devastated.

    One of my husbands friends came over frequently to help me, and lo and behold, after a couple of years we found that we were in love. He is a such a good man, sweet and kind, and so very good to me.

    He works in the oil field, 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off, so I wasn't aware of his drinking problem. He did not drink around me.

    He has since "quit" drinking except for relapsing about 4 or 5 times a year. He is dry, not sober. I didn't want to leave him but was (am) having trouble with the times he does drink. He gets so drunk he can't talk, stays at his son's house overnight, sometimes without calling to let me know where he is.

    I have no control over his behavior, only mine.

    I want to continue to live with him without letting his drinking effect the way I feel and think. I knew Al-Anon would help me adjust my self talk so that this was the case and I would have the fellowship of folks in the same boat.

    I have to stop myself from wondering when it will happen again, what I may or may not have done that might set him off etc. Stinkin' thinkin'.

    I don't have substance abuse issues myself although I have been known to partake in the past. I used to love the occasional Margarita, but can't drink one no because of my meds. Darnit!

    I guess this could be defined as codependency. BUT I am not going to let these episodes ruin our happiness.

    If his drinking increases then I will have to re-evaluate my situation.

    For now I am content with this relationship.

    Jamin I can veer off course too. As far as that pill goes, I have often thought that would be for me too someday.....but that's a whole other can of worms.

  9. vivian53

    vivian53 Member

    Yes Sassy2, that is a beautiful prayer. We say that at the end of every Al-Anon meeting. We use the "tresspasses" version.

    I did my graduate work and taught for several years at a Catholic university. They use the "sin" version. It all means the same.

  10. vivian53

    vivian53 Member

    It sounds like you have a wonderful husband. Helping our children can help change the world, one child at a time. He works in prevention, empowerment, soooo needed. I deal with after the fact. I believe that if some of the children had had his kind of help they could have had an earlier "outcry" and some of the damage done to them could have been avoided.

    Poor babies, or as we say here pobrecitos. I will soon get an extremely complicated case of a baby, who is brain dead and on life support due to brain damage from abuse. She will never be off life support. The regulatory department here will not, or can not, make the decision to help her die.

    They are waiting for someone to adopt her and then the new parents will have to make that decision. How an adoptive person or family can be found that is willing to help this baby I just don't know. I really can't grasp it yet. I have a lot of thinking and soul searching to do so that her best interests are represented to the court. Gut wrenching. I cry about it and I haven't even been assigned yet.

    When I do you can bet I will come here for support and prayers, lots of prayers, from everyone in every form. I hope this is not too much tragedy to bring to the board. If it is I will understand.

    Not everyone can stomach this kind of work. Talking and thinking about it is not pleasant. I am one of those that can, and for that I am grateful.

    I know that doing good works alone will not get me into "heaven", but will sure help those in need in the "here and now."

    Again if this is TMI, I apologize. I don't want to bring anyone down or upset them.


  11. windblade

    windblade Active Member

    What a horrible grief - this poor child. I will start praying for her now - and for the decisions you will need to make.

    I pray for the children when my husband goes into a school - for them to be helped. The CAP motto is "SAFE, STRONG, and FREE". I love that children are hearing this.

    Your sharing of this extremely important part of your life - and the children you are helping definitely belongs on this board! The more love through prayer for these children the better!

    Your work is priceless, Vivian. I know that many others here will care, and strengthen you for your work.

    I'm glad you shared all that you did,
    [This Message was Edited on 04/01/2009]